Rashek's Immortality

[The Grumpy Elantrian]

As we know, TLR used compounded feruchemical atium to drastically increase his lifespan.

As I've come to further understand the nature of compounding, I've begun to wonder whether he would ever have run out of age?

Would he not be able to say, wear an atium ring, tap a fair amount of age from his existing atiumminds, fill said age directly into the ring, swallow the ring and burn it multiplying the amount stored, then rinse and repeat? This would theoretically give him unlimited age as long as he still had some age stored somewhere. 

If I've gotten anything wrong or my understanding of compounding is flawed, then please let me know. Otherwise, I welcome your thoughts. 

[+Invocation]

Theoretically, as long as he had atium, he would never have run out of age to keep himself going. The question would be if he would have, which might be a no, since he did seem weary towards everything in TFE.

[The Grumpy Elantrian]

2 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Theoretically, as long as he had atium, he would never have run out of age to keep himself going. The question would be if he would have, which might be a no, since he did seem weary towards everything in TFE.

Would he have enough atium do you mean?

[+Invocation]

Just now, Mistborn Radiant said:

Would he have enough atium do you mean?

No, if he would have chosen to keep Compounding. Though now that I think about it, he probably wouldn't have a had a choice after multiple exposure's to Preservation's power at the Well.

[The Grumpy Elantrian]

Just now, Invocation said:

No, if he would have chosen to keep Compounding. Though now that I think about it, he probably wouldn't have a had a choice after multiple exposure's to Preservation's power at the Well.

I doubt he would have just given up and let himself die. He seemed a very determined man and, despite his immorality, one who was still trying to save the world. I think he would have seen that he was the best bet for humanity to survive and would have stuck around to help out. I mean, imagine what a thorn in the backside he'd be for ruin. Capable of taking on entire armies, more powerful than any of the inquisitors. Possibly even powerful enough to take on all of them (not only did he have the full powers of a mistborn and a feruchemist and thus the ability to compound, but he also did something to himself when he ascended and made himself a ridiculously strong allomancer).

And either way, he likely intended to capture Ruin again, then wait out the next thousand years and repeat. 

[+Invocation]

2 minutes ago, Mistborn Radiant said:

I doubt he would have just given up and let himself die. He seemed a very determined man and, despite his immorality, one who was still trying to save the world. I think he would have seen that he was the best bet for humanity to survive and would have stuck around to help out. I mean, imagine what a thorn in the backside he'd be for ruin. Capable of taking on entire armies, more powerful than any of the inquisitors. Possibly even powerful enough to take on all of them (not only did he have the full powers of a mistborn and a feruchemist and thus the ability to compound, but he also did something to himself when he ascended and made himself a ridiculously strong allomancer).

And either way, he likely intended to capture Ruin again, then wait out the next thousand years and repeat. 

Yeah, that was his plan, but it's quite possible he would have trained a successor at some point. After all, living that long would be rusting tiring, even for an ultimate Fullborn.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Invocation

[The Grumpy Elantrian]

Just now, Invocation said:

Yeah, but it's quite possible he would have trained a successor at some point.

That's true. I hadn't considered him ever having a successor, but that may be a potential explanation for the left over lerasium bead he had? Perhaps he would have eventually have had a child? It's a cool thought. 

[+Invocation]

1 minute ago, Mistborn Radiant said:

That's true. I hadn't considered him ever having a successor, but that may be a potential explanation for the left over lerasium bead he had? Perhaps he would have eventually have had a child? It's a cool thought. 

I just thought of something. That's the reason he was killing Feruchemists. The only solid bloodline for them would have been through him, then, allowing him to choose when to have a successor that can be guaranteed the same amount of power as him.

[The Grumpy Elantrian]

3 minutes ago, Invocation said:

I just thought of something. That's the reason he was killing Feruchemists. The only solid bloodline for them would have been through him, then, allowing him to choose when to have a successor that can be guaranteed the same amount of power as him.

That's a good point. And considering his power, it's likely his child would be an incredibly powerful allomancer at least, as well as likely being a feruchemist. No need to breed with another feruchemist to ensure that power. It's a good theory. 

[+Invocation]

6 minutes ago, Mistborn Radiant said:

That's a good point. And considering his power, it's likely his child would be an incredibly powerful allomancer at least, as well as likely being a feruchemist. No need to breed with another feruchemist to ensure that power. It's a good theory. 

Reckon I should ask the man himself about it via Reddit or something?

Edited October 6, 2018 by Invocation

[Calderis]

Rashek had children. 

Quote

Argent

Did the Lord Ruler have children? Either as Rashek or as the Sliver of Infinity?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

source

He once considered give up his rule. 

Quote

Chaos

Did the Lord Ruler's children have something to do with the Lord Ruler's plot to once "give up" in the Final Empire?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

source

Rashek's children are not anyone special. 

Quote

Little Wilson

Have we seen any of them [Rashek's children] in Era 2?

Brandon Sanderson

Any of the Lord Ruler's descendents?

Little Wilson

Yes.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes...

Little Wilson

Where?

Brandon Sanderson

It is not necessarily... Um... I'm not gonna answer that.

Zas678

Is it-- Are they just descendants in the same way that, you know, after two thou-- after thirteen hundred years they're all descendants?

Brandon Sanderson

You will-- They're not all, but there's a lot of them, percentage-wise. So it's not like you're...

Zas678

Specially just kind of...

Brandon Sanderson

You're looking for something that's not really there. I'll go ahead and tell you that. There are descendants of the Lord Ruler. But it's not like they have some secret coven or anything like that. At least--

Zas678

The Illuminati!

Brandon Sanderson

At least, you know, there are-- there are-- How should I say? It's not outside of reason that there are people who are descendants of the Lord Ruler who are part of a coven or something. But you know what I'm saying?

Zas678

Yeah, it's not like... super secret magic power society.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, mhm.

Zas678

There could be a group of people who are like, "We're so much better."

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

source

As to the OP, you got how compounding works for age down, all accept for one thing. 

Age is recorded in the Spiritual, so he had to be constantly compounding and tapping. If he'd stopped, he would have aged to dust like he did after Vin removed his bracers... Because he was over a thousand years old. The amound of age he had to tap was ever increasing, and eventually, that would overcome even the ability to compound. 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Calderis

[The Grumpy Elantrian]

6 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Rashek had children. 

He once considered give up his rule. 

Rashek's children are not anyone special. 

As to the OP, you got how compounding works for age down, all accept for one thing. 

Age is recorded in the Spiritual, so he had to be constantly compounding and tapping. If he'd stopped, he would have aged to dust like he did after Vin removed his bracers... Because he was over a thousand years old. The amound of age he had to tap was ever increasing, and eventually, that would overcome even the ability to compound. 

I see, thanks for the clarification. Although I'd disagree that his children were nothing special. Sure his descendants weren't, but that's a few hundred years down the track. His children would presumably still have had some sort of power? We know that the stronger the allomantic bloodlines the stronger the allomancers and higher chance of breeding allomancy. Surely after his ascension, no one had a more powerful bloodline than he and his children would have presumably had mistborn powers. They may not have gone on to do anything significant, maybe they became inquisitors or something, but I wouldn't say they 'weren't special' because we don't really know that. 

[Calderis]

Its Rashek. We also know that Feruchemical and Allomantic genes interfere with each other. And that Rashek didn't want Feruchemy genes being passed on. 

I have no clue what happened with his children, so yes I probably overstated it, but I doubt they were even allowed to know about their feruchemical potential (if they had it). 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Calderis

[Spoolofwhool]

5 minutes ago, Mistborn Radiant said:

I see, thanks for the clarification. Although I'd disagree that his children were nothing special. Sure his descendants weren't, but that's a few hundred years down the track. His children would presumably still have had some sort of power? We know that the stronger the allomantic bloodlines the stronger the allomancers and higher chance of breeding allomancy. Surely after his ascension, no one had a more powerful bloodline than he and his children would have presumably had mistborn powers. They may not have gone on to do anything significant, maybe they became inquisitors or something, but I wouldn't say they 'weren't special' because we don't really know that. 

Actually, his children would probably be weaker than someone born to just a lerasium mistborn as the allomancy and feruchemy genes would probably degrade each other quickly due to the potency of each. Also, it's not confirmed that he had children after he became the Lord Ruler.

[Yata]

Rashek's Atium compound could not last forever, soon or later his ability to produce Youth will be not enough for the amount of Youth he need.

Of course this is a moot problem as probably he would turn himself truly immortal with the Well at the next chance.

[Tglassy]

The way Brandon answers those questions about TLR's children makes me think that many of the Metalborn we meet in the books are actually descended from him. If you think about it, he made what, 12 Mistborn from his friends? 9?  I can't remember.  But there are a lot of them around, and it wouldn't be inconcievable that he had his own bloodlines through the ages.  If you are a Misting or Mistborn, and you got your power from one of 13 people in the ancient past, and the families have been interbreeding for a thousand years because they're not allowed to breed with any of the rest of the population...well, it stands to reason that many, many people have Rashek as an ancestor, even if he stopped having kids 500 years ago.  

Edited October 6, 2018 by Tglassy

[Spoolofwhool]

29 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

The way Brandon answers those questions about TLR's children makes me think that many of the Metalborn we meet in the books are actually descended from him. If you think about it, he made what, 12 Mistborn from his friends? 9?  I can't remember.  But there are a lot of them around, and it wouldn't be inconcievable that he had his own bloodlines through the ages.  If you are a Misting or Mistborn, and you got your power from one of 13 people in the ancient past, and the families have been interbreeding for a thousand years because they're not allowed to breed with any of the rest of the population...well, it stands to reason that many, many people have Rashek as an ancestor, even if he stopped having kids 500 years ago.  

No, The Lord Ruler making mistborns and the head of noble families out of his friends was a lie. His friends became the First Generation of kandra, while the origins of the noble family allomancy was due to him bribing the kings of countries with lerasium in exchange for serving under him. 

[Tglassy]

Yes.  Because that disputes my point in some way.

 

It doesn't matter who he gave the Laresium to, he only gave it to 12 people.  

[Calderis]

5 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

Yes.  Because that disputes my point in some way.

 

It doesn't matter who he gave the Laresium to, he only gave it to 12 people.  

9. We have 11 beads accounted for. 

9 to the kings he swayed with it, and the two for Elend and Hoid. 

[Tglassy]

That's what I meant.  

[Spoolofwhool]

3 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Yes.  Because that disputes my point in some way.

 

It doesn't matter who he gave the Laresium to, he only gave it to 12 people.  

I think it's highly unlikely that Rashek would've had any children after ascended, which is why I think his children were from before he became TLR. Doing so would've counteracted all the effort he put in originally to suppress feruchemy by turning all the Terris feruchemists into mistwraiths. I doubt that anyone can really claim any relation to him.

[Yata]

11 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

I think it's highly unlikely that Rashek would've had any children after ascended, which is why I think his children were from before he became TLR. Doing so would've counteracted all the effort he put in originally to suppress feruchemy by turning all the Terris feruchemists into mistwraiths. I doubt that anyone can really claim any relation to him.

Some terrismen could be long descendants of him, of course his directs children need to be not Feruchemist (to be saved from the Mistwrath turning).

For a while I toyed with the idea of someone in the Kandra Comunity to be originally one of TLR's children, but the Mistwraiths don't live enough to be part of the second gen

[+Oltux72]

At some point he would have been compounding 24/7, even if he had enough Atium.

[Yata]

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

At some point he would have been compounding 24/7, even if he had enough Atium.

Yeah and if he would not change the method to obtain immortality for that point, he would probably start to use other little tricks to gather the needed youth like using Durallumin to burn the storage faster or make multiple peoples store youth for him messing with Identity to access to their Atiummind too.

But honestly, he need only to keep compounding for 2-3 years... He could use the Well to become fully immortal if He wishes.... At this cycle of the Well, he had time to design the Well's power usages and exploit the Ascension 

[+Child of Hodor]

Brandon has confirmed it was getting harder to maintain the same level of youth and that it could only work for so long. 

 

Quote

A Memory of Light Raleigh Signing (Feb. 20, 2013)
#5 

Questioner (paraphrased)

Why did the Lord Ruler have to stay aged at times?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

That's when he was doing his rebuild. He didn't really have to, but he let himself. He has to recharge periodically, and then stays on a higher and higher burn over the thousand years. It gets harder and harder. The way the magic works—he doesn't have to stay aged.

Questioner (paraphrased)

Is he burning or tapping?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He's tapping.

 

Quote

#53 

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Feruchemy is about multipliers. The more the Lord Ruler aged, the less "multiplier" he could store in his metalmind. And the more he aged the more he would need to Compound to stay alive. There could exist an upper bound to the amount of time the Lord Ruler could survive off this trick.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Child of Hodor