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Shallan's heritage


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So... first post here!

I'm not sure if this has already been discussed, and I'm not really sure what implications it would have, but at the very beginning of TWoK (pg. 88) Shallan mentions that House Davar is ancient. It's often said that her red hair and pale skin are the result of impurity in her lineage, being mixed with Horneaters at some point. But I was thinking, what if these features are actually a sign of a more pure heritage, whereas other Vedens have mixed more with the Alethi?

In chapter 46 of WOR, Rock tells a story of the Unkalaki and how they came to live on the Horneater Peaks. He says:

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Long ago, the Unkalaki - my people, ones you call Horneaters - did not live in peaks. They lived down where air was thick and thinking was difficult. But we were hated.

I think the Unkalaki were the original inhabitants of Valhav during the Heraldic Epoch, until they were forced out by the Alethi and it became Jah Keved (this would account for why the religion, language and appearance of most Vedens are so similar to the Alethi).

Basically I was thinking that with House Davar being so ancient, as well as super remote/rural which would imply less interaction with other cultures, Shallan's heritage is in fact very pure, and perhaps reaches all the way back to the Heraldic Epoch...

Edited by Kahlani
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3 hours ago, Kahlani said:

So... first post here!

I'm not sure if this has already been discussed, and I'm not really sure what implications it would have, but at the very beginning of TWoK (pg. 88) Shallan mentions that House Davar is ancient. It's often said that her red hair and pale skin are the result of impurity in her lineage, being mixed with Horneaters at some point. But I was thinking, what if these features are actually a sign of a more pure heritage, whereas other Vedens have mixed more with the Alethi?

In chapter 46 of WOR, Rock tells a story of the Unkalaki and how they came to live on the Horneater Peaks. He says:

I think the Unkalaki were the original inhabitants of Valhav during the Heraldic Epoch, until they were forced out by the Alethi and it became Jah Keved (this would account for why the religion, language and appearance of most Vedens are so similar to the Alethi).

Basically I was thinking that with House Davar being so ancient, as well as super remote/rural which would imply less interaction with other cultures, Shallan's heritage is in fact very pure, and perhaps reaches all the way back to the Heraldic Epoch...

Welcome to the forum, not to nitpick (as I pick some nits...) but while the Vedens and Alethi do share a Religion and their languages have the same root in the Dawnchant the do not appear all that similarly. Vedens are pale skinned, light (auburn-reddish) hair, and violet eyes and Alethi are a dark tan with black hair and brown, tan, blue eyes. Horneaters like Herdazians are descendants of Human and Listener interbreeding at some point. I think it is more likely that they are the descendants of modern day Vedens and the Listeners and the red hair is actually a trait inherited from the Listener side as their hair strands are a reddish color.

Edited by The Sovereign
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40 minutes ago, Kahlani said:

Thanks for the reply! I was under the impression that Shallan making a big deal about her red hair and pale, freckled skin meant that most other Vedens didn't look like her...?

Interesting stuff about Horneater + Herdazian relation to Listeners! 

I suspect you she was just drawing attention to the fact that the Alethi look (curvaceous, Tan Skinned, jet black hair, etc) are the current standard for beauty in Vorin culture.

On the topic of Horneater and Herdazian - Listener relations, the Horneater jaw and Herdazian finger nails are essentially carapace.

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On 18. September 2018 at 2:41 PM, The Sovereign said:

Welcome to the forum, not to nitpick (as I pick some nits...) but while the Vedens and Alethi do share a Religion and their languages have the same root in the Dawnchant the do not appear all that similarly. Vedens are pale skinned, light (auburn-reddish) hair, and violet eyes and Alethi are a dark tan with black hair and brown, tan, blue eyes. Horneaters like Herdazians are descendants of Human and Listener interbreeding at some point. I think it is more likely that they are the descendants of modern day Vedens and the Listeners and the red hair is actually a trait inherited from the Listener side as their hair strands are a reddish color.

Sorry, but IIRC most of this is wrong. Veden, Alethi and some other languages aren't descended from the Dawnchant - only the Shin, Herdazian and the Horneater languages are. The majority of Vedens also do look exactly like Alethi, as Dalinar notes during his visit to Vedenar in OB. But there is a sizeable minority of redheads, who may or may not be pale-skinned, due to interbreeding with the Horneaters. Who also differ in skin tone by tribe, BTW. And I am not sure where the idea that the Vedens are more likely to have violet eyes than anybody else comes from?

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59 minutes ago, Isilel said:

And I am not sure where the idea that the Vedens are more likely to have violet eyes than anybody else comes from?

"more likely than anybody else" is a stretch, but violet eyes in the Vedens comes from Rock talking to Dunny. 

Quote

Sigzil said these violet eyes of mine aren’t native to Alethkar. He thinks I must have Veden blood in me.”

“Your eyes aren’t violet,” Moash said.

“Sure they are,” Dunny said. “You can see it in bright sunlight. They’re just really dark.”

“Ha!” Rock said. “If you are from Vedenar, we are cousins! The Peaks are near Vedenar. Sometimes the people there have good red hair, like us!”

 

Edited by Calderis
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