The Well of Ascension, Pits of Hathsin, and Condensed Investiture.

[FRedgli]

I just finished my reread of era 1 (including SH. Can someone explain the logic behind encouraging someone to wait to read SH until they read era 2(I’ve read it all)?) and I don’t exactly understand what the Pits of Hathsin and the Well of Ascension are, or more percicely why they exists. Especially the Pits, because I don’t see why Ruin would want the pits to exist. All Atium ever did(in shardic terms) was dilute/limit Ruin’s influence, it was not something Ruin should of wanted. 

 

So I think both locations are the shard’s perpendicularities/shardpools but I don’t get why they’re so different. Why is so much Atium produced compared to Lerasium? My best guess is because the physical part of preservation is more concentrated in the mists maybe— does Ruin have a mist analogue? Do the shards choose how they’re investiture manifests on the planet? Is it sort of just however they fit, or they have some control but not complete? 

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on the differences between Ruin and preservation in this regard? Also does anyone know if the pits or the Well is around in era 2? I’m gonna reread that soonish so I’m hazy on the details but I seem to think the pits are supposed to be refilling but idk why I think that!

 

As as an aside, I have such a problem with Sanderson books because I feel like I absorb knowledge from the epigraphs but it doesn’t fit anywhere in my head, so I have a lot of questions about what I think I know. Last question, does anyone have a projected release date or something for the final book in era2? 

 

 

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, FRedgli said:

I just finished my reread of era 1 (including SH. Can someone explain the logic behind encouraging someone to wait to read SH until they read era 2(I’ve read it all)?)

Because people think that the reveal of the Sovereign at the end of BoM is worth waiting on SH for. I personally think it's better to just read SH when era 1 is still fresh in your mind. 

1 hour ago, FRedgli said:

I don’t exactly understand what the Pits of Hathsin and the Well of Ascension are, or more percicely why they exists. Especially the Pits, because I don’t see why Ruin would want the pits to exist. All Atium ever did(in shardic terms) was dilute/limit Ruin’s influence, it was not something Ruin should of wanted. 

They're both perpendicularities, built with additional functions. The well refills periodically, and the pits siphon power away from Ruin. Ruin didn't make the pits. Preservation did. His perpendicularity itself was the black lake seen in Alendi's logbook. 

1 hour ago, FRedgli said:

Why is so much Atium produced compared to Lerasium? My best guess is because the physical part of preservation is more concentrated in the mists maybe— does Ruin have a mist analogue?

You got it all right. 

Quote

Chaos (paraphrased)

Why is there such an imbalance between the amount of atium and the amount of lerasium in the world? Also, why are atium and lerasium very imbalanced in Allomantic power (Lerasium is far more useful than atium, really)?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There isn't. Leras is just spread out further. He is in the mists, in the Well, and in the lerasium. Ruin's power however is condensed strictly in atium.

source

 

1 hour ago, FRedgli said:

Do the shards choose how they’re investiture manifests on the planet? Is it sort of just however they fit, or they have some control but not complete? 

They don't. They can help shape it, like Ruin building the hole that allows control into hemalurgy, or Preservation altering how people snap with the mists... But they don't choose how the system works. 

Quote

-snip-

Kaimipono

On a broader level, is hemalurgy officially dead, then? Or is it still extant in some Ruin-free (but still messy) form? (If it's gone, is there any imbalance since Preservation's magic power is kept and Ruin's isn't?)

Brandon Sanderson

Is Hemalurgy dead? No, not at all. It, like the other two powers, was not created by Ruin or Preservation, but by the natural state of the world and its interaction with the gods who created it. It still requires the same method of creation, but very few people are aware of how it works.

source

As to the rest...the pits and the well are both dead and Harmony should have his own perpendicularity(s?). There was mention that atium production would be halted for roughly 300 years... But that was before harmony. We see the pits in Era 2 when Wax and TenSoon are exiting the Homeland. They're just rock. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Calderis

[RShara]

1 hour ago, FRedgli said:

I just finished my reread of era 1 (including SH. Can someone explain the logic behind encouraging someone to wait to read SH until they read era 2(I’ve read it all)?)

Because the reveal of Kelsier still alive and being the Sovereign can be spoiled by Secret History. I personally thing it's fine either way.

Quote

I don’t exactly understand what the Pits of Hathsin and the Well of Ascension are, or more percicely why they exists. Especially the Pits, because I don’t see why Ruin would want the pits to exist. All Atium ever did(in shardic terms) was dilute/limit Ruin’s influence, it was not something Ruin should of wanted.

They're what we used to call Shardpools and are now called perpendicularities. They're places where the Shard's power pools and gathers. This can happen naturally, due to the nature of the interaction between the Shard and the planet, or the Shard can purposefully make them. In Ruin's case, it's just where his investiture happened to gather, thanks to Preservation stealing a chunk of his power and hiding it there.

Quote

So I think both locations are the shard’s perpendicularities/shardpools but I don’t get why they’re so different. Why is so much Atium produced compared to Lerasium? My best guess is because the physical part of preservation is more concentrated in the mists maybe— does Ruin have a mist analogue? Do the shards choose how they’re investiture manifests on the planet? Is it sort of just however they fit, or they have some control but not complete?

So much atium is produced because that was just about the only outlet of Ruin's power. Preservation is spread out through the mists, the Well, in humans, etc, and it's intrinsically different, so it doesn't really produce nuggets.

 

...

 

Darn it, Cal.

 

[FRedgli]

54 minutes ago, Calderis said:

They're both perpendicularities, built with additional functions. The well refills periodically, and the pits siphon power away from Ruin. Ruin didn't make the pits. Preservation did. His perpendicularity itself was the black lake seen in Alendi's logbook. 

Oh awesome! Is the most likely thing that Preservation made the pits as part of his betrayal/imprisonment of Ruin? 

Quote

They don't. They can help shape it, like Ruin building the hole that allows control into hemalurgy, or Preservation altering how people snap with the mists... But they don't choose how the system works. 

As to the rest...the pits and the well are both dead and Harmony should have his own perpendicularity(s?). There was mention that atium production would be halted for roughly 300 years... But that was before harmony. We see the pits in Era 2 when Wax and TenSoon are exiting the Homeland. They're just rock. 

If the perpendicularities are created by the investitures natural interaction with the planet, isn't it possible that the pits and the wells would still be working and the pits would be about to refill (I could see it being something like harmonium instead of atium though (sazium!)). I'll need to reread that part though and see what I think. 

 

58 minutes ago, RShara said:

They're what we used to call Shardpools and are now called perpendicularities. They're places where the Shard's power pools and gathers. This can happen naturally, due to the nature of the interaction between the Shard and the planet, or the Shard can purposefully make them. In Ruin's case, it's just where his investiture happened to gather, thanks to Preservation stealing a chunk of his power and hiding it there.

Does every shard have one, or is it optional? 

[Tglassy]

As one who did not read Secret History before reading Era 2, I can say unequivocally that the reveal at the end that Kelsior is still alive was AMA-ZA-ZING! There are a few hints thoughout, but as far as I knew, he was dead and gone.  And then he WASN'T!  Then I re-read Era 1, and then read Secret History, and it was awesome.  It was also before I knew much about the Cosmere, so that was cool, too.  

[+Invocation]

7 minutes ago, FRedgli said:

Does every shard have one, or is it optional?

Not every Shard has one, but most do.

[RShara]

13 minutes ago, FRedgli said:

Oh awesome! Is the most likely thing that Preservation made the pits as part of his betrayal/imprisonment of Ruin? 

If the perpendicularities are created by the investitures natural interaction with the planet, isn't it possible that the pits and the wells would still be working and the pits would be about to refill (I could see it being something like harmonium instead of atium though (sazium!)). I'll need to reread that part though and see what I think. 

 

Does every shard have one, or is it optional? 

Not in this case, because Sazed has taken up both, and so those perpendicularities don't exist any longer. We've seen the Pits and they're empty. Spending enough time on a planet will eventually create a perpendicularity. A Shard can choose to create one sooner, but eventually it happens. They can avoid creating one by not spending time on a planet.

Edited September 24, 2018 by RShara

[goody153]

Either reading SH first or later works but I prefer the reading after better