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Cosmere Endgame Predictions


goody153

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The ghost of  Kelsier appears and tells all the heroes to "Go Beyond the Impossible and Kick Reason to the Curb!  Your investiture is the investiture that will pierce the heavens!"  And then they become a mecha the size of the cosmere and throw a galaxy at Odium to overcome him with the power of their determination!

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13 hours ago, Leyrann said:

Uhm, the in-world 17thshard is actually named after us, implying the name may have been taken simply because it sounds good.

In addition to Calderis' note, I would like to add that even if the 17th Shard in the Cosmere were background-named after the website, the in-Cosmere explanation for the organization's name would have to be different. So why would an in-Cosmere organization name themselves "the 17th Shard"? IDK but my guess is that they have some degree of Shard-level power.

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45 minutes ago, Ripheus23 said:

In addition to Calderis' note, I would like to add that even if the 17th Shard in the Cosmere were background-named after the website, the in-Cosmere explanation for the organization's name would have to be different. So why would an in-Cosmere organization name themselves "the 17th Shard"? IDK but my guess is that they have some degree of Shard-level power.

I think the only thing that has the power level of a Shard, is a Shard... 

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Just now, Calderis said:

I think the only thing that has the power level of a Shard, is a Shard... 

Then do the 17thS represent an Intent, maybe? Like a hypothetical alternate Shard, one that the Shattering could have produced but did not? Do they have a Shard-like Connection to Adonalsium? There's gotta be something to it...

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Dude. The 19th hole of a golf course is the clubhouse where golfers go to drink after a game. It’s not actually a hole. It’s not part of the game. Calling themselves the 17th Shard just means they dont work for any of the shards. It means they’re outside the normal structure. It doesn’t mean they have the power of a Shard. Unless they are made up of people who have access to the power of all the Shards and are trying to create a new shard using the combined power of all the others. We know they have an Elantrian and an Atium Misting, after all, among others  

 

Hmm. Would an Atium Misting be considered Preservation because they’re using Allowmancy, or Ruin because they can only burn Ruin’s physical Investiture?

Edited by Tglassy
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15 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Dude. The 19th hole of a golf course is the clubhouse where golfers go to drink after a game. It’s not actually a hole. It’s not part of the game. Calling themselves the 17th Shard just means they dont work for any of the shards. It means they’re outside the normal structure. It doesn’t mean they have the power of a Shard. Unless they are made up of people who have access to the power of all the Shards and are trying to create a new shard using the combined power of all the others. We know they have an Elantrian and an Atium Misting, after all, among others  

Ya, it could be as simple as them having an Intent (in the literal and non-technical sense) that does not align with any of the 16 Shards

 

15 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Hmm. Would an Atium Misting be considered Preservation because they’re using Allowmancy, or Ruin because they can only burn Ruin’s physical Investiture?

Nah, Id call them a Ruinous thing, since the Atium burn is the only one that actually taps Ruin's investiture instead of Preservations.

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22 hours ago, Tglassy said:

Dude. The 19th hole of a golf course is the clubhouse where golfers go to drink after a game. It’s not actually a hole. It’s not part of the game. Calling themselves the 17th Shard just means they dont work for any of the shards.

OK but where did these people get the idea that they could defy or disagree with Shards from? Unless they're similar to a nonviolent resistance movement, I feel like they would have been organized around/with figures of great power, who could protect them from Shards who would interfere with the non-interference policy. Either that or at least one Shard favors noninterference too and is a back-up for the group, though then it would seem like the group would then be, say, the 12th Shard (if the one in question was the 12th on some relevant list). I mean I know non-golf clubhouses could also be named after imaginarily numbered golf holes but there's at least a decent chance that there's a semantic relationship between the average clubhouse named like that, and the question whether that clubhouse is part of a golf course.

EDIT: All Investiture was assigned to the Shards, so if the 17th Shard uses Investiture at all, they have to depend on a Shard or Shards for that purpose. Maybe there are several Shards who are members of the 17th (that would possibly be ironic). The alternative is that the 17thS, if they have enough power to "enforce" their policies, have non-Invested equipment that can accomplish this. Not exactly an example but the First Gem (if this is indeed part of the "weapon made to fight Adonalsium") represents the possibility that artifacts can be forged by entities on a lower level than the highest Shardic-ranked entity, but still with power to affect the higher-ranked (I call Adonalsium "Shardic" in the sense that the Shard concept is derivative of our concept of him, as it were). That is, it is possible for non-Shards to have power commensurate with Shards unless the Vessels used Investiture to kill Adonalsium.

Edited by Ripheus23
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On 10/7/2018 at 4:56 PM, Calderis said:

I think the only thing that has the power level of a Shard, is a Shard... 

I don't necessarily think this is the case, but would we consider a group possessing knowledge of the method of Adonalsium's shattering as having the same power level as a shard? 

The only thing I can think of is that they consider the prevention of further intervention an "intent", then the 17th Shard is specifically a non shard in just the sense that they have no loyalty to a specific shard. I do think it is interesting that each member we have seen all have power sets from their individual home planets, and I wonder in the end how deep that pattern will go. (A collection of 'magic users' from every shards influence? What would the end goal of that be?)

My last thought on this is that the 17th shard is just a collection of Easter egg characters based on Brandon's real life friends, and may not have any bearing on the greater story. I'm probably wrong here.

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1 minute ago, Solant said:

I don't necessarily think this is the case, but would we consider a group possessing knowledge of the method of Adonalsium's shattering as having the same power level as a shard? 

The ability to Splinter  shard or shatter Adonalsium couldn't have required equal or greater power. 

Yes, yes, "knowledge is power" but that's not what I'm talking about at all. 

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You don’t need a shards permission to use their power. Brandon has been very clear on that. A shardholder cannot deny someone who has legit access to their power. Preservation can’t keep a Mistborn from burning metals. Odium can’t keep a voidbinder from using void light.  

 

So, if the 17th Shard is made up of people who have access to all types of Investiture, they could be trying to MAKE a 17th Shard that is the combination of all the Shards. 

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20 hours ago, Ripheus23 said:

OK but where did these people get the idea that they could defy or disagree with Shards from?

Most likely? They took the name 17th Shard upon themselves and none of the Shards was bothered by it enough to tell them off for it.

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14 hours ago, Tglassy said:

So, if the 17th Shard is made up of people who have access to all types of Investiture, they could be trying to MAKE a 17th Shard that is the combination of all the Shards. 

Why is Rayse hostile to other Shards as such, and why does the issue of a pact about settlement have a place in this? The only explanation I can think of is that the Shards have a natural tendency to start reforming into Adonalsium, or at least reforming into a supermassive perpendicularity (so to speak), or whatever like that. Hoid is a possible example of someone who is copying/advancing/w/e this process by collecting samples of powers from different systems, but so does Mraize seem to be doing such a thing, whereas I think the 17th Shard might be against such merging per se.

Maybe they have a police-like role under the Shards. Since 

15 hours ago, Tglassy said:

You don’t need a shards permission to use their power. Brandon has been very clear on that. A shardholder cannot deny someone who has legit access to their power. Preservation can’t keep a Mistborn from burning metals. Odium can’t keep a voidbinder from using void light.

... then maybe the 17th Shard was appointed to try to interdict people from using Investiture contrary to the will of the Shards. That is, Odium for instance can't block Voidlight but maybe the 17th Shard could, just enough to prevent at least some individuals from "unregulated" usage?

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