Airsick Lowlander

WOK/WOR vs.Warbreaker (spoilers included)

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I was just wondering if anyone had a explaination for some of the similarities between Warbreaker and WOK/WOR. (I understand it might just be BS reusing some ideas)

The similarity between Nightblood and Szeth's sword at the end of WOR (black sword, talks to the user)

The storyteller named Hoid who comes from a land where "two lands meet and gods have died" and Hoid in WOK/R (a name Wit uses for himself in WOK)

Siri teaches Susebron the letter 'shash' and Kaladin has a 'shash' brand

Kaladin and Kalad/ Kalad's phantoms

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You have much to learn...

basically, it is Nightblood at the end, Vaher is Zahel, and Warbreaker is a prelude to the series. Hoid is in every book, and is a worldhopper.

(no I'm not lying I swear)

Edited by Khyrindor
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Kaladin and Kalad's phantoms is likely a coincidence, but the sword Szeth gets is Nightblood. Vasher is on Roshar too - look very closely at Zahel. Hoid is the same Hoid as in Warbreaker, as well as Mistborn and every other Cosmere novel. You can 'hop' between worlds by using Shadesmar, apparently.

 

If you haven't read Mistborn, I'd recommend doing that. It will likely illuminate a few things about the Stormlight Archive.

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And so another is revealed to the truth of the works of Sanderson... :)

The others have been covered already, but the use of shash in both worlds is (I believe) a coincidence.

Follow Moogle's advice and (if you haven't already) read Mistborn, as well as Elantris if you wish. Then take a look through the Cosmere 101 thread and the Coppermind for explanation and more info.

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I think the use of shash is evidence of a common origin of people on the shard worlds. We've also seen that people on Roshar are often named after some of the important people in their history, Shallan and Shalash. I bet there could be a connection between Kaladin and Kalad. Once again related to a common origin. Kaladin does complain that he has a lighteyes name.

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Brandon has said that the similarities between Kalad and Kaladin are a complete coincidence, there is nothing hidden there. Kaladin is actually named for the herald Kalak, combined with a suffix, i.e. (KALAk) + (-DIN) = KALADIN.

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Brandon has said that the similarities between Kalad and Kaladin are a complete coincidence, there is nothing hidden there. Kaladin is actually named for the herald Kalak, combined with a suffix, i.e. (KALAk) + (-DIN) = KALADIN.

Ah, thank you for the correction. I forget about Kalak!

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If I remember correctly, someone asked Brandon about both the shash and the Kalad/Kaladin and he said that the shash is intentional while Kalad/Kaladin is a coincidence.

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Pfft, the thing about shash...and even the hair. Part of me wouldn't be surprised if the people of Nalthis were Roshar aliens. There Investiture (Breath) is ridiculously young compared to other systems and even with the excuse that they hadn't found the shard pool (or where it's leaking), it just seems odd...

 

Yes, it's like the Rosharans are aliens (to Roshar) turned on it's head! :P

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What do you mean their Investiture is young? How does Investiture age?

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What do you mean their Investiture is young? How does Investiture age?

 

Vasher explains that Awakening is an art only recently discovered, and the first Returned wasn't long before the Manywar. Considering that there was Surgebinding on Roshar 4, 500 years before WoK, and there was Feruchemy on Scadrial well before the Ascension, Awakening seems to be relatively young.

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Yeah, Breath itself is no younger than Stormlight. I think the confusion stemmed from the fact that the term Investiture is often used to refer both to the actual Investiture itself (the power of a Shard) and the magic system the Investiture is used in. It cam get kind of confusing from time to time.

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Right, I was trying to figure out if it all came from Adonalsium how they could be different ages. I didn't realize Investiture also refers to the magic system. Thanks guys! :)

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Vasher explains that Awakening is an art only recently discovered, and the first Returned wasn't long before the Manywar. Considering that there was Surgebinding on Roshar 4, 500 years before WoK, and there was Feruchemy on Scadrial well before the Ascension, Awakening seems to be relatively young.

 

 

Yes I dont believe the investiture was actually young.. Everyone had breaths but I believe learnign to use them for new tactis such as lifeless and the new hieghtenings were actually what was recently discovered

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Right, I was trying to figure out if it all came from Adonalsium how they could be different ages. I didn't realize Investiture also refers to the magic system. Thanks guys! :)

You're welcome! Yeah, I've seen magic systems referred to as manifestations of Investiture, particularly the Metallic Arts, as the actual type of Investiture is not as easy to define as it is on Nalthis or Roshar with Breath and Stormlight.

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Oh fine, I worded it wrong...gosh, pick on it until it becomes a Lifeless or something...

 

I was  referring to the actual system of Investiture, which hasn't been in use as long and how odd that is (500 years, as Kobold mentioned). Vo only Returned around 500 years ago and supposedly died a week later, but I'm not sure I believe those legends, did he really figure out how a Return could produce a child in merely seven days? That seems quite odd. After that, Returned and perhaps Awakening started to appear in all parts of Nalthis, even in the old kingdoms across the sea...yet, here's what's odd...

 

Why did Endowment start to return people? Didn't people have Breath before Vo came back? I realize that when Vo came they were near Endowment's pool, but it still seems strange that there would be such a change in the way things were done (Endowment suddenly deciding to Return people who had died on Nalthis) if they have been there for so long (let's say, 5,000 years), but if people were only there (created by Endowment or brought there through another method) sooner (let's say 500 years before Vo)...then perhaps the reason why Breath as a known manifestation of Investiture is "newer" is partially due to this relatively later date. To a Shard, 500 years or so (since this supposed event) wouldn't be that long (for an immortal being), so revealing this power relatively late (compared to other revealed manifestations of Investiture; such as Dominon/Devotion's variable manifestations; stormlight; and the Metallic Arts) would not be so strange in that case.

 

So, really, all I'm suggesting is that the people of Nalthis are a relatively young group of humans, perhaps because Endowment created life later than the other Shards, it evolved slower than other Shard worlds, or they arrived at a later date...just as Breath, while not a new form of Investiture, was unknown until relatively recently (in the last 500 years). I was really just joking earlier when I said that because shash is a letter on Nalthis is a sign that they were all from Roshar...what would that mean, that everyone there is a descendant of the Knights Radiant or something? Pfft. That sounds completely ridiculous.  <_<  

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Honestly, I'd be surprised if there weren't a connection between primordial Nalthis and Roshar. There is the Shash letter. There is a Rosharan fairy tale about a boy who whittles a piece of wood into human shape and uses it to distract Voidbringers. There is a Nalthian fairy tale about a magic sword which symbolizes rulership of a kingdom. And of course, Vasher and Nightblood chilling on Roshar.

 

Taken as individual facts, they don't seem to mean anything. But when I look over all of it together... it strikes me as fishy. Fishier than the Purelake, or Swimmingly's profile picture. There could definitely be a connection between Roshar and Nalthis.

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Honestly, I'd be surprised if there weren't a connection between primordial Nalthis and Roshar. There is the Shash letter. There is a Rosharan fairy tale about a boy who whittles a piece of wood into human shape and uses it to distract Voidbringers. There is a Nalthian fairy tale about a magic sword which symbolizes rulership of a kingdom. And of course, Vasher and Nightblood chilling on Roshar.

 

Taken as individual facts, they don't seem to mean anything. But when I look over all of it together... it strikes me as fishy. Fishier than the Purelake, or Swimmingly's profile picture. There could definitely be a connection between Roshar and Nalthis.

 

Even fishier than a kandra that ate a magical fish? ;)

 

Yes, and when we consider that Shashara's name has "shash" in it...like a similar naming convention on Roshar.Right, for now on I think I might just call Nalthis the lost Roshar colony. Perhaps a Nalthian myth led Vasher to Roshar somehow...he just, figured it out, I guess...

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Even fishier than a kandra that ate a magical fish?  ;)

:blink:  :blink:  :blink:

 

 

 

Perhaps a Nalthian myth led Vasher to Roshar somehow...he just, figured it out, I guess...

Maybe Yesteel is more powerful than we thought.

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Kobold King, on 11 May 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

Honestly, I'd be surprised if there weren't a connection between primordial Nalthis and Roshar. There is the Shash letter. There is a Rosharan fairy tale about a boy who whittles a piece of wood into human shape and uses it to distract Voidbringers. There is a Nalthian fairy tale about a magic sword which symbolizes rulership of a kingdom. And of course, Vasher and Nightblood chilling on Roshar.

Taken as individual facts, they don't seem to mean anything. But when I look over all of it together... it strikes me as fishy. Fishier than the Purelake, or Swimmingly's profile picture. There could definitely be a connection between Roshar and Nalthis.

Not to forget the thing about the hair colours. I'm not sure how to read this WoB, but together with everything else...

Quote

Q: The hair color: is there a link between the hair color in Warbreaker and the hair color in—like with the Alethi always have black, and I can't remember the other country that always have their gold hair coloring?

A: Yes. You are noticing something very interesting which was done deliberately.

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The thing about Breath is that it's very specific, the Commands being deliberate phrases you need to speak. I'd wager that the First Returned or one of his contemporaries came with the mission to teach the basics of Awakening, allowing people to use the Breath they already had.

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Not to forget the thing about the hair colours. I'm not sure how to read this WoB, but together with everything else...

 

 

As well the Hair colors on Sel.. in Elantris is clearly identified.. I belive the blonde hair from Teod- Sarene might also factor into this??

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I'm pretty sure the hair isn't related so much with the similar cultural things. It's closer to what I'll tentatively call the rule of perception; i.e. on Roshar, the Alethi believe that a pure Alethi will have black hair. On Nalthis, the Ithians (and even some non-Ithians) believe that those who are (or were) in the direct line to the throne will have "magical locks" that can do certain things (like grow on command or change color). People believe it. Another example of this, though not really hair-related, is seen with the Returned. Returned who don't know how to limit the effects of their Divine Breath look as people expect them to look. They look like the ideal person (a physical 'god'). Pure Alethi have the ideal hair color. The royal family is magical, because arguably, that's an ideal too (that is, that royal heirs should be special).

 

I'm not sure if it's Cosmere wide, though. It might partially be due to Endowment and Cultivation's intents being somewhat similar (at least in the way that they're invoked). Endowment endows such beliefs with his/her Investiture making them...reality. This could be seen as an indirect effect of the Shard's investment like with the Returned and the heirs to the throne (even if their time to inherit is long since due). You might be able to argue this even with Breath. Part of Awakening is perception. The better someone can perceive/imagine the Command, the better they can Awaken an object to obey that perceived/imagined command. Arguably, it's all about perception...or beliefs, it's a cognitive art that is expressed in the physical realm...

 

Cultivation cultivates ideas/ideals like Alethi hair color making those reality...or really, she also cultivates Spren, making those ideas into real, living things too. Note that spren, on a very basic level, are ideas based on ideals, such as Honorspren, firespren, even Stormfather; it's like these guys were cultivated from human ideals that were then translated into ideas and finally, given a form...sometimes in the physical realm. (See Interlude with the firespren in WoK) Heralds in their physical form should follow this rule. People believe them to be something close to divinity, so, they'd probably look similar to Returned, because that's what people expect them to be.

 

This post, though, is sounding too much like theory. So, yeah, how 'bout those kandra and fish?

Edited by Nymp
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How would one Worldhop with Awakening anyway? Awaken something to Transport?

 

Also, it's Idrians.

 

On Nalthis, the Ithians (and even some non-Ithians)

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