Boosting Allomancy with Ferrochemy

[Tglassy]

I remember reading somewhere where Brandon said there was a way to boost Allomancy with Ferrochemy, similar to how a Compounder can boost Ferrochemy with Allomancy, by swallowing the Metalmind and burning the power, therefore using Preservation to power the ability, rather than Ferrochemy.  Has there been an official answer as to how that works?  

Because my theory would be to just use an unkeyed Necrosil amulet to store one's investiture.  From what I can tell, while storing investiture, an Allomancer's power would be lessened as their investiture is lessened.  When tapping, their connection to Preservation would be stronger, making their Allomancy stronger.  

Does that make sense, or am I way off on how this works?

[Ashertliden]

Oops

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by Kal-Eldin

[Calderis]

Nicrosil Feruchemy is definitely a method. The issue is that nicrosil Feruchemy shouldn't have been available to TLR because they didn't have the capability to make nicrosil during Era 1.

As far as what TLR did to strengthen his Allomancy (beyond just build himself to be insanely strong with the well), we've never gotten an answer. 

[StanLemon]

Hasn't Brandon said that TLR knew all the secrets of Allomancy and Feruchemy? Even if not, I don't think it is unreasonable that as the god king of The Final Empire he had the knowledge and ability to manufacture Nicrosil and simply had the knowledge of it suppressed from the common people.

[+ILuvHats]

51 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Hasn't Brandon said that TLR knew all the secrets of Allomancy and Feruchemy? Even if not, I don't think it is unreasonable that as the god king of The Final Empire he had the knowledge and ability to manufacture Nicrosil and simply had the knowledge of it suppressed from the common people.

I doubt TLR had access to nicrosil, even though he definitely knew it existed thanks to his time at the Well.  The refinement methods needed to process chromium didn’t exist during the final empire.  TLR could have obtained it, but he would have needed to allow technology to advance.  He used aluminum because they could mine it from the ash mounts, and had a relatively low melting point.  So, while it was incredibly difficult to produce it was possible with the technology available.  Chromium has a melting point at over 1800 degrees celsius, and you need an electric furnace to smelt it. 

Plus, if TLR had access to Chromium and Nicrosil, wouldn’t he have described them at one of the supply caverns he left?  He listed electrum, aluminum, and duralumin, and none of those were know beyond the highest echelons of the obligators.  If he thought survivors could obtain chromium and nicrosil, he would have revealed them to give people a better chance of fighting Ruin.

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by ILuvHats

[Calderis]

The other point against nicrosil being the method he used, is that once they discovered what he was, any unfamiliar metals he had would have become instantly suspect. 

TLR could have made himself some nicrosil while he had the well, and it wouldn't have been an issue at all... But that wouldn't have disappeared when he died. If he had nicrosil, they should have discovered it either on him, or when searching for the Atium. 

[Unlicensed Hemalurgist]

Maybe it's from a combination of TLR rebuilding himself as an incredibly powerful Mistborn at the Well, and then burning one of the lerasium beads for an extra additive boost? So he basically had the strength of a Lerasium Mistborn added to his natural Feruchemy and Well-granted Allomancy?

I seem to remember a WoB that confused me because it said something about TLR's "most dramatic abilities" were the result of Hemalurgy. Am I misremembering something, or is that real?

Edited September 24, 2018 by Unlicensed Hemalurgist

[Tglassy]

I wasn't initially referring to TLR, just a method in which one could use Ferrochemy to enhance Allomancy.  We know you can make amulets that grant Ferrochemical powers, so if you created an amulet that granted Necrosil Ferrochemy, and gave it to an allomancer, they should be able to store their own investiture.  Once stored, they could pull it out at double the rate, or whatnot, increasing their connection to Preservation temporarily, thus making themselves a stronger Allomancer for a time, with the drawback of being a weaker Allomancer while storing.

As for TLR, I always just assumed that, as a Sliver of Divinity, he either granted himself Allomancy and became the first Mistborn, or he swallowed a number of Laresium beads.  Supposedly, there were 16 beads made, but only 9 were given to his friends and 2 were in the vault, one going to Ellend and one going to Hoid.  That leaves 5 others unaccounted for.  If TLR just up and ate all five, he'd be an incredibly strong Allomancer.  

However, it is also possible that he wasn't much stronger Allomantically than anyone else who ate a Laresium bead, such as the other 9 original Mistborn, or Elend. There wasn't a frame of reference to go by.  Ellend was immensely powerful compared to other Mistborn.  I suppose TLR could push and pull on metals within a person's own body, and I don't remember Ellend doing that, but still.  

I'm going to stick with my original assessment for TLR.  Either he popped one too many Misborn Pills, or he just made himself a strong Allomancer.  

 

Here's a question.  If your connection to Preservation is strong enough, you Ascend and basically become Preservation.  So...what happens if you store your Allomantic Investiture, the Investiture that comes from Preservation, into an unkeyed Necrosil Metalmind for a long, long, long long time.  And then bring it out all at once?  Would you Ascend?  Would you Ascend temporarily?  Would you become so powerful you could simply rewrite yourself so you were that way permanently?  Or would the sheer amount of Investiture burn you up from inside?  Or what about a Necrosil Compounder?  You store your own investiture into the metal mind, then eat it, and burn it, which creates more storing the excess into another Necrosil Metalmind, rinse, repeat?  A Necrosil Twinborn should have the capacity to simply boost their Investiture by unlimited levels, similar to Miles Hundredlives boosting his health by unlimited levels.  What would unlimited investiture do to a person?  

[Calderis]

Rashek did not use any Lerasium, and he was as strong an allomancer as it is  possible to be. 

Quote

Chris King

Did the Lord Ruler use lerasium to gain his super Allomantic abilities or did he grant that to himself with the Well's power? If he used the bead, does he count as one of the nine original Allomancers that Sazed mentions?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. He did not use the bead. He-- In all of this he granted himself basically, he rebuilt himself to be extremely powerful and he did not use one of the beads.

source

 

[goody153]

If we recount Rashek's allomantic strength it boils down to rebuilding himself into as powerful an allomancer could, savantism and reverse compouding. Afaik he doesn't even use any allomantic boosters like Duralumin (and he was soothing more or less the same level as Elend with Duralumin).

I feel like we may never actually know about the specifics(or that Sanderson is still undecided on the specific of how reverse compounding works) until the most likely characters to show it to us in the future aka Marsh/Kelsier (i bet on Marsh more ) but even they might not even know it. I guess the secret might really be buried with Rashek's death.

Technically i could think of Nicrosil but only Harmony knows i suppose(for now).

Edited September 24, 2018 by goody153

[tmnsquirtle]

On 9/23/2018 at 6:14 PM, Calderis said:

The other point against nicrosil being the method he used, is that once they discovered what he was, any unfamiliar metals he had would have become instantly suspect. 

I have to disagree with this. While some high level inquisitors and obligators probably knew (roughly) how TLR was doing everything he was doing, I sincerely doubt that they knew about compounding. Letting knowledge of that out would be a major strike against his 'godhood.' 

Also, I have to point out: he created this image of himself as a being of unnatural power. Unfamiliar metals would probably be attributed to that, especially if we assume that he kept compounding a secret.

On 9/24/2018 at 1:35 AM, goody153 said:

I guess the secret might really be buried with Rashek's death.

I would be willing to bet real money that there will be a point in time where Sanderson answers questions like this without any hints of a RAFO, just because of how far the series has progressed. Maybe we'll get to run a bunch of questions by him in his nursing home some day.

[HSuperLee]

8 minutes ago, tmnsquirtle said:

I would be willing to bet real money that there will be a point in time where Sanderson answers questions like this without any hints of a RAFO, just because of how far the series has progressed. Maybe we'll get to run a bunch of questions by him in his nursing home some day.

Maybe we'll find out more if we get to see more about Sliverism in the Wax and Wayne era.

[Calderis]

40 minutes ago, tmnsquirtle said:

I have to disagree with this. While some high level inquisitors and obligators probably knew (roughly) how TLR was doing everything he was doing, I sincerely doubt that they knew about compounding. Letting knowledge of that out would be a major strike against his 'godhood.' 

Also, I have to point out: he created this image of himself as a being of unnatural power. Unfamiliar metals would probably be attributed to that, especially if we assume that he kept compounding a secret.

You misunderstand. I meant after his death. They learned what he was, and knew the method of his immortality. They dug through Kredik Shaw searching for the Atium to fund their government. They found no unfamiliar metals, and Vin and Sazed both would have been suspicious of any new metals considering what TLR was. 

[Yata]

Yeah, we are talking of Vin that upon discovering Aluminium was truly fast to try to find the alloy of that.

And the same group that later discovered Electrum (thanks to TLR).

They will be very cautious to every kind  of unknown Metal.

Without considering the Nicrosil or any other weird metal wasn't in the most likely place if Rashek used it ... TLR's stomach

Edited October 1, 2018 by Yata

[tmnsquirtle]

On 9/30/2018 at 1:11 PM, Calderis said:

You misunderstand. I meant after his death. They learned what he was, and knew the method of his immortality. They dug through Kredik Shaw searching for the Atium to fund their government. They found no unfamiliar metals, and Vin and Sazed both would have been suspicious of any new metals considering what TLR was. 

I see. Yeah, I do agree, now that I actually understand what you were trying to say.

 

Which unfortunately raises more questions than answers. He had to have known about it, right???