Email List and Submission Dates

[Aspiring Writer]

To confirm, i have a slot, right?

[Snakenaps]

Just now, Aspiring Writer said:

To confirm, i have a slot, right?

@Silk will confirm us for slots once she has a moment. I would assume she's busy. I know she's PST time, if that helps, so it is still fairly early in the evening for us. 

[Silk]

4 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

one, you didn't ping me for some reason, don't know why, and two, yeah, will be on it.

Yep, Shard sometimes decides that it just doesn't want to ping someone in a post, @ symbol or no. No solution that I've found. Good to go for this week, then, just making sure you're aware and it's on your radar.

@Snakenaps Seeing no objections, I think you're okay for this time.

For context for our newer members: we generally try to stick fairly close to our 5000 word limit. Occasionally, when someone has a chapter that's close-ish, you'll see someone ask to submit something that's a few hundred words over if they really don't have a logical place to split it up, at which point we usually just do an informal vote in the thread here. 6200 words is well above where we'd normally ask someone to split, but November is generally a quiet month and comments from the rest of the group so far have said they're okay with it. But, be aware subs of this length are the exception, not the rule

[Snakenaps]

19 minutes ago, Silk said:

@Snakenaps Seeing no objections, I think you're okay for this time.

Thank you! I won't make a habit of it. 

20 minutes ago, Silk said:

But, be aware subs of this length are the exception, not the rule

Absolutely. For the newcomers, pretty much the only time I have ever seen this exception given out is when agents have given a deadline. So, I am lucky to have hit a quiet time and have put in the hard work to have support for this rule breaking. 

[Aspiring Writer]

@Silk Okay, cool. I am fortunately way under the word limit compared to my previous sub, so that should even out with Snake. And just to confirm, you said every chapter I sub needs a critique or every sub I do need a critique? Because if it's by chapter, I need to do four, but by submission I need one.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Aspiring Writer

[Snakenaps]

8 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

And just to confirm, you said every chapter I sub needs a critique or every sub I do need a critique? Because if it's by chapter, I need to do four, but by submission I need one.

Don't overthink this part. Essentially, the idea is that you give back the time that people are putting into your work. This group doesn't work if people only submit and don't critique, right? Think of it like school: we're essentially switching papers to grade. Only, you hit the week where the overachiever wrote a really long essay. Whoops.

You could attempt to match word counts. You subbed 3,400 words, so you could chose to only critique one of my chapters. But one of the skills that this group can teach you is how to see mistakes and learn how to avoid them in your own writing. 

I'm a teacher. All I do is look at mistakes, right? Yet, I have been critiquing every week since I joined in February (with a short hiatus when I changed jobs and stopped subbing and critiquing) and I can positively say that critiquing has by far taught me so much about editing and looking at a manuscript objectively. It has seriously helped me with my revision, and hopefully with future writing. 

Like with anything, the time you put into this community reflects what you take out. It depends on what you want. I have gained invaluable input on my story, yes...but I have also gained an incredible group of friends, a wealth of knowledge and advice, and connections for future cons. 

So, again, don't overthink this. You can put in the bare minimum (and that might be all the time you have for, I completely understand) or you can go over and above. Me? If I'm subbing (and generally even when I'm not), I critique everything that was submitted, when it be one short submission or four 5,000 submissions. It takes a chunk of my time, but I love it so I prioritize it. 

In true Katie fashion, I ranted instead of answering shortly XD my apologies. Hope this answered your question. Thanks for asking for clarification. It shows a lot of responsibility on your part, which I appreciate. Wish my students would do that. 

[Robinski]

15 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

I still would be subbing one chapter at a time if @Robinski hadn't gotten on my case.

Hey, hang on there. Am I getting the short end of this?  

  I don't mind reading +6,100 words in a week when there are only two subs.

10 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

And just to confirm, you said every chapter I sub needs a critique or every sub I do need a critique? Because if it's by chapter, I need to do four, but by submission I need one.

Like @Snakenapssaid, we like to keep it simple. If you make a sub, critique at least one other submission*. Some of us like to crit all the subs, even when we're not subbing ourselves, but that tend just to be the senior members, who have invested a lot of time in keeping the group active and vibrant (I trust!). There's no obligation to cvrit more than you sub, but do return at least one crit every time you sub. It's okay, IMO, to build up some good will by 'storing' some crits, or to promise to crit back in a couple of weeks, as long as you do.

43 minutes ago, Snakenaps said:

You could attempt to match word counts. You subbed 3,400 words, so you could chose to only critique one of my chapters.

Oh, please, no. That's way too complex and scary! (Although......maybe I would get to do a spreadsheet. Hmm...)

I think this is a better way to look at it. If you sub one week, you are hoping to get, what, three, four, five crits? I think it's fair to look at giving that much back. E.g. if all the slots are full and you get five, six or seven crits on your work, the really fair thing to do would be to crit the work of the other people who subbed that week.

Another point: if I subbed, and there was someone's work that I found it troubling to read for some reason, I certainly would not expect them to crit my work if I was not critting theirs. What if they then critter my stuff? I think I'd feel obliged to read their work and give them an honest opinion on why I didn't like it. Because, I'm nothing if not honest, as you might have noticed  

In summary, fairness is the key thing. I think if you do what seems fair everything will be fine. The number of people kicked from the group for not critting in my time here (7.5 years) is I think one, maybe two. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Robinski

[Snakenaps]

30 minutes ago, Robinski said:

In summary, fairness is the key thing. I think if you do what seems fair everything will be fine. 

Completely agree. 

Thanks for explaining better than me! 

31 minutes ago, Robinski said:

It's okay, IMO, to build up some good will by 'storing' some crits, or to promise to crit back in a couple of weeks, as long as you do.

I've done this. I had to take three weeks off back in March when I was trying to figure out what the hell was going to happen with the schools and Covid. Came back and did three weeks worth of subs. It was hilarious, because by the time I was done, it was ALL Snakenaps for like a dozen threads. 

33 minutes ago, Robinski said:

Hey, hang on there. Am I getting the short end of this?  

I would like to point out I specifically told you you didn't have to read Draft Three considering the hours you put into Draft Two. You're the one who decided to keep critiquing, you madman. 

[karamel]

1 hour ago, Snakenaps said:

 I can positively say that critiquing has by far taught me so much about editing and looking at a manuscript objectively. It has seriously helped me with my revision, and hopefully with future writing.

I second this after only just reading the first page of @Snakenaps most recent sub! I noticed a specific word being used a lot but then went and looked at my own stuff and realized that I had the same amount of usage of this word. The word was "had" btw... had.... I noticed the word had. What a magical word that I had never noticed before. Is "had" even a real word?

[Snakenaps]

27 minutes ago, karamel said:

I noticed a specific word being used a lot

Absolutely! Funny how critiquing makes you notice these things! For me, I never realize how often I used seemed, off of, and felt. The first couple of drafts were overwhelmingly, "She felt her feet move" "he took the cookie off of the table" and "the clouds seemed the color of a bruise." I also never realized how much I used passive voice before joining RE. Now I try to always remember to test my verbs with "by zombies" to see if they are passive or not. 

We should probably move any non-submission topics over to the proper channels. I am notoriously bad at this and trying to get better. 

[Robinski]

4 hours ago, karamel said:

The word was "had" btw... had.... I noticed the word had. What a magical word that I had never noticed before. Is "had" even a real word?

 

[Robinski]

3 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

I am notoriously bad at this and trying to get better.

How's that going?

 

[Snakenaps]

9 minutes ago, Robinski said:

How's that going?

 

You're not helping

Edited November 23, 2020 by Snakenaps

[shatteredsmooth]

6 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

You could attempt to match word counts. You subbed 3,400 words, so you could chose to only critique one of my chapters. But one of the skills that this group can teach you is how to see mistakes and learn how to avoid them in your own writing. 

 

I've learned just as much from critiquing as  I have from getting feedback. 

 

15 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

And just to confirm, you said every chapter I sub needs a critique or every sub I do need a critique? Because if it's by chapter, I need to do four, but by submission I need one.

The group functions better if people do more than the bare minimum. With a few exceptions, if I don't have time to read all the things people are submitting, then I won't send submit my own work. The exceptions are if there is an ongoing story I just don't like for personal reasons and don't feel like I can give objective feedback, or if it has content I'm not comfortable reading or may find triggering. 

[Silk]

20 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

And just to confirm, you said every chapter I sub needs a critique or every sub I do need a critique? 

 

4 hours ago, shatteredsmooth said:

The group functions better if people do more than the bare minimum.

Yes exactly. For every submission of yours, you need to provide at least one critique of another's work to participate. No hard and fast rule beyond that. That said, as @shatteredsmooth said the group definitely functions better when everyone does more than the bare minimum; we encourage everyone to participate as fully as possible, but we recognize that it's not always possible.

[karamel]

is it too early for me to ask for a spot on 11/30?

Spoiler

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by karamel

[Snakenaps]

May I please have a slot for Monday, November 30th?

[Aspiring Writer]

Same here.

[Silk]

On 11/26/2020 at 9:15 AM, karamel said:

is it too early for me to ask for a spot on 11/30?

Not at all! Looks like we have @karamel, @Snakenaps and @Aspiring Writer for Monday.

[kais]

I'd like a slot for Monday I think, please

[Snakenaps]

May I have a slot for Monday, December 7th?

[ginger_reckoning]

could i tentativtel y have a slot for monday?

...and if I did would it be okay if I did a little sequence breaking? 

[Aspiring Writer]

Request for Monday slot.

[Robinski]

10 hours ago, ginger_reckoning said:

...and if I did would it be okay if I did a little sequence breaking? 

That's entirely up to you, @ginger_reckoning. If you get the slot, you're free to submit whatever you like.

[Silk]

Almost full with @kais, @Snakenaps, @ginger_reckoning and @Aspiring Writer for tomorrow.

And yes, @ginger_reckoning, totally fine - submit what you think will be most useful to you.