The Chat Thread

[Darth Woodrack]

1 hour ago, Invocation said:

What does it really matter? They're NPCs. 

 

It matters for plot relevance. If you haven’t noticed, Black Crusade NPCs play I to everything they play into. The Chaos marines, which are used as lackeys, mainly by Ark, but in a lot of main plots, are NPCs.

Sorana, to your point about equivalents, here’s my chart:

Power Armor: Bulky Shardplate

Bolters: Powerful Guns

Laspistols: Laser pistols

Mono molecular edge: Shardplate without the soul cutting effect

Space Marines: Epics with physical ability enhancement

Thermonukes: Thermonuclear Bombs.

Chaos Marines: Super Cultist

Psykers: Epics

Space Station: Space station(I think everyone can understand what this is.)

@Grey Knight, am I missing anything?

[+ZincAboutIt]

10 minutes ago, Darth Woodrack said:

It matters for plot relevance. If you haven’t noticed, Black Crusade NPCs play I to everything they play into. The Chaos marines, which are used as lackeys, mainly by Ark, but in a lot of main plots, are NPCs.

I think these should be given a strict number limit per 40K PC character, if you want my actual opinion. I understand that they sort of come "as a package" but keeping an entire other magical canon on tap simply to justify lots of NPC lackeys is a bit of a stretch.

[xinoehp512]

4 hours ago, ZincAboutIt said:

Maybe we could simply make a moratorium on new characters using all this WHK40(??) stuff. I am of the opinion that trying to jam another author's magic system suite into this rp only leads to confusion, but the point about lasting effects in established canon is valid. Instead of trying to somehow unknit them from the world or the AV lore, maybe we just limit them to what they are now, no new people using them, and if those space marine characters are killed or retired then perhaps we can discuss phasing out the whole thing at a later date.

Agreement. Whatever I voted on that, that's what I meant.

On 8/17/2019 at 7:59 PM, ZincAboutIt said:

Hello! I’ve been percolating a few ideas for a bit and I decided to throw my hat in the ring for an Era 4 main plot. This is something I’d love to have feedback and collaboration on, if people like the idea. Here is the general premise:

After the events of Era 3, the city is going to be in a state of disrepair with a lot of people out of work. To help get the city back on its feet, a public works project is proposed: an Alleycity subway system. With a brand new deep crater and canyon outside the city () the starting point of excavation has already been done! The plan is to begin digging beneath the TUBA tunnels. 

When excavation begins, it is revealed that there is an elaborate and complex system of natural caves, caverns and tunnels running beneath the city, and these need to be explored and mapped before the system can be built. What is found down there is definitely open to suggestion and interpretation, there are lots of ways that could go.

What I enjoy about this idea is that something like this would affect the city at every level. Should someone want to, the issue could be argued in the government, it could spin off a criminal embezzlement/activity route based on project funds, and then of course the people down there working or scouting or whatnot. Lots of options. I have a few conflicts and points of interest that I cooked up to be found down there but I’m not married to any of them. I’d love for people to be involved in deciding what direction it would go. In addition, it could dovetail nicely with any kind of reality weirdness/side effects of the Altered world plot for Era 5 starting to manifest. I also know that some people have expressed a desire to have a plot that didn’t revolve around the city, but also didn’t want to be cut off from all the plots and characters based in the city. I think this would be a good way to have both proximity to the Alleycity as well as a chance for new exploring, smaller groups and individualized plot lines. 

So, like a part of the planetary rift system?

[+ZincAboutIt]

13 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

So, like a part of the planetary rift system?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I just meant that there is a cavern network under the city. I haven't planned on connecting it to a wider, global system, that seems far too large and chaotic to manage for a single Era plot arc.

[xinoehp512]

7 minutes ago, ZincAboutIt said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I just meant that there is a cavern network under the city. I haven't planned on connecting it to a wider, global system, that seems far too large and chaotic to manage for a single Era plot arc.

I worldbuilt a rifts system a few months ago... interest in the other side of the world sort of fizzled, so it only got partially used.

We don't need to involve the rest of the system, either; there should be plenty of interesting stuff just below the city.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1N9FFrgwCHW8VBjO7bBf9R5Eowk5glz371KC_h0iGkDE

[+ZincAboutIt]

1 minute ago, xinoehp512 said:

I worldbuilt a rifts system a few months ago... interest in the other side of the world sort of fizzled, so it only got partially used.

We don't need to involve the rest of the system, either; there should be plenty of interesting stuff just below the city.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1N9FFrgwCHW8VBjO7bBf9R5Eowk5glz371KC_h0iGkDE

Oh, is this set-in-stone canon, or just your suggestions? I'd be happy to work with you on this but there are some things that might need to be jostled around or re-worked for the plot ideas I and others may have, unless this is actual canon for how the entire subterranean world works. The "flooded" portion especially is something I would definitely want to alter, so that people can move around down there without drowning   

[xinoehp512]

18 minutes ago, ZincAboutIt said:

Oh, is this set-in-stone canon, or just your suggestions? I'd be happy to work with you on this but there are some things that might need to be jostled around or re-worked for the plot ideas I and others may have, unless this is actual canon for how the entire subterranean world works. The "flooded" portion especially is something I would definitely want to alter, so that people can move around down there without drowning   

I came up with this several months ago and posted it, and nobody had any objections. There was also a short scene where a ship travels through an underwater tunnel adjacent to the city. So it depends on how you define set-in-stone canon, I guess. But I would be more than happy to work with any suggestions.

There's a Kraken beneath the city that can control water, so the tunnels underneath the city won't necessarily be flooded- or, if they are, there will be pathways of air throughout.

[+ZincAboutIt]

9 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

There's a Kraken beneath the city that can control water, so the tunnels underneath the city won't necessarily be flooded- or, if they are, there will be pathways of air throughout.

A Kraken, well, lol, that is definitely something interesting. Now that I think on it though, a semi-tidal environment could be pretty fun. If my idea is approved, I'll contact you with a few questions. :]

[AonEne]

I don't really have anything serious to say at this current moment, I'm just posting to point out something funny.

Set-in-stone canon. Literally set in the stone beneath the city.

[I think I am here.]

31 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

There was also a short scene where a ship travels through an underwater tunnel adjacent to the city.

Yeah, sadly that whole plot sort of died and my shiny new character was never used  

[Darth Woodrack]

2 hours ago, ZincAboutIt said:

I think these should be given a strict number limit per 40K PC character, if you want my actual opinion. I understand that they sort of come "as a package" but keeping an entire other magical canon on tap simply to justify lots of NPC lackeys is a bit of a stretch.

Edit: You can skip the last bit. It’s more of a tired rant, and doesn’t really have relevance to the debate.

Note that that is not what Ark and I are saying. All we want is to keep Space Marines, and the technology that is directly relevant to them. Personally I wasn’t all for it when psykers where added, because Epics can do pretty much the same thing. 

So, WH40K NPCs function rather similarly to the Precursors. Their a cool background element, and do frequently play in, but mainly are just there. Like, a scene setting write up might be, “As he walked though the horse of criminals and cultists he saw Blood Radiants, Chaos Marine, Cannibals, and many, many others,” or on the other side, “As she looked over her assembled forces, she saw Precursors, Space Marines, TUBA soldiers, GB warriors, and many, many others ready to fight for the Alleyverse.” They rarely cause very much actual effect, but more are just there. Now, I do not want this to be used as a ‘Well Woodrack said this, and he’s on your side,’ thing, and I don’t mean that they don’t really matter, I mean, at the Battle of the Den, they were a background element, but still played in, quite a bit. As in, the Precursors should not be removed simply because their a background element, because they hav actual relevance to the plot line. What I’m saying is, while they are a background element, they are a cool and important background element.

While I am not against a limit based on number of PC characters, this does force me and Grey Knight, to keep our Space Marine characters indefinitely, at least until this is lifted, even though I know exactly how I want mine to die, in about two eras. Essentially, we either keep these characters until they would be dead of old age, or we let the guild, and franchise we love, leave this rp, which we also love.

Personally, I find the fact that this is still up for debate to be very annoying, but I get why it’s happening. Old members of the rp want to try again, and new members of the rp don’t understand why a franchise that has no correlation to Sanderson, is in the rp. I would greatly prefer that this is closed of forever, but I recognize that that will never happen, as if we lose, the next time someone tries to add something, at least I will, it will be haunted by The Black Crusades ghost, because we will bring this up again, and try to get it renewed, or if we win, it will never stop being challenged by people dedicated to removing it from the rp. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Darth Woodrack

[AonEne]

Sorry for not touching on the main topic of discussion, but

6 minutes ago, Darth Woodrack said:

...if we lose, the next time someone tries to add something, at least I will, it will be haunted by The Black Crusades ghost, because we will bring this up again, and try to get it renewed...

be careful about this. It's one thing to bring it up when it's relevant, and another thing to talk about it constantly. It's been said before that this is a difficult time for the mods - they have a lot to talk about, we should try to make it easier for them.

Edit: Also, you could always RP them leaving the Alleyverse, if you're specifically attached to these characters, and make a WH40K RP with them. It wouldn't be canon to the AV, but it could still be canon to you, and that way you wouldn't lose the characters. Not the best suggestion maybe, but another one that could work.

Edited August 19, 2019 by AonEne

[+ZincAboutIt]

To be honest I don't care nearly enough about this to argue anymore. I will say that the presence of all the 40k stuff lends itself to other people wanting to add more non-Sanderson and non-original elements into the rp. If you get to have your random magic system, why can't someone else, etc. But again, I don't really care enough.

[AonEne]

Totally unrelated question - do the canonical Ghostbloods still exist in the Alleyverse? I don't know if I've ever heard it touched upon, which is surprising, since you'd think it'd come up eventually.

Edited August 19, 2019 by AonEne
stupid typo

[I think I am here.]

23 minutes ago, AonEne said:

Totally unrelated question - do the canonical Ghostbloods still exist in the Alleyverse? I don't know if I've ever heard it touched upon, which is surprising, since you'd think it'd come up eventually.

I always thought the Alleyverse GBs were the Canonical GBs.

[AonEne]

1 minute ago, I think I am here. said:

I always thought the Alleyverse GBs were the Canonical GBs.

...except without the canon characters and with a semi-different function (so far as we know) from the canon GBs?

[I think I am here.]

19 minutes ago, AonEne said:

...except without the canon characters and with a semi-different function (so far as we know) from the canon GBs?

Eh, maybe the characters we see in canon are just part of the Roshar division  And iirc, the Alleyverse GBs are still a secret society on other planets, it not on Alleyplanet.

[AonEne]

9 minutes ago, I think I am here. said:

Eh, maybe the characters we see in canon are just part of the Roshar division  

And iirc, the Alleyverse GBs are still a secret society on other planets, it not on Alleyplanet.

Fair

Wait, what? When was that established?

[xinoehp512]

2 hours ago, I think I am here. said:

Yeah, sadly that whole plot sort of died and my shiny new character was never used  

Yeah, Alleyverse time sped up this Era. I hope to resuscitate that plot at a later date...

[Grey Knight]

21 hours ago, RayOfSunshine said:

I have a complaint with the fact that 40K is on the poll again. We already had this discussion last era, it's gonna be tiresome if it comes up every era.

9 hours ago, Voidus said:

Given that they're currently sitting on the lowest amount of votes I'd say that putting them in as an option isn't a trivial thing. Not everyone has been around for every era and had a chance to vote previously, that doesn't mean they shouldn't get a say in what happens in the RP.

9 hours ago, ZincAboutIt said:

Maybe we could simply make a moratorium on new characters using all this WHK40(??) stuff. I am of the opinion that trying to jam another author's magic system suite into this rp only leads to confusion, but the point about lasting effects in established canon is valid. Instead of trying to somehow unknit them from the world or the AV lore, maybe we just limit them to what they are now, no new people using them, and if those space marine characters are killed or retired then perhaps we can discuss phasing out the whole thing at a later date.

So, this came out of nowhere for me. I was unaware that the existence of 40k in our RP was an issue for people, and that's not good. Does anyone have specific or general complaints about it? Because this is the first time I've heard of this problem, and I want to help fix it.

 

[MacThorstenson]

58 minutes ago, Grey Knight said:

So, this came out of nowhere for me. I was unaware that the existence of 40k in our RP was an issue for people, and that's not good. Does anyone have specific or general complaints about it? Because this is the first time I've heard of this problem, and I want to help fix it.

 

I think the big complaints are that its generally confusing that we have an RP centered around one authors works, that more or less all fit together, and then an entire other legendarium that while there are several equivalents, doesn't really make sense or fit with the rest of the universe. 

Also, no offense to those who like it intended, but the fact that there is a very small minority of the RP that uses it, and that the only reasons for keeping it around are that its been around for a while and that this small minority enjoys RPing with it, are making people question why it's currently in the RP.

[+Ark1002]

8 hours ago, ZincAboutIt said:

I think these should be given a strict number limit per 40K PC character, if you want my actual opinion. I understand that they sort of come "as a package" but keeping an entire other magical canon on tap simply to justify lots of NPC lackeys is a bit of a stretch.

It's not a magic system... (except psykers, which I agree should be removed). It's just people with advanced tech. Chaos Marines have always been a great enemy.

My other problem is that it's a guild.

My personal belief is that we should limit it to guild members.

But as long as we get rid of psykers, I feel like everyone here is intelligent enough to look at it and realize what it means. Power armor is basically shardplate. Blasters are... guess what. Blasters. If everyone here can understand the entire Cosmere and the reckonerverse and the rithmatist earth and the alcatraz earth and all the other stuff, I don't get how they can't understand simple tech.

My other thing is: if we're sticking with Brandon stuff, he has a world with power armor. So we could easily just have the Black Crusade be people using this. We also have a world with physical enhancements. All of this can be replicated, this is just more simple.

[AonEne]

2 hours ago, RayOfSunshine said:

My other thing is: if we're sticking with Brandon stuff, he has a world with power armor. So we could easily just have the Black Crusade be people using this. We also have a world with physical enhancements. All of this can be replicated, this is just more simple.

This is actually a fair point, HARRE and Centrifugal (iirc) do exist in Brandon’s multitude of Earths. However, if we end up going with just Brandon’s writing (and it sure looks like the poll is going that way), the 40K stuff will presumably need to be changed to stuff like this or Radiants with Shardplate (idk how close that is to the armor, but Light gives you the enhancements). 

It’s partially about understanding, but that’s not the whole problem here. 

[Fatebreaker]

The issue is thematic, not comprehension. Everyone understands the concept of power armor, @RayOfSunshine, this is not an innovation we're unfamiliar with. As previously stated, most of the content of this rp is centered around Brandon's work.

The way it differs from the DA is that this whole universe is based off of the People You Wouldn't Want to Meet in a Dark Alley thread. It's  the Alleyverse. It was established at the beginning that Voidus and the Stranger made the planet this takes place on. 

@Grey Knight I appreciate your willingness to  collaborate, it speaks volumes. Hypothetically, is the 40k stuff crucial in it's current form, or could you reskin them as a sect of Epics or Knights Radiant? That would make power comparisons easier and make everything somewhat more congruent. 

[Darth Woodrack]

8 hours ago, Fatebreaker said:

The way it differs from the DA is that this whole universe is based off of the People You Wouldn't Want to Meet in a Dark Alley thread. It's  the Alleyverse. It was established at the beginning that Voidus and the Stranger made the planet this takes place

Okay, Fate, I greatly respect you and I think you very intelligent, as shown by by full blown support of your new plot, but your wrong. Yes, that’s how the Alleyverse started, and it is a very large part of it, but the Alleyverse has changed into this beautiful chaotic mess that we all love. It’s no longer just people you wouldn’t want to meet in a dark alley, it’s the Alleyverse, with warrior bakers protecting the innocent, to megalomaniac assassins secretly trying to conquer the world. While your argument does hold wait in this is a primarily Sanderson rp, I feel like The Black Crusade has lasted long enough, and integrated well enough, without causing any real problems for anyone, at least not that I could see, that it should remain.

Also, I made a comparison chart, that it doesn’t seem like anyone read, so I feel like people can understand that, as long as they are familiar with the things in the plot. 

I mean, when I first joined I was like, ‘Oh, why is WH40K in this rp,’ and then Ark explained it to me and I was like, ‘Oh, that’s cool,’ and then spent a large portion of my Alleyverse career trying to get in, even though Grey was inactive. It’s cool, it has a large stake in the mythos, and, at least from my perspective, it’s not really causing any problems. Yes, it didn’t really fit at first, but over the years, it’s carved it’s place into the world and would be missed if it was gone.