Where's WalDo: The Kandra Worldhopper

[Calderis]

3 hours ago, Steel Inqusitive said:

Kandra can actually interact with the people their spying on. Sleepless can watch but Kandra can replace someone important. Kandra can give events a nudge. Big ones if they want.

Kandra need to either kill and impersonate someone the person trusts, which means learning so much about them that you should barely need to spy anyway, or playing a part and actually earning their trust, which takes time. 

A sleepless can just send in cremlings covertly to listen to everything. No trust needed. No real attention even needs to be paid. It's seriously like they just bugged the person's life. No pun intended, but imagine something capable of putting mics and cameras everywhere that can move autonomysly, and replace and disguise any ones that are discovered. 

A Kandra can nudge and spy with the limitations of being one person. 

The Sleepless are storming everywhere. 

[+Trellium]

I mostly agree with @Calderis, but Kandra aren't quiiite so limited in their ability to spy unobtrusively. For example.... "can you be a bunny?"

[Calderis]

Just now, Trellium said:

I mostly agree with @Calderis, but Kandra aren't quiiite so limited in their ability to spy unobtrusively. For example.... "can you be a bunny?"

Point taken. But in that regard they can't be as small as the Dysian's individual hordelings, and they're still limited to being in a single place at a time. 

[Jeffo]

Has anybody put forward Iyatil as perhaps being the Kandra (or more accurately the Kandra imitating Iyatil)?

[Vissy]

Unfortunately, that is very unlikely. Iyatil is confirmed to originate from Silverlight.

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Questioner

Obviously the world covers different planets, but most people on all the individual planets don't know about the other planets. Is there a planet within the cosmere where worldhopping is common knowledge?

Brandon Sanderson

Is there a planet in the cosmere where worldhopping is common knowledge. Um… it's not a planet.

Bystander

It's a space station? *laughter* That's no moon!

Brandon Sanderson

That's not as far off as people laughing think that it is. *laughter* It's not a space station, it's not that futuristic, but there is a place in the cosmere where a lot of worldhoppers have settled, is where Iyatil is from, even though her ethnicity is not from there.

Moderator

Clarifying question… Is that place in the Physical Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

*laughs* RAFO!

Footnote: Brandon has since confirmed that the worldhopper colony, named Silverlight, is located in the Cognitive Realm.
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Edited November 3, 2018 by Vissy

[Steel Inquisitive]

7 hours ago, Calderis said:

Kandra need to either kill and impersonate someone the person trusts, which means learning so much about them that you should barely need to spy anyway, or playing a part and actually earning their trust, which takes time. 

A sleepless can just send in cremlings covertly to listen to everything. No trust needed. No real attention even needs to be paid. It's seriously like they just bugged the person's life. No pun intended, but imagine something capable of putting mics and cameras everywhere that can move autonomysly, and replace and disguise any ones that are discovered. 

A Kandra can nudge and spy with the limitations of being one person. 

The Sleepless are storming everywhere. 

Sleepless are only unobtrusive in Roshar where there are crab-like animals everywhere.... Any other world would be like "eww! Crab! Kill it! How'd it get here?" ( points for the melodramatic, anyone?)

[Calderis]

41 minutes ago, Steel Inqusitive said:

Sleepless are only unobtrusive in Roshar where there are crab-like animals everywhere.... Any other world would be like "eww! Crab! Kill it! How'd it get here?" ( points for the melodramatic, anyone?)

They're crablike because they're bred to look like what's around. They wouldn't look the same elsewhere. 

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Questioner

Are all Hordelings Cremlings and vise versa?

Brandon Sanderson

Cremling is a synonym in Roshar for both, insect and small crustation, right? And so you would see one and you would see that's a little crayfish. Cremling is not an exact term if that makes sense. It's like bug. The word "bug" people can use to mean a lot of different things.[...] So, yes, they look like Cremlings, because they've been bred to look like Cremlings, so they will not be noticed on Roshar, but there are Hordelings that do not look like Cremlings. But they would still be called a Cremling by the people on Roshar. The occasional people (?) used the word insect, 'cause that word does exist on Roshar. Usually make refers to like little flying bugs that you only find in the very far west of Roshar near the mountains, but yeah.

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[Steel Inquisitive]

23 minutes ago, Calderis said:

They're crablike because they're bred to look like what's around. They wouldn't look the same elsewhere. 

 

Wow! Did not know they could do bugs too. That makes them WAY more useful in my mind. But... Kandra are WAY better at impersonating... But Sleepless are better at spying(in most cases)... I guess it really comes down to what you need.... If they had had a Sleepless instead of a Kandra in SoS things wouldn't have worked out at all.... But Sleepless can be in many places at once....

Ok you've convinced me that Sleepless are dangerous/cool (before this conversation I thought of them as the discounted version of Kandra). But I still like Kandra more!

[Use the Falchion]

I have a low-key, crack theory that Iyatil is the shapeshifting Kandra...

[goody153]

5 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

I have a low-key, crack theory that Iyatil is the shapeshifting Kandra...

Read Vissy's comment above

[Use the Falchion]

50 minutes ago, goody153 said:

Read Vissy's comment above

I mean, does it negate my theory that much? The Set has Kandra working for them that Harmony seemingly doesn't know about. Couldn't it be possible that the worldhopping society has one as well?

Or maybe as a revised theory, this could lead to proof that Kelsier made it off Scadrial with some Southern Scadrians between...wait...timeframe doesn't work out...sigh. Back to the drawing board!

[Calderis]

3 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Or maybe as a revised theory, this could lead to proof that Kelsier made it off Scadrial with some Southern Scadrians between...wait...timeframe doesn't work out...sigh. Back to the drawing board!

Kelsier hasn't left Scadrial at all. 

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Has Kelsier done any worldhopping?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Kelsier is bound to Scadrial the same way that a spren is bound to Roshar, because of the level of Investiture and the type and the way it happened. It is possible to get offworld but he does not know what it is.

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[Vissy]

3 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

Or maybe as a revised theory, this could lead to proof that Kelsier made it off Scadrial with some Southern Scadrians between...wait...timeframe doesn't work out...sigh. Back to the drawing board!

You're a bit off course. As Calderis said, Kelsier hasn't managed to make it off world, but this doesn't mean that he hasn't found a way to extend his influence beyond Scadrial. The key to that would be gaining access to worldhoppers and convincing them to join his "crew". Perhaps he has even created a few worldhoppers by way of telling his most trusted underlings in Southern Scadrial about it and then setting them some missions. 

[Use the Falchion]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Kelsier hasn't left Scadrial at all. 

 

 

48 minutes ago, Vissy said:

You're a bit off course. As Calderis said, Kelsier hasn't managed to make it off world, but this doesn't mean that he hasn't found a way to extend his influence beyond Scadrial. The key to that would be gaining access to worldhoppers and convincing them to join his "crew". Perhaps he has even created a few worldhoppers by way of telling his most trusted underlings in Southern Scadrial about it and then setting them some missions. 

So I remembered with the timeframe not working out part. I momentarily forgot that Eras 2&3 take place between SA arcs. Which is why it's back to the drawing board!

[Leyrann]

34 minutes ago, Use the Falchion said:

So I remembered with the timeframe not working out part. I momentarily forgot that Eras 2&3 take place between SA arcs. Which is why it's back to the drawing board!

For the record, Era 2 takes place either in between the SA arcs or during the second arc. Era 3 takes place sometime a few decades to a century later (depending on how fast technology on Scadrial will progress...).

[Ripheus23]

@ all the kandra/Sleepless arguments:

The kandra on Roshar is posing as a Sleepless.

Make that, an Awakened Sleepless

[Vargo Seldon]

It would be a good idea for the kandra to impersonate someone from the ghostbloods, or their world-hopping societies.

[goody153]

I bet the Kandra is May Aladar( I have no evidence other than gut feeling) 

[BooksBeforeDeath]

What if this Kandra isn't one of Sazed's, but is one of those evil ones we see at the ends of BOM? This would mean that there's a semi evil world hopping orginazation! I wonder where we've seen that before? *cough* Ghostbloods *cough*.

But seriously, if it is an evil one, and it's from the Ghostbloods, that would mean so much for the Cosmere.

[Calderis]

53 minutes ago, BooksBeforeDeath said:

What if this Kandra isn't one of Sazed's, but is one of those evil ones we see at the ends of BOM? This would mean that there's a semi evil world hopping orginazation! I wonder where we've seen that before? *cough* Ghostbloods *cough*.

But seriously, if it is an evil one, and it's from the Ghostbloods, that would mean so much for the Cosmere.

I don't think the Set's Immortals are literally Kandra. 

[dantlee]

On 12/12/2018 at 6:54 PM, Calderis said:

I don't think the Set's Immortals are literally Kandra. 

I agree they're definitely not the Kandra that Rashek created, since Sazed knows who/where all of them are. But given that they can also shapeshift, seem to be immune to/totally fine taking explosions to the face, it seems pretty clear that Autonomy has co-opted hemalurgy with her/their own investiture (since she can also make her own version of hemalurgic spikes). 

On 12/12/2018 at 6:00 PM, BooksBeforeDeath said:

What if this Kandra isn't one of Sazed's, but is one of those evil ones we see at the ends of BOM? This would mean that there's a semi evil world hopping orginazation! I wonder where we've seen that before? *cough* Ghostbloods *cough*.

But seriously, if it is an evil one, and it's from the Ghostbloods, that would mean so much for the Cosmere.

I actually like this theory, since we know Autonomy has interacted with the ghostbloods before and at this point it's extremely likely that Trell = an avatar of Autonomy.

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Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Are the Ghostbloods affiliated with Autonomy?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

"Affiliated with" is very wiggle-room-ish. I'll go ahead and give you a RAFO on that one, even though I can totally wiggle on this one. I'm just gonna say "RAFO"; I'm gonna do the ultimate wiggle. There have been dealings.

Billy Todd [PENDING REVIEW]

Interactions?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, there's been interactions.

source

Edited December 14, 2018 by Chaos
double post; use multiquote

[eleventh of the moon]

holy cow it's been a long time since I've been on this sight. 

[SeenZ]

OK, I read the first and last pages of this discussion. Has Rock been mentioned at all? He was attacked. And Kaladin wondered how he managed to use the shardbow, since stormlight didn't increase strength. There's something suspicious here, even if he's not a kandra.

[John Flamesinger]

 Lyatil? Never thought of her. To tell the truth, I though she was a southern scadrian? You know, cause they wear masks?

[Scion of the Mists]

1 hour ago, John Flamesinger said:

 Lyatil? Never thought of her. To tell the truth, I though she was a southern scadrian? You know, cause they wear masks?

Iyatil (with an "i") has Southern Scadrian heritage, but is actually from Silverlight.  You can check out more about her on the Coppermind: https://coppermind.net/wiki/Iyatil.