Mid-Range Game 31: Spiritual Warfare

[xinoehp512]

Ygona paced the streets, consumed by pain. It beat at him like an ocean, trying to wash him away. But he could not- must not wash away.

-----------------------

Overall, I don't see anything that really pops out, but I still need to reread in more detail. I disagree with the faction-sharing, as it seems it would give too much info to the elims. I'll get back on later for a vote, hopefully.

[Fifth Scholar]

Hmm...I’m not sure I like MetaTerminal’s vote switch off of xionehp512, or Xino’s subsequent post that failed to address any of the concerns levelled against him. Not the strongest suspicion, but I’m leery of the Bard lynch developing. 

@Cadmium Compounder I’d say that what you pointed out for Bard is fairly typical of him, if my remembrance of previous games with him is correct. He tends to voice his early suspicions and trusts in a more tentative manner and then builds on those reads as he goes—I don’t find his recent post very alignment indicative for him, other than potentially slight village for locking in a no-vote lynch instead of letting the Elims pick who died, and for stating more votes, suspicions, and defences than almost anyone else combined in the first cycle, which tend to be real analysable content.  @Arraenae in particular favours this method of weeding out fluff-posters, iirc, and Bard’s posts, despite there being only two of them, say a lot more than other, more prolific posters who never really addressed the lynch or gamestate. (Not that the rules discussion last cycle wasn’t productive—it was—but it wasn’t a substitution for actual talk about the lynch, which we didn’t get to until the latter half of the cycle.)

Edited September 25, 2018 by Fifth Scholar
Clarified speech

[Kidpen]

13 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Hmm...I’m not sure I like MetaTerminal’s vote switch off of xionehp512, or Xino’s subsequent post that failed to address any of the concerns levelled against him.

I don't like Meta's switch either, but I find meta more suspicious then Xino. 

[Kidpen]

[removed quote for when it is removed all the way]

:thinking:

Since when is [redacted] an Elantrian?

Edited September 26, 2018 by Kidpen
Removing the name.

[Mailliw73]

Quote

Above mentioned removed post.

Recommendation: Delete that and don't post it again with your normal account...  

Edited September 26, 2018 by Mailliw73

[A Joe in the Bush]

16 minutes ago, SE_Jasnah_Kholin said:

please ignore this post. A little help hiding this post @Darkness_, @Jaddeth in the Bush? I've made a mistake

We can't. @Seonid can.

[MetaTerminal]

I switched my vote since I was hesitant about pokevoting - I was just trying to get a lynch going, and seeing someone else have actual suspicions convinced me to switch. Maybe I should have held my vote and waited for more reactions against Bard, especially since xino responded right after. I’ll try not to make that mistake again.

But, yeah. I don’t have any strong suspicions right now, so I’ll hold on Bard unless I see strong evidence against him or indicating someone else.

 

[xinoehp512]

As far as I can tell, the only concerns against me were that I wasn't showing up, @Fifth Scholar. 

Probably no vote this turn, sorry... no time.

[Mailliw73]

31 minutes ago, MetaTerminal said:

I switched my vote since I was hesitant about pokevoting - I was just trying to get a lynch going, and seeing someone else have actual suspicions convinced me to switch. Maybe I should have held my vote and waited for more reactions against Bard, especially since xino responded right after. I’ll try not to make that mistake again.

But, yeah. I don’t have any strong suspicions right now, so I’ll hold on Bard unless I see strong evidence against him or indicating someone else.

 

What about your own suspicions?

[Fifth Scholar]

I see that, Xino, and I’m willing to retract my vote, but do you have anything to add to the current lynch discussion, in terms of suspicions? Same goes for you, @MetaTerminal. In addition, I’d like to invite @I think I am here. to join the conversation; I don’t believe he’s posted yet. I’d hate to lose anyone to inactivity this early in the game, and given that you’re typically a more active player, I’d love to hear what you have to contribute. 

[Mailliw73]

@Independents, I invite you to message me.  I'd like to collaborate on how we can help outside of our individual factions. 

[MetaTerminal]

I was initially suspicious of Mailiw, given his attempt to gather information, but looking back I’ve changed my mind. They don’t seem elim to me. No one else has especially stuck out as Spirit to me as of yet. I’ll make a post of my reads when I have more time and information, but right now I’m fine to go with the current wagon. We’ve already lost a day (partially due to my actions, mea culpa) and a lynch, even an incorrect lynch, would be a start. It would be in the elim’s best interest to prevent a lynch, and even push against it, so unless someone can present a viable alternative I’m going with Bard.

[Alvron]

Sorry folks.  I'm a little distracted today.  The Gods of Luck and Chance tell me that Brightness is a Spirit.

Independents, if you do contact someone, contact at least one other to insure that no one person has all the information.  Gathering everything in one area just makes them a prime target for conversion.  Hopefully we can get some action going next cycle.

[BrightnessRadiant]

@Alvron I am offend. Boots!

[Elandera]

Does anyone have a current vote count? I'd try to make one, but I'd inevitably be wrong. As of now, I'll probably abstain from voting. I don't have any strong hunches one way or the other (or at all really).

-------------

Rena was starving. Hunger wasn't an unfamiliar sensation, even before she'd been unceremoniously thrown into Elantris, but starvation of this level was an entirely different beast. Instead of pangs she could ignore, it was a constant companion. Like a five-year-old that had just figured out how to ask philosophical questions, but every word was accompanied by a punch to the gut.

She thought about the newcomers. She thought about their baskets.

The baskets.

Maybe she could risk it, just once, to get what was in one of those baskets.

[I think I am here.]

Itiah X tried to sleep.

~~~

Hello! I am here, and I had been busy reading the thread. I’m still a slight bit lost, so I don’t think I’ll vote.

So, yeah. Hi.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

The incredibly exciting vote tally is:

YoungBard(2): Cadmium Compounder, MetaTerminal
MetaTerminal(1): Kidpen
BR(1): Alvron

Today was one of the bad days, when the Voice was absent for hours at a time. Amidst the silence, even the hunger was overwhelmed by pain. Every nick and scrape she had acquired over the last three months, the sharp pain in her tongue where she had bitten it attempting to consume small rocks, the bruises and knots received from sleeping on the ground. Worst of all were her ankles, which never recovered from the hours of dances she had performed under the Voice's influence. Some part of her knew that the Voice was only making things worse for her in the long run, but the sharp pain signals screaming at her made her yearn for nothing but the blissful pain-free delight that the Voice could bring. As she crawled towards the center of Elantris, she begged the Voice to free her from this agony. No response. Ashertma continued on her journey. The pain could cause the hunger to dull in comparison, but nothing short of actual food could sate the emptiness for any period of time.

[Alvron]

35 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

@Alvron I am offend. Boots!

And just where would I get boots from?  I like everyone was sent in here barefoot.  Only those that follow Spirit get anything close to shoes.

[BrightnessRadiant]

1 minute ago, Alvron said:

And just where would I get boots from?  I like everyone was sent in here barefoot.  Only those that follow Spirit get anything close to shoes.

Why do you think I demanded them from YOU? Dun Dun duuuuun

[Droughtbringer]

And... my comments on the first page just got deleted. Let's try this again...

Sorry, I've been distracted the past few days and never got around to posting, which I should have. So... here goes my reactions to different things in the thread. It originally was going to be a my thoughts as I read things, but that will only be true for pages 1 and 3.

On 9/24/2018 at 5:15 AM, Straw said:

Huh, looks like this game has some kind of countdown going on?

Yeah, it could be a win condition for a Hrathen character, or just a everyone loses/draw mechanic. Either could be interesting.

On 9/24/2018 at 2:49 PM, Elandera said:

I didn't really feel the need to remove my vote. While I didn't exactly want a Steel lynch, there wasn't much of a threat of that happening while I was still awake. No one seemed keen on a lynch at all, unless you counted the votes on Joe. I went to sleep early (because I'm fighting a bad cold), and there were only really votes on Joe, plus mine and Mailliw's votes. After that is when most of the other votes started rolling in.

There was also a bit of curiosity as a reason behind leaving the vote. Often letting eliminators use vote manipulation can reveal a bit about their plan and who is on their side. Since they didn't use it, and easily could have, I suspect they didn't particularly care to have a lynch during C1.

As for why I didn't vote on people I found suspicious, I stated my reason for not voting on Mailliw already. That reasoning still stands. I also feel pushing for that kind of exchange might be too obvious for an eliminator, looking back on it. I didn't vote for those urging to not trade faction information because I would be among that list, and it does seem perfectly logical for the other gangs to not want that information out there so blatantly. My comment was more just personal musing rather than actual suspicion.

(Hope you start feeling better soon (if you haven't already)) Your reasoning is sound, though not really indicative of alignment. I could see either a Villager or a Elim making the same decision in your place. 

On 9/24/2018 at 4:43 PM, Fifth Scholar said:

Ten cycles until invasion. Okay, sure. If this game lasts 11 cycles we’re doing something tragically wrong.  

I did advocate against wasting a lynch, but what’s done is done. Since I assume conversions are not announced, the transient nature of my reads is going to be tough to deal with, but we should all be keeping an eye out for sudden shifts in behavior or stances. I would be very surprised if the Spirits didn’t convert last cycle, though. They had every reason to. 

I don’t find Elandera’s Steel vote particularly suspicious, but have no better lynch target right now. I’ll do a more detailed perusal of the thread and see what I can do. 

I could see justification for them not converting, if they have a team that is currently flying completely under the radar, and they believe that they will be able to keep that up, then converting at this point could just add in another thread leading back to the Spirit group. 

 

On 9/24/2018 at 4:57 PM, Coop772 said:

Actually, that's a good point. If we take 10 cycles something has gone horribly wrong. But Joe is not dumb enough to underestimate us that much. This makes me suspect that there are events that may speed up the count down. Keep this in mind

Good point. Mainly quoting this to reiterate this. I think we should assume that, at max, 1 cycle can be dropped every cycle. We should view this as a 5 cycle countdown timer for now, just to be safe.

 

On 9/24/2018 at 6:47 PM, Mailliw73 said:

Well, let's beat the Derethi! Based off of the conversation last cycle, my biggest gut-reads are Sart, Steel, and Elandera. I'm not sure how much I can flesh out all of the reasoning behind those, mostly just gut feelings. Because BR also said she felt something off about Elandera, he'd probably be the first I vote for, though I'm not sure yet.

I just reread Dashe's role and I think that will definitely be vital for us. So, whoever you are, I recommend you share your findings with us. The Spirits don't have a kill role in this game(unless they convert Aanden or a Wildmen, and even then it's not a definite kill role) and you aren't much use to them since they obviously already know where the nonconverted ones are. My personal opinion is that relatively soon, you share your raiding information with us, so that we can start to examine our factions(if we're in the ones with converts). 

Joe/Darkness, if Dashe does a scan on a gang and Raoden is in that one, but no other Spirit converts, will that show up on the scan?

Very interesting question at the end there, that I see being a very villager question. I could see an Elim asking this question if there is a lot of talk about different Roles going on, and bringing it up before someone else does so that they seem Villagery, but there was little to no talk of roles going on, so it makes me lean slightly village on you.

On 9/24/2018 at 9:21 PM, Darkness_ said:

I shall note that Wyrn's Invasion was planned to happen from the beginning.

Also to be noted: Dashe only determines the amount of non-converted members in a gang. Dashe only gets a number- it is a very broad alignment scanner so please don't refer to it as an ability that tells you who are the Spirits in a gang. Don't want people confused and mis-interpreting the results.

Interesting light on Mail's (storms your name is hard to read, too many Is and ls (i's and L's)) question. It could be a ploy to try and get the village confused by how results work and hope for an easy miss-lynch, but I'm not getting that vibe from it.

11 hours ago, Shqueeves said:

You've been rather quiet, @xinoehp512 , what are your thoughts?

You've been rather quiet as well (as have I), what are your thoughts on this cycle?

 

9 hours ago, MetaTerminal said:

A Jester role, especially an unknown Jester role, is a great way to torture your players.

We should definitely lynch someone this round, but I don’t have any suspicions. For now I’ll poke vote xinoehp512. @xinoehp512

Yet to meet you, Terminal (Can't call you Meta, so...) Welcome to SE! (even though you've already played a game besides this one...) Even if you don't have any direct suspicions, for cycle two at least we really need to get some information from a lynch. I'd like to know your reasoning for voting on Xino, even if it is a gut read, RNG, or just due to inactivity. Reasoning for the vote would be awesome. Thanks!

9 hours ago, Cadmium Compounder said:

Here are my thoughts from D1.

Regarding the discussion about revealing factions, I think it can be alignment indicative, however, I don't think that we have enough information yet to determine which factions is indicated by which statements. In a few cycles, it may be beneficial to return to look about which faction says which things. Unfortunately by then, some of our alignments will have undoubtedly changed, and we will no longer be able to trust our D1 alignment reads. However, it may help us to find changes in playstyles, etc. For now, I will ignore this part of D1, because I don't know how to get a specific read from it.

Regarding the lynch discussion, The SE community has, generally speaking, agreed that in most situations, a lynch on D1 is good, because it helps us start to get information immediately. That being said, Eliminators, or in this case, Spirits would want to stop a lynch D1, without making it obvious. Last cycle, all anyone would have needed to do was vote late, for someone with no votes, or vote for Joe/Jaddeth, or Darkness/Domi. That means that four of the people on my suspicion list are Bard, Straw, Meta, and Kidpen.

Of those, only a maximum of 2 can be Spirits, but I would expect it to only be 1, and maybe someone who has since been converted.

Kidpen was the most immediately obvious to me, because their behavior seemed very strange. But then I remembered that Kidpen's behavior is usually odd and eccentric. Storms, the first game they (and I) played, they claimed to be an eliminator on their first post. Therefore, I can't get anything of Kidpen's eccentric behavior yet.

Young Bard also gave me other reason to be suspicious of him. @Young Bard(I hope this gives you time to respond) One of his posts seemed too Elimey for me

Maybe it's just a gut read, but the fact that Bard basically voted for a non-player, then tried to soft clear someone, while casting suspicion on someone else reads like a Spirit to me. I think, thought that the person he soft-cleaed, Maill, and the person he put suspicion on, Steel, at the time were both likely village, of different factions. I don't think Bard would have tried distancing, as it's been done to death recently, so he is just avoiding talking about his partner. Yeah, so something just feels off.  "I'm not sure if that's just my clutching at straws, whether [Bard's] an Eliminator, or whether this is a kinda-but-not-really-a-faction-game."

Bard's post seem very in tune with how I've seen Bard play, and makes sense to me, even if I don't necessarily agree with it. I personally think that we should have had a lynch D1 (sorry I didn't vote at all), but it is a generally good argument to see how the game plays out with conversions. All in all, I do not have any form of an elim read on Bard from the post you quoted.

8 hours ago, MetaTerminal said:

I agree with your reads. It doesn’t have to be right - it just has to get the ball rolling. xinoehp521, Young Bard.

I partially agree with you there. The big problem comes from Bandwagons, especially bandwagons where people can just jump on without having to give much of an explanation of their vote. Now, I'm not accusing you of doing that, just pressure of two votes is pretty good, just pointing out now that we do not want that type of bandwagon to happen.

7 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

Overall, I don't see anything that really pops out, but I still need to reread in more detail. I disagree with the faction-sharing, as it seems it would give too much info to the elims. I'll get back on later for a vote, hopefully.

It would be awesome if you did. You have posted fairly little, and more voices is almost always going to help the village.

4 hours ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Hmm...I’m not sure I like MetaTerminal’s vote switch off of xionehp512, or Xino’s subsequent post that failed to address any of the concerns levelled against him. Not the strongest suspicion, but I’m leery of the Bard lynch developing. 

@Cadmium Compounder I’d say that what you pointed out for Bard is fairly typical of him, if my remembrance of previous games with him is correct. He tends to voice his early suspicions and trusts in a more tentative manner and then builds on those reads as he goes—I don’t find his recent post very alignment indicative for him, other than potentially slight village for locking in a no-vote lynch instead of letting the Elims pick who died, and for stating more votes, suspicions, and defences than almost anyone else combined in the first cycle, which tend to be real analysable content.  @Arraenae in particular favours this method of weeding out fluff-posters, iirc, and Bard’s posts, despite there being only two of them, say a lot more than other, more prolific posters who never really addressed the lynch or gamestate. (Not that the rules discussion last cycle wasn’t productive—it was—but it wasn’t a substitution for actual talk about the lynch, which we didn’t get to until the latter half of the cycle.)

I agree that Xino should say more, but I do not think that it is worth lynching him over it at this point, from previous games this is how he normally plays, and I do not believe that it would be productive to lynch him today.

3 hours ago, Kidpen said:

I don't like Meta's switch either, but I find meta more suspicious then Xino. 

The switch made sense. I believe his first vote was simply a fairly random poke vote, and then, once faced with a a lynch candidate that he agreed with, he switched to voting for the.

3 hours ago, MetaTerminal said:

I switched my vote since I was hesitant about pokevoting - I was just trying to get a lynch going, and seeing someone else have actual suspicions convinced me to switch. Maybe I should have held my vote and waited for more reactions against Bard, especially since xino responded right after. I’ll try not to make that mistake again.

Pretty much what I figured. I do not believe that you'll  have to hold your vote in the future, you tried to make something happen in that moment, and then adjusted once new evidence came up. 

38 minutes ago, Elandera said:

Does anyone have a current vote count? I'd try to make one, but I'd inevitably be wrong. As of now, I'll probably abstain from voting. I don't have any strong hunches one way or the other (or at all really).

I'll make one up.

BR(1): Alvron
Xino(0): Fifth Scholar, Terminal
Terminal(1): Kipden
Bard(2): Terminal, Cadmium
Elandra(0): BR
Straw(1): Drought

5 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

The incredibly exciting vote tally is:

YoungBard(2): Cadmium Compounder, MetaTerminal
MetaTerminal(1): Kidpen
BR(1): Alvron

And you posted this just before mine... mines better

 

 

For now I will be putting my vote on  Straw (@Straw), you have been innactive, and your only posts are about the game as a whole, and not individual suspicions, and seems slightly like an avoidance tactic, which I'm inclined to at least put a vote on you to get you to start posting, and put out your suspicions. You have at least had time to read the thread, as you have posted at least once so I would like to see at least some of your thoughts. 

2 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

Why do you think I demanded them from YOU? Dun Dun duuuuun

Gonna make a vote for that?

 

Also @Jaddeth in the Bush Seriously, DroughtDrinker? Come on man, I thought we were friends.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Droughtbringer
Forgot to add in my own vote...

[Steeldancer]

You're not the only one. I signed up as the squid of STEEL. Also, I've been too quiet. Unfortunately, I'm also somewhat sick and tired and I have no reads whatsoever. Besides my obligatory suspicion of Alvron. So I apologize for not really having anything more to say. If I come up with anything bright to say, I'll say it. For now I'm going to go to sleep and see if maybe I can come up with some intelligent analysis in the morning. 

[Alvron]

10 minutes ago, BrightnessRadiant said:

Why do you think I demanded them from YOU? Dun Dun duuuuun

You got me.  A secretly run a cobbler shop and I trade shoes for protection from the gangs.  Poorly constructed shoes that fall apart after a couple of days so they have to keep coming back for more thus continuing to aid in my survival.

[Coop772]

Mailiw 
I will explain more, but for now I ask you to trust me. He's dangerous

 

[Droughtbringer]

17 minutes ago, Coop772 said:

Mailiw 
I will explain more, but for now I ask you to trust me. He's dangerous

We really do need more. I am not going to swing over to Mail, who I have a fairly village read on, with just a 'He's dangerous.' Although, I would love to hear why he is dangerous.

[Kidpen]

20 minutes ago, Coop772 said:

Mailiw 
I will explain more, but for now I ask you to trust me. He's dangerous

 

Not this again. Remember the Princess Bride game? This strategy did not work. I'm not gonna vote on you like last time, but still.