Stones Unhallowed 10.5% Accurate Predictions: Kaladin

[Confused]

Well, 10.5% is better than my usual track record…My Stones Unhallowed Kaladin predictions:

 

At WoR’s end, our hero is about to fall towards Hearthstone. Dalinar has asked Elhokar to approve a requisition of emerald broams while acknowledging that Stormlight has become a scarce resource. The Everstorm is moving around the world at a slower pace than the Highstorms, so Stormlight may replenish itself before the Everstorm arrives. We don’t have a clear idea of when either Storm will hit.

 

I think Kaladin will decide not to enter Hearthstone as a KR and instead will stop short of the town and just walk in. He is unsure of his reception from Roshone and others, especially given how parochial and superstitious Hearthstone is. Many (most? all?) of its residents think the KR betrayed humankind. He also anticipates his return may initially shock his parents (assuming they’re both alive and well – BIG assumption) and won’t want to give them more than they can handle at once. Kaladin will also want to conserve his Stormlight as much as he can. He may even cache his spheres outside of town to ensure their safety and make it impossible for him to accidentally draw upon them and inadvertently glow.

 

It’s unclear to me whether a KR’s natural eye color returns when he is completely drained of Stormlight, Because Kaladin himself won’t know, Shallan will give him Tyn’s “brown-eyed” solution before he leaves. Their parting will be interesting, as I suspect both will mask their ambiguous feelings towards each other (for different reasons) and will act either formally or jokingly.

 

But there is a problem when Kaladin walks into Hearthstone as a brown-eyed soldier (whether or not he will be wearing his captain’s coat): his forehead still bears the “dangerous slave” brands. And the brands show the place of his enslavement, implying that Amaram enslaved him. That will lead people to think that Kaladin is a captured deserter who was punished by enslavement and has now escaped. Or it’s possible the story Amaram circulated that Kaladin tried to kill him, explaining Kaladin’s enslavement, got back to Hearthstone. Certainly Amaram’s cousin Roshone will think that.

 

Roshone will check with Amaram to see what to do. And here is when the fun starts. I believe Amaram will blame Kaladin for Sadeas’ murder. This is Sadeas’ princedom, and if the Hearthstone people mistrusted Kaladin before, they will certainly hate him now. Kaladin’s parents will be endangered for harboring their prince’s assassin.

 

Amaram will want Roshone to kill Kaladin to correct what Amaram considers his big mistake of showing mercy. Roshone will either try to arrange for Kaladin’s assassination or follow “legal process” to imprison Kaladin (and then try to execute him or assassinate him in prison).

 

I assume that Kaladin won’t need Stormlight to summon Syl as a shardblade. If Kaladin allows himself to be imprisoned, it will be to protect his parents. As Dalinar told Kaladin in WoR, it is impossible to keep a shardbearer jailed against their will – they can just cut themselves out.

 

While all this is going on, Kaladin will try to warn the people of Hearthstone of the coming Everstorm and the danger of the Parshmen. No one will believe him. After he’s done everything he thinks he can do, Kaladin will infuse himself with Stormlight and fly himself, his parents and maybe also Laral to Kholinar.

 

Riots and civil discord will await Kaladin in Kholinar. Hard to speculate on what will happen there. Jasnah returned and working with Kaladin? Asuedon upset with Kaladin for rescuing her husband? Who knows…

 

BUT, I believe Szeth and perhaps Bent Nale himself will confront Kaladin in Kholinar. AND I think Kaladin will state his fourth ideal here: “I will protect even those who don’t want to be protected.” (Maybe he’ll state this even earlier in Hearthstone, but I don’t know what he can personally do to protect the people there, since they have no Oathgate to open. Maybe some “wind-y” thing to create a protective weather dome over the city?)

 

Also, I believe Kaladin will have lots of internal turmoil (what else is new?) when he realizes he cannot save everyone and he might have to choose between people, particularly between lighteyes and darkeyes. After everyone finally believes that the Everstorm is imminent, I envision a scene out of Saigon, 1975: the population storming the plateau that is the Oathgate, people being pulled down as they scramble up for a place of safety, people being pushed over the edge in the general melee – a horrible mess.

 

Is there even a 10.5% chance of accuracy?

Edited April 28, 2014 by Confused

[maxal]

Yeah, I'll give you your 10%.

 

I am unsure as to what Kaladin may be about in the next book. Part of me thinks he will make it straight to Heartstone, discredited Roshone, take the lead of his small village and teach everyone to fight against the Voidbringers out of necessity. This will attract people of the nearing villages and soon, Kal will end up with a growing army of darkeyes. The word will spread. The revolution in Kohlinar will grow and somehow Kal will end up at the head of it all. Eventually, the barrier between darkeyes and lighteyes will drop.

 

Another part of me thinks that Kaladin will stop in Kohlinar because he won't have enough stormlight. There, he will meet the queen and he will hate her. The revolution will rage and he will understand why. He will be stuck between wanting to protect Dalinar's kingdom and wanting to protect the people. In the end, he will find a way to unite them all, probably as the queen will end up dead, but not by his hand or his fault.

 

But hey, the polls are open. Anything could happen.

Edited April 28, 2014 by maxal

[Patrick Star]

I think that Szeth will confront Kaladin in Kholinar.  We know that he is mentally unstable, and I think that he will blow a gasket after slaughtering the Stone Shamans, and will blame Kaladin for it.

 

I like your fourth ideal and completely agree that Kaladin will walk into Hearthstone, and that he will likely take the darkeye drops.

 

I also think that Kaladin will somehow get Nightblood from Szeth after their confrontation (still shipping Nightblood and Syl), and will meet up with Zahel (Vasher) in Kholinar.

 

Those are my two cents.  I give these predictions a 34.5%

[Kobold King]

I also think that Kaladin will somehow get Nightblood from Szeth after their confrontation (still shipping Nightblood and Syl), and will meet up with Zahel (Vasher) in Kholinar.

 

Why, Kaladin? Why won't you let Szeth keep his magical swords! You're being a bully!

[Patrick Star]

Why, Kaladin? Why won't you let Szeth keep his magical swords! You're being a bully!

 

1) I'm assuming that Szeth attacks Kaladin.  If he doesn't, Szeth will likely keep Nightblood.

 

2) Kaladin has had interactions with Vasher, Nightblood's creator.  It's logical to think that he will get Nightblood (which will earn Vasher's respect).

 

3) I'm still shipping Nightblood and Syl, and I think that Nighblood will leave Szeth during the confrontation (if there is one).

[Kobold King]

1) I'm assuming that Szeth attacks Kaladin.  If he doesn't, Szeth will likely keep Nightblood.

 

2) Kaladin has had interactions with Vasher, Nightblood's creator.  It's logical to think that he will get Nightblood (which will earn Vasher's respect).

 

3) I'm still shipping Nightblood and Syl, and I think that Nighblood will leave Szeth during the confrontation (if there is one).

 

From a narrative perspective, it makes sense. But I think Szeth could benefit from his puppy.

[GreyPilgrim]

I don't think Kaladin will obtain Nightblood. It doesn't really make narrative sense, as he already has a living Shardblade to keep him company. Also, Nightblood's Intent doesn't fit with Kaladin in any way. Since when has Kaladin gone around slaughtering like Szeth has. Nightblood will stick with Szeth, as his own little form of friendly torture, because what about Szeth does not involve some form of torture/pain/death?

[Aleksiel]

“I will protect even those who don’t want to be protected.” 

 

I swear if this really ends up Kaladin's fourth ideal, I will throw the book out of the window. I'll first wrap it carefully, so it's not harmed in the fall, check to ensure there's nobody on the street below and throw it. Then I'll go down to recover it, but I would've made my point. I get it, Kal will protect basically everyone so long as it's right, enough of that. Seriously.

 

Not to mention this oath doesn't seem like the right thing to do. If someone doesn't want your help/protection/whatever, don't force yourself on them, storm it. I really dislike characters who think they know better what others really need. We've been through the bad consequences of unwanted help in Elantris. However, it might be a lesson Kal need to learn. He's so overprotective when it comes to those he considers his responsibility. Thus I think his future character arc will be in the direction of letting go of some responsibilities, so ideal will be more of a opposite of what you suggest.

[Numb]

It seems more likely the Ideal will have something to do with leadership or responsibility. He seems to have the protecting part rather covered.

[Aleksiel]

He might not have an ideal for leadership. Creation is Shallan's primary attribute, yet she'll make no oath about it, only truths, which is based on her secondary attribute. Nonetheless, she'll keep creating. The same way Kaladin could keep leading his men without any oaths on the subject.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Delightful]

It seems more likely the Ideal will have something to do with leadership or responsibility. He seems to have the protecting part rather covered.

Agreed.

 

@Confused, my main issue with your version of events is that Kal was very clear towards the end of WoR that he would never ever let himself be imprisoned again. So I don't see that factoring as part of the story.

It would be interesting however, if Moash somehow entered the scene trying to get proper revenge on Roshone....though I think that has like a 0.05% chance of happening.

I agree with you that he'll most likely walk into Hearthstone, although I can see him flying straight in to Roshone to bully him into helping or something like that. Not sure which way that will go. But I do sincerely hope it doesn't take him half the book to get there. 

[Numb]

He might not have an ideal for leadership. Creation is Shallan's primary attribute, yet she'll make no oath about it, only truths, which is based on her secondary attribute. Nonetheless, she'll keep creating. The same way Kaladin could keep leading his men without any oaths on the subject.

 

The difference between Shallan and Kal could be solely due to their orders. Cryptics are rather liberal where as Honorspren seem far more bound. Kal is a natural leader and protector but he still had to say specific oaths about protecting. There are issues with leadership he still hasn't been able to grapple with. One of those being his inability to let his men go. He believes he has to protect all his men regardless of situation which is something a leader can't do. His men are willing to die for him and he has to accept sometimes he can't save everyone. I feel this next book will deal with that. I imagine a situation where a group of his men have to sacrifice themselves to save a group of people and he has to be willing to let them do it.

[Aleksiel]

The difference between Shallan and Kal could be solely due to their orders. Cryptics are rather liberal where as Honorspren seem far more bound. Kal is a natural leader and protector but he still had to say specific oaths about protecting. There are issues with leadership he still hasn't been able to grapple with. One of those being his inability to let his men go. He believes he has to protect all his men regardless of situation which is something a leader can't do. His men are willing to die for him and he has to accept sometimes he can't save everyone. I feel this next book will deal with that. I imagine a situation where a group of his men have to sacrifice themselves to save a group of people and he has to be willing to let them do it.

 

You are right their orders are different, however there is no evidence KR make oaths on both attributes. That's just an assumption that may or may not be correct.

[Veil]

I agree with Aleksiel and everyone else. Kaladin's biggest problem right now is that he's trying to do too much and it's eating away at him. Also, since all indicators point to Windrunners being a fairly inclusive order (with their squires and all)--as opposed to, say, Bondsmiths, whose numbers are severely limited--I agree that his next ideal is going to have to do with leadership or giving up responsibility. Currently my leading theory is something along the lines of "I will teach others to protect those I cannot" or "I will give men the means to protect themselves."

[Confused]

Veil and Aleksiel, the reason I chose this ideal is because no one knows the Everstorm is coming and no one believes the Parshmen are a danger. Almost everyone Kaladin saves will think they don't need protecting. Yet Kaladin promised Dalinar he would do as much as he could to help. To unlock the Kholinar Oathgate, he may need more investiture than he currently has; hence, the fourth Ideal.

 

As the author of a post about the meaning of primary versus secondary Divine Attributes, I agree with Aleksiel that all of Kaladin's oaths will involve Protection rather than Leadership. Maybe for the reasons Veil states, his fourth Ideal might be something like "I will protect only those that I can." But it could well be Veil's second suggestion about helping others protect themselves.

 

Delightful, you're right, Kaladin probably won't allow himself to be imprisoned. I'm just suggesting he might if he thought it would protect his parents, especially since he knows he could bust out at any time. And I agree with you about Moash - I almost added that possibility to my OP, but rejected it because of its unlikelihood, however much sense it makes.

 

How come no one commented on my Saigon 1975 image - the last American helicopter leaving the American embassy there with people clinging to it? I thought that might be controversial. Reading everyone's posts on this Forum, I think It's always interesting what people pick out to comment on. That's one of the things that makes this Forum so entertaining.

[Kobold King]

How come no one commented on my Saigon 1975 image - the last American helicopter leaving the American embassy there with people clinging to it? I thought that might be controversial. Reading everyone's posts on this Forum, I think It's always interesting what people pick out to comment on. That's one of the things that makes this Forum so entertaining.

 

I think the comparison is apt. I just didn't think I had anything to add.

 

I don't think Kaladin will obtain Nightblood. It doesn't really make narrative sense, as he already has a living Shardblade to keep him company. Also, Nightblood's Intent doesn't fit with Kaladin in any way. Since when has Kaladin gone around slaughtering like Szeth has. Nightblood will stick with Szeth, as his own little form of friendly torture, because what about Szeth does not involve some form of torture/pain/death?

 

This is also true. Nightblood is far better matched to Szeth than Kaladin. (I'm really getting swept from one point of view to the next on this thread, aren't I? )

[Matrim Bloody Cauthon]

I like it. I know there will be a lot of friction between roshone and kaladin but I don't think that he will use the darkeyed drops. I think that he knows that the time of hiding who he has become is over.

"Anyway there's a lot to tell-a lot is happening. I think that you're kind of going to be at the center of it."

Kaladin took a deep breath, but nodded. What else did he expect? No more hiding. He had made his decision.

WoR page 1046

 

 

3) I'm still shipping Nightblood and Syl, and I think that Nighblood will leave Szeth during the confrontation (if there is one).

 

I don't buy it. I believe in nightblood and stick.

 

I am a stick. do you want to destroy some evil today?

 

edit: so I started reading warbreaker the other day and I found a quote that proves that stick and nightblood should be together.

 

"I am a stick." -WoR

and heres one from nightblood.

 

"Well, I am a sword, Nightblood said with a mental huff. might as well stick to what you're good at..."

proof that nightblood and stick are meant for each other they think along the same lines.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Matrim Bloody Cauthon

[WitSpren]

Love the thread, but I have no doubt that the first thing Kal will be doing, will be to rub himself with curry and go prancing through Heartstone singing Horneater lullabies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, now on to the serious projections:

 

 

1. Time is VERY, VERY Limited. Kholinar is in revolt and Delinar is specifically directing Kal to go there and sort out the mess if Kal can. Delinar is going to the King for a sphere requisition.   It is only logical that the King give Kal some kind of “Writ of Command in the Name of the King” as well, because Kal obviously needs some kind of emergency authority all across Alethkar so that he can command any town/village that he passes to immediately start preparing, without having to spend ridiculous amounts of time at every stop on the way.

 

2. Kal needs to get & take a SpanReed as well so he can keep in communication with the other KRs.

 

3. He needs to do something with the Honorblade –  

 

       a. Delinar is one option – since he will not be getting a living Shardblade. This may be the best option -  especially if it will work the Oathgates. PROBLEM – Delinar needs to stay at Urithiru & consolidate the KR seat  of power. Also, he might want to give it to someone else in the future & it might be hard for Delinar to give it  up.

 

       b. Give it to someone else – who can go with him & that he can “Teach” during the trip, so that after they travel for 5 or so days, then they can go 2 different ways – covering more ground & saving more people. If he gives it to someone else – who?

 

 

 

             i. Dear old Dad – He can 100% trust his Dad (I think), so (other than Delinar) this is the safest. It would be awesome having another Flying Surgeon, zipping around. But it would delay the start of the Bonding process & I doubt that his Dad would be willing to use the blade as a weapon, so it would be a partial waste

 

            ii. Rock – Pro…Has been training with Kal so already knows a (very) little about Windrunners skills), May be already Bonded as a Squire to Kal.      -Con… like Dad - he will not fight, what happened to Moash (giving powerful stuff to someone & having them turn against him.

 

            iii. Teft - Pro…Has been training with Kal so already knows a (very) little about Windrunners skills), May be already Bonded as a Squire to Kal, has longer knowledge of KRs than most.     -    Con… what happened to Moash (giving powerful stuff to someone & having them turn against him.

 

            iv. Sigzil - Pro…Has been training with Kal so already knows a (very) little about Windrunners skills),       May be already Bonded as a Squire to Kal, Is familiar with many people and places.     -   Con… what happened to Moash (giving powerful stuff to someone & having them turn against him.

 

            v. Lopen - Pro…Has been training with Kal so already knows a (very) little about Windrunners skills), IS Definitely already Bonded as a Squire to Kal, or a Proto KR. Has already started actively breathing and using Stormlight. Has proven himself a little more than the other Bridgemen by taking over the protection of the King successfully in an emergency. Has MANY cousins. If he is a Proto KR, the Honorblade will not turn on him/block him from advancing (may actually accelerate his KR advancement). Showed specific interest in BEING a Windrunner so is less likely to have problems with flying/falling. Has been paying especially good attention to what Kal does so he (I think) is the most Windrunner knowledgeable.         -  Con… what happened to Moash (giving powerful stuff to someone & having them turn against him. This is less likely to be an issue with Lopen because we know that he is either a proto KR (& will soon have his own blade & surges) or he is Kal’s Squire – giving Kal (a little) more control of him.     (It still would be very difficult to get it back, even if he tells them in the beginning "this is only a loan" it would be hard for Lopen to give it up, unless he gets his own Shardblade as a KR)

 

      c. Someone I have not thought of.

 

      d. Hide it & chance that someone else might find/access it & it could be lost to him. Bad side is that it would be a wasted resource at a very dire time, when every resource should be utilized to the max.

 

 

 

So, at this point – I think that the Lopen option has the most potential. What do you think?

 

 

 

Edited because all the spacing was lost/messed up

Edited April 30, 2014 by WitSpren

[BrindIf]

Can the honorblade open the oathgate? If so, Dalinar may find it useful, even being stuck at Urithiru.

[Maffu17]

His parents won't be in Hearthstone. Broken by the loss of his sons, suicidal and no longer willing to heal Lirin and his wife used the spheres to abandon their home. In the ensueing search for them Kaladin will have to travel to Kholinar, to seek out his wealthy light-eyed grandparents on his mothers side. While in Kholinar he'll have a lot of protecting to do while the riots rage. He'll eventually find them and discover that in his despair Kaladin's dad will have attracted his own crystalline or plant-like spren and after being informed of the first oath by Kaladin will start down the path of becoming an Edgedancer.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Maffu17

[Delightful]

I never though about is before, but I LOVE the idea of Lirin the Edgedancer. He was broken when his sons left, that's not an issue. And he would be 100x more of an awesome healer with Storm light. I really want this to happen now!

(As long as our Radiants aren't exclusively relatives of Kaladin, Dalinar and Shallan+Lift)

[Aether]

I think it more likely that Lirin would become an Truthwatchers, actually. He does care a lot, but it is more a kind-hearted and intellectual one than the very fervent empathy that both Kaladin and Lift possesses. I think the Learned/Giving is a much better fit as Primary/Secondary attribute than Caring/Healing.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Aether

[Maffu17]

I think it more likely that Lirin would become an Truthwatchers, actually. He does care a lot, but it is more a kind-hearted and intellectual one than the very fervent empathy that both Kaladin and Lift possesses. I think the Learned/Giving is a much better fit as Primary/Secondary attribute than Caring/Healing.

 

Did you mix those up? Caring/Healing is Lirin's raison d'etre. 

 

But then I always had Renarin marked down as Brave/Obedient so what do I know!

[Aether]

Did you mix those up? Caring/Healing is Lirin's raison d'etre. 

 

But then I always had Renarin marked down as Brave/Obedient so what do I know!

I am not sure we agree on his motivations, then. He certainty cares, but not as passionately as other characters from Stormlight Archive do. A huge theme with Kaladin is that he cannot let go, something his father told him would get easier with time.

 

Jasnah wants to protect and preserve humanity, Shallan cares deeply about her friends and associates, Kaladin is extremely brave, Dalinar is lawful - what decides which Order you isn't what attributes you have, but what your primary attributes are. For Shallan that is obviously creativity, for Kaladin it is his desire to protect others. I don't think Lirin is all about empathy, but he is very learned (surgeon's assistant, likes to fiddle with Highstorm predictions), and it is incredible how much he gives of himself to his community, even when they turn against him.

[Aleksiel]

Did you mix those up? Caring/Healing is Lirin's raison d'etre. 

 

Lirin always told Kaladin he cared too much and he must learn to accept death. Lift, like Kal, has seen much death, but never grew use to it. She felt strong compassion towards a boy she just met and almost died to save him. Lirin doesn't have the same mind set. He is caring, but he also doesn't let death affect him as much as Kal or Lift. He is a learned man, who gives his knowledge and skills to everyone who needs them, which so far fits the Truthwatchers attributes. But if we only get one Radiant per Order, I'm afraid he won't be glowing anytime soon.