The Chat Thread

[+ZincAboutIt]

7 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Can someone give me a TLDR of what happened with the re-Spiking and the time jump? I’m trying to have Byron be sort of stuck between two powers, but I don’t know if the timeline is supposed to be a permanent or temporary jump.

If your character has never been in the Alleyverse before this Era, they should not have timeline confusion as they are effectively entering a whole, complete universe with its own history and events. The only people who are changed are the ones who have been here before the re-spiking.

The shift is supposed to be permanent, but it will eventually begin to degrade. What is kept at the end of the Era in terms of character development or alteration is up to the discretion of each RPer, so if you really like your changed character, you can keep them totally changed, or just keep some alterations, etc.

[Ashbringer]

What I’m doing is having Byron’s mother (who’s probably dead at this point, I’m not sure yet) be from the Alleyverse, and have drastically swapped powers. So what abilities Byron inherited from her are “stuck” between the edited (Willshaping, and Connection to his mother’s old spren) and real (REDACTED) timelines. (His cadmium is from his father’s side.)

Mainly I don’t want to miss out on the timeline plot just because I’m new and since my 3 are all from Scadrial>Roshar. But since Byron does a lot of time warping in his own right, he could be a key to “solving” the shift

[18th Shard]

So there isn't really a time shift involved - it's essentially a massive-universe scaled Forgery, made permanent by the re-Spiking. The altered past didn't actually occur, like in most Forgeries - the Forgery is just powerful enough to make it seem in almost every respect that it did.

[Ashbringer]

Gotcha. Can I still get away with Byron being half-in and half-out of the false reality? 

[AonEne]

I’d say it’s reasonable, Fate has said it’s possible people with connections to the Alleyplanet who didn’t live there could still be affected, iirc. (What’s the third power you mentioned? Is it a secret?) 

[+ZincAboutIt]

12 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Gotcha. Can I still get away with Byron being half-in and half-out of the false reality? 

This is definitely a question for @Fatebreaker, he'd know best on this one.

[Fatebreaker]

It's  kind of a tricky thing. I don't want to tell you you can't have a character be the way you imagined them, but it's a slippery slope. The more people that remember the old world immediately, the more it undermines the Stranger's work and the shorter the plot will likely be. Especially since several players already have characters that are unaffected in some way or other, the chances of their characters meeting up and forcing this plot towards its premature conclusion are high. If the characters mother is from the alley verse and he came recently, then maybe not much changed with her and he came after the shift. Any memories he had of the presented world with be faint and conflicting with what he encounters now, but she wouldn't remember any of it. Or perhaps he can develop a sense of displacement gradually, or has strong flashbacks or something of that nature. One of the central themes of this Era is the concept of perception and reality, the world slowly unraveling around people. It will feel so much more fulfilling and coherent as a plot if this is allowed to develop naturally over time. The more people who know what happened, the more unsustainable it becomes. 

Does that make sense?

[18th Shard]

I'd add that if anyone really did start developing memories of the other timeline, it's not a natural progression for someone to realize it is a different timeline. I'd say 90% of people who have those memories come back would start thinking they were going crazy or hallucinating, etc. - not to mention most of them will shortly forget completely due to Aylitha's creatures anyways. So even if someone does start getting this sense that something is wrong, that's not a plus for your character, it's usually something negative (i.e. Sanax is entirely insane and has blackouts, or Lita having paranoia and almost compulsive behavior). Like Fatebreaker said, the changes are going to mess with a person's conception of reality. Either their mind or the world will unravel around them, and this early on in the Era, I'd bet on their mind going first. 

[Ashbringer]

I think it makes sense. The thing is, none of Byron’s memories are really different, since nothing changed in his lifetime besides his mother’s heritage. He doesn’t remember much about her, and would be confused about a spren following him in either timeline. To him, it would be more learning about where the spren came from, and who his mother was, than whether or not the spren should be there.

For now, the only thing that would be bugging him is the lightspren and a glimmer of the ability he secretly has, which he just thinks is a learned skill of his. So he isn’t experiencing flashbacks of another life he lived, he’s just stuck with a spren he shouldn’t be connected to in the original time and a power he shouldn’t have in the current time.

It’s not his past that changed, but his connection to an Investiture.

I’m not sure if that changes anything, but that’s what I was imagining.

[SingingMosaic]

@Fatebreaker because it's his plot, and anyone else who wants to comment, make suggestions, or put forth possible interactions. This has been some weeks in coming and there are some elements of it that most wouldn't feel comfortable having sprung on them and that I wouldn't be comfortable springing on anyone either and some that, if they come up, would have to be talked about. This is a sliver of the thing that my brain was turning over that I mentioned in previous posts, though that either didn't go anywhere or is still down there somewhere simmering.

 So that made me realize I should sit down and talk about the Nnimm stuff I mentioned a few weeks ago, plus address some things with their major weakness and how it effects them differently between timelines.

The reason why I had them missing most of their memory was because from my perception it looked like he'd been planning and building this Forgery for a while IC, and they'd arrived the night everything took effect. In my mind they kind of slipped through the cracks, as in: It still effects them because it has to. But instead of that feather of details being edited out, the way they arrived, the way the world sounded when they got there, the little they picked up before it happened, something glitched slightly and they just got most of their life wiped from their mind instead. I also think of this as partially not a glitch, since their weakness was there beforehand, and they'd learned enough about it and about what they were supposed to be sensitive to that I figured Nnimm with their context would probably figure out too quickly--not what exactly happened, but that something was wrong. Hearing phantom echoes of the world as it truly sounds on occasion, hearing what damaged or dissonant spots must exist, etc. and I thought that would either end anticlimactically or in someone coming along to mess with them quickly enough if they started mentioning it. So while it was a bit of a glitch in my mind it was also the system trying to protect itself from someone who, if they pooled their information and their senses with those of others, would run the risk of weakening the effect sooner rather than later. I also figured that anything that massive scale, no matter how skilled the crafter, wouldn't be perfect. I hope I didn't take too much liberty with this, and if I have, I can easily change it or take suggestions. Now to address their weakness:

They're still the same age, twelve, no more than thirteen. Brandon says they age faster, so I put them at the equivalent of sixteen/eighteen physically, because he doesn't give any clues as to how much faster. I have no idea and couldn't even guess at what their mental age might be, because that's already so fuzzy and individually specific from person to person. In the new timeline it's younger than in the original, because of the lack of experience. In the original they're older than their years, and I imagine unless you're familiar with Singers, you probably wouldn't realize how young Nnimm is. I imagine RoW might shed some light on this, but probably not as much as I want. Anyway this pertains to the weakness because pre-Forgery Nnimm would not only have more context, but more life experience, the simultaneous youth and age I always imagine someone who spent most of their life not really alive would have. Post-Forgery Nnimm, even if someone did walk right up to them and give them the context for what they're experiencing, assuming they said anything, would handle it very badly. They're already going to handle it badly as is, when the stress of that dissonance becomes too much for their fragile calm, they're going to come apart like threadbare fabric, all the trauma they suffered and could handle better pre-Forgery coming down on them like a hammer of doom without them having the ability to remember it yet. This is going to lead to a very confused, vulnerable and manipulatable child, struggling to stay quiet, but who will essentially break open the first time anyone gives them the time of day and makes them feel safe and spill everything they're sensing. Intimidation would probably easily bend them as well, but in that case they might just revert--not magically speaking, since the damage on Roshar was undone with the Everstorm, but psychologically. And that could have its own consequences, though if that does happen, I am willing to plan with whoever it happens with as to what they'll do with such a malleable creature or if they want to avoid that entirely, or hand them off to someone else. I wouldn't be essentially pressuring someone to godmod Nnimm then, which makes me a lot more comfortable with the potential situation. I don't know how many characters others are playing who might have the knowledge of any of this to put two and two together. Anyway, if none of this does come up with them, the E5 sheet applies in its entirety, I didn't put some of this there because they don't know it and I didn't know it very clearly yet when I wrote it. It can be updated if it needs to be.

[+Sorana]

Hello @Nohadon

at the moment we basically got two active threads. "A Masked Dance" which is mostly without plot (apart from the one people come up with) and is a possibility to write your characters after the respiking of the world. And "The Missing Report" which is an expedition into the TUBA archives. Apart from that, you can of course come up with a little plot of your own, or create another location thread - nothing different from a year back when you were still more active.

Did you find some information about the respiking of the world that happened between E4 and E5?

[Nohadon]

52 minutes ago, Sorana said:

Did you find some information about the respiking of the world that happened between E4 and E5?

Nope! But considering I'm thinking of a fresh start anyways, not converting old characters or anything it should be alright?
That being said, if there happens to be a handy synposis I'd gladly take a looksee. I'll take a peek at 'A Masked Dance' and have some fun over there for a bit, or maybe the Einladung hospital if it's still active.

[+Sorana]

Just now, Nohadon said:

Nope! But considering I'm thinking of a fresh start anyways, not converting old characters or anything it should be alright?
That being said, if there happens to be a handy synposis I'd gladly take a looksee. I'll take a peek at 'A Masked Dance' and have some fun over there for a bit, or maybe the Einladung hospital if it's still active.

The Hospital is at the moment mostly scenes of characters (although feel free to interact with Mike should you want to). Otherwise, yes I think the masked Dance is a good place to start.

In a nutshell these are the changes we (temporarily) made to AV history. Maybe take a look, so that you know what happened and what didn't happen, should your character refer to past events.

Spoiler

E1: Guild War did happen, massive destruction of the city (also because of the demons of the Chaos Space Marines), Alleycity wasn't nuked

E2: happened as it did, minus the Phoenix attack on Oasis City

E3: happened as it did, minus the Phoenix attack on Alleycity; the combined forces of the guilds were able to defeat Plasma Core

E4: the exploration happened as it did, the atium was distributed evenly between the participating guilds

============

As the guilds will be less powerful, several smaller groups exist to fill the vacuum left behind. They don't need to be named, but in general more guilds exist, and the ones with PCs are simply a part of them all.

============

The slum is located in the north of Alleycity, a part that was heavily destroyed during E1 and E3. People there don't have a 24/7 access to electricity and running water, and they live in the ruins of the houses that used to be there. (So far it used to be in the krater left by the nuking of Alleycity in E1)

 

[mathiau]

1 minute ago, Nohadon said:

Nope! But considering I'm thinking of a fresh start anyways, not converting old characters or anything it should be alright?
That being said, if there happens to be a handy synposis I'd gladly take a looksee. I'll take a peek at 'A Masked Dance' and have some fun over there for a bit, or maybe the Einladung hospital if it's still active.

Basic summary (courtesy of @ZincAboutIt)

Quote

Over the millennia, the Alleyverse has grown in population and complexity, with more and more enemies rising up to challenge the organization founded by Voidus and the Stranger, called the Dark Alley. This ever-increasing onslaught of problems, challengers, and catastrophes has weighed heavily on them, especially Voidus. Eventually, the Stranger decides to do something about it all. He's going to edit the Worldspike, and rewrite time.

Era 5 is the culmination of this plan, which he's been cooking up in the background during the current era, Era 4. At the start of Era 5, the Shift will have taken place, and everyone in the Alleyverse will have edited memories of the universe, the world, and the events of history. Guilds will be de-powered, the Dark Alley will be a secret, shrouded in mystery and known by very few, and Voidus and the Stranger will be mythological figures known in stories - but not as "real." In doing so, the Stranger will give his friend the chance to live an unburdened life, at the cost of a vast chunk of the Stranger's powers to keep the illusion running itself smoothly. 

As you might imagine, eventually things begin to disintegrate. People start to remember two sets of memories, or manifest two sets of abilities - one in the "true" timeline and one in the new one. Things like that. I anticipate that the world will get very chaotic at the end of this Era, with realities fighting to assert dominance and other such things. I'm not sure yet - that's probably something that will unfold in its own time.

 

[Nohadon]

3 minutes ago, mathiau said:

with realities fighting to assert dominance and other such things. I'm not sure yet - that's probably something that will unfold in its own time.

OOOH I like this, I have plans! Ideas! Things to do and a character to walk around and call everyone heretics!

[kenod]

10 hours ago, Nohadon said:

OOOH I like this, I have plans! Ideas! Things to do and a character to walk around and call everyone heretics!

Quick tip, according to @Grey Knight space marines (or at least the Black Crusade) might not be canon anymore.

[Grey Knight]

2 minutes ago, kenod said:

Quick tip, according to @Grey Knight space marines (or at least the Black Crusade) might not be canon anymore.

Now, I never said they weren't canon. Just erased from history. 

@Nohadon, if you want to play a character that calls people heretics (I.E., a 40K character), PM me.

[mathiau]

I have a few things to say about the recent changes of the index,

Firstly, the Index post of the character submission thread still say the cap is 150 points with 50 for skills and the one in the character discussion thread have not been changed at all, which could confuse new people.

Secondly, I think this update does make the Index easier to use, especially the part where you separated the power part in two. I also absolutely love that all compounding variants but the really op ones and atium are within point range without weakness and that Feruchemist, Mistborn and the body stealing ablity seems to be possible to use without an insane amount of weaknesses (especially the last one, which previously required 100 weakness points)

On the other hand, it's now impossible to make a Radiant that know how to fight, as 1st oath + skilled melee weapon training is 135 point which is 15 points over the cap. It seems to me like a Radiant that know how to fight should be possible with much less weakness points than 15.

[kenod]

17 minutes ago, mathiau said:

On the other hand, it's now impossible to make a Radiant that know how to fight, as 1st oath + skilled melee weapon training is 135 point which is 15 points over the cap. It seems to me like a Radiant that know how to fight should be possible with much less weakness points than 15.

Radiants get point deductions based on limitations caused by what broke them as well as limitations caused by their specific oaths, so that should generally make a 1st oath radiant still possible. Also, radiants don't need to know how to use weapons in order to be able to fight, since they have surges. Combat skills are just being able to fight with a specific (type of) weapon.

But yeah, the fact that 20 of our points can now no longer be spend on combat skills might make some existing characters be no longer allowed. Existing characters will be fine as noted in the post, but it might cause trouble when moving the Era 5 characters into Era 6 in the future.

[SingingMosaic]

Where's the new index? I looked in the character thread a couple days ago and it looked the same so I thought maybe it had been cleaned up visually and I couldn't tell.

[kenod]

2 minutes ago, SingingMosaic said:

Where's the new index? I looked in the character thread a couple days ago and it looked the same so I thought maybe it had been cleaned up visually and I couldn't tell.

A lot of values are the same, from what I can see, but some did get changed, like the compounding scores. I think some of the skill scores might also have gotten changed.

[18th Shard]

Like kenod noted, yes, it's at 90 (first ideal) + 45 (skilled melee combatant), but you get an automatic -5 for the first ideal and another approximately -5 for being broken enough to have a Nahel bond. That puts you at 125 without any real weaknesses besides the First Oath. Getting it down 5 more points shouldn't really be too much of a hindrance.

Edited May 30, 2020 by 18th Shard

[Ashbringer]

...So does this mean I should stop writing in NPC 3rd Ideal Skybreaker warriors for Tyrian to massacre?

...Seriously, this does cause some power creep problems with Tyrian.

[+ZincAboutIt]

NPCs that exist solely to get put through the meat grinder of your character probably won’t be a problem since they won’t last more than one scene  

[mathiau]

7 hours ago, kenod said:

Radiants get point deductions based on limitations caused by what broke them as well as limitations caused by their specific oaths, so that should generally make a 1st oath radiant still possible. Also, radiants don't need to know how to use weapons in order to be able to fight, since they have surges. Combat skills are just being able to fight with a specific (type of) weapon.

But yeah, the fact that 20 of our points can now no longer be spend on combat skills might make some existing characters be no longer allowed. Existing characters will be fine as noted in the post, but it might cause trouble when moving the Era 5 characters into Era 6 in the future.

Radiants don't need to be broken, Lopen never was.

About whether surge or surge + hand to hand can replace weapons:

Adhesion: at 1st oath the only usable effect in combat is the small stormlight trap, which an skilled opponent will avoid and which completely fails if their shoes have aluminium soles, and anyway I doubt just sticking the opponent's feet to the ground is enough to make you win (does 1st oath windrunners even get traps big enough to bind both feet?). Later oaths get wind manipulation and larger stormlight trap, but I'm talking about 1st oath here

Gravitation: fighting in the air require specific weapon training, lashing enemies require martial art training

Division: close range so it require martial art training, but the effect (burning the skin and clothes) won't make you win, and good luck using it on anyone with any kind of armour

Abrasion: I guess making your enemies slip would indeed be a powerful ability (and it would probably still work if the shoes are aluminium but not the floor), but are 1st oath radiant able to to do that? The closest Lift ever came to do that was in Edgedancer, so 2nd oath. On the other hand fighting while using abrasion on yourself seems to require specific training

Regrowth: Broken

Illumination: distractions would be useful in a fight, but it's more of an infiltration power, you'd still need to be a good fighter to win fights. For Renarin's versions, no idea

Transformation: Broken

Transportation: at first oath it only seems to allow to peer into Shadesmare and one way travel there, if we assume you can send other people without going then it might be strong if you use Szeth's martial art but otherwise it's just an escape button

Cohesion: This one's a bit weird cause we've only seen it used by a 4th oath Stonewarden and Amaram (and one attack each) so we don't know how it works at 1st oath, but it seems its most useful effect is sticking your opponent's feet in mud then turning the mud to rocks, which is essentially a slower version of the adhesion trap, except it works on aluminium

Tension: No idea, the only examples we've seen was with a 2nd oath Bondsmith, it didn't seem like it would be useful in a fight but Bondsmith are not supposed to be fighters anyway

So what order need fighting abilities and can't? Maybe Dustbringers, maybe Willshapers and maybe Stonewarden. Yeah cause I assume the ratings are written assuming you get both surges with your first oath, but we know for sure it's not the case for Skybreakers, Edgedancers and Bondsmith, and the only order we're sure get both surges with the first oath is the Windrunner order. So it's less of a problem than I thought.

still breaks everything I had in plan for NullBlade's sister but it's not like I can ask the Index to change just for that

4 hours ago, 18th Shard said:

Like kenod noted, yes, it's at 90 (first ideal) + 45 (skilled melee combatant), but you get an automatic -5 for the first ideal and another approximately -5 for being broken enough to have a Nahel bond. That puts you at 125 without any real weaknesses besides the First Oath. Getting it down 5 more points shouldn't really be too much of a hindrance.

Actually skilled melee combatant is 50, I already had subtracted the 5 for the first oath, and like I said not all radiants are broken