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Trell is not Autonomy


Leyrann

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1 hour ago, Calderis said:

@Fanghur Rahl You mean like Bavadin possibly having sworn an oath not to interfere with the other Shards and breaking her mind to create avatars to circumvent that pact out of a need to do exactly as she swore not to.... No parallel there? 

Touché. Though I don’t think it’s quite the same thing. My thinking though was that Trell in Thomas Covenant ended up having an extremely ‘discordy’ feel about him toward the end, both externally and internally. And Discord IS a Shard that has been canonically referenced, and we generally assumed it referenced Sazed, but maybe not?

Edited by Fanghur Rahl
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2 hours ago, Vissy said:

It's kind of strange that a Shard called Autonomy - that is all about freedom, apparently, though that might not be the case? - would want to control another civilization and cull all life if it turns out it can't. And I don't think many people have pointed out what a delusional claim of action this is. This currently unknown entity has stated that their purpose on Scadrial is now to purge all life from its surface - a planet protected by who is easily the most powerful entity we know to be active in the entire Cosmere right now. So I guess that kind of megalomania fits in with Autonomy. Something fits and something else doesn't. 

I dunno, I still think that it's Autonomy but I wouldn't exactly be surprised if it wasn't.

You ask 100 people what freedom is, you will get 100 different definitions. For example in America we are united in the Ideal of Freedom, but divided on how best to achieve it. I am not going to derail this by getting to much into politics but there is a reason we have a representatives thorough a republic instead of a direct democracy like in Athens. When you have DIRECT democracy you have 1000 different voices all pulling 1000 different ways at once, (remind you of anything) and you can often have what is called the "tyranny of the majority" where well to quote Benjamin Franklin. "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep arguing over what's for dinner, liberty is a well armed lamb"

 

I am not sure if I articulated it well, but the balancing the will of the public, as well as the not overriding the liberties and freedoms of minoritiy voices (as well as DEFINING said voices) are HARD to balance as history has shown.

If you want my best take on Autonomy, that's what it is.

Edited by animalia
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2 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

Touché. Though I don’t think it’s quite the same thing. My thinking though was that Trell in Thomas Covenant ended up having an extremely ‘discordy’ feel about him toward the end, both externally and internally. And Discord IS a Shard that has been canonically referenced, and we generally assumed it referenced Sazed, but maybe not?

Actually we can be quite certain about Discord.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/96-holiday-signing/#e3187

Quote

chasmfriend's friend (Paraphrased)

My friend asked for Brandon to write something about Harmony in her Alloy of Law.

Brandon Sanderson

There's another name Harmony could go by if he weren't able to control the conflict between his halves… *to Zas* Have you guys figured that one out yet? Oh, I'm not going to say anything. You have it on recording… I was pretty sneaky with that one so I don't know if you have it or not.

 

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4 hours ago, Leyrann said:

Actually we can be quite certain about Discord.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/96-holiday-signing/#e3187

 

Well, regardless, I still think it’s more likely than not that he got the name if nothing else from the TC series. I admit I hadn’t thought of the parallel @Calderis pointed out earlier, so that could well be the case.

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8 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

Incidentally, one thing I thought might be worth mentioning is that the only other place I have ever heard the name ‘Trell’ used is in another fantasy series that I’m pretty sure Brandon has read, namely The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. He was a character in the first trilogy who basically has a complete psychological breakdown brought on by the cognitive dissonance of having sworn a so-called ‘oath of peace’ and yet nevertheless both desiring to and having tried to kill Thomas Covenant for what he did to his daughter Lena, ultimately completely giving in to his despair and nearly destroying the equivalent of Urithiru as a result.

I have no idea if anything can be drawn from this or not with respect to the Cosmere Trell, it the name may just be a complete coincidence, but honestly I don’t think so. As I understand, Brandon has referenced this series at least once before on one of his talks. Anyway, I just thought I’d put that out there.

Totally forgot this!!!

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