Wreith

Casting and Forging

9 posts in this topic

So in Talenel's chapter in WoR, he says they'll soulcast blocks of bronze to cast into weapons and armor.
Then, in Oathbringer, in the first vision Dalinar includes Jasnah and Navani in, they comment on how the weapons are not iron or steel.

The reason given for the bronze rather than the steel is that casting is easier than forging.
While that would normally be true, in a world of soulcasters, I don't understand why they don't form weapons and armor out of some other metal and then soulcast it into steel.

Is that addressed somewhere that I'm not remembering?
My thinking is that bronze is an alloy consisting of just metal while steel includes non-metallic elements. 
In theory, this would mean it would require the use of multiple essences to be possible.
Can they only soulcast one essence at a time?

That doesn't explain not using iron.

 

And in case anyone is confused, "casting" refers to forming molten metal in molds as opposed to the beating heated metal into shape that is "forging".
It's not talking about soulcasting.

 

Edited by Wreith
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Honestly, I thinks it's because beyond the Heralds, soulcasting wasn't widely available. Taln's monologue seems to be the same thing as before the Knights. There's a couple instances that he mentions of the Knights as if they're something new. 

If all of the soulcasting were put on the Heralds, it would be much more time effective to have them make blocks of bronze and have those cast into a large number of weapons then to come back through and soulcast each weapon individually. 

Once you have Lightweavers and Elsecallers and soulcasting fabrials in abundance, I don't see why soulcasting to steel would be an issue. I'm pretty sure we have references to them doing that in the books. 

Edited by Calderis
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3 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Honestly, I thinks it's because beyond the Heralds, soulcasting wasn't widely available.

So do we think that the Aimian-created soulcasters came later?
The Regrowth fabrials seem common enough for there to be at least one at every battle.

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I have no idea when they were made or how numerous. I don't even know if my assumption on the things Taln says are correct. It's just a matter of what I see as feasibility of the statement. 

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As of now we don't really know what Fabrial-Soulcasters are, and how and when they were made. It might be connected to Radiants, Amians, Dawnshards, Heralds, Cultivation or even Sibling in any possible combination, and there is no reason to assume that they were even available before Last Desolation.

One thing we know for sure is that they are different from normal fabrials, and Navani doesnt know how they work.

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2 minutes ago, Szmit said:

As of now we don't really know what Fabrial-Soulcasters are, and how and when they were made. It might be connected to Radiants, Amians, Dawnshards, Heralds, Cultivation or even Sibling in any possible combination, and there is no reason to assume that they were even available before Last Desolation.

We know they were available prior because a Stoneward uses a regrowth fabrial in the starfalls vision, with the midnight essence. We also know that Soulcaster fabrials are believed to have come from Akinah because of the Kaza interlude. 

4 minutes ago, Szmit said:

One thing we know for sure is that they are different from normal fabrials, and Navani doesnt know how they work.

They work similar to the oathgates. 

Quote

Jofwu [PENDING REVIEW]

In Kaza's interlude, she pulls out her Soulcaster and kind of describes, what seems like a spren that’s there? Is that similar to the Oathgate spren?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Uh, yes. Good job.

source

 

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Another thing to note. If you cast any metal, it has bubbles and flow patterns. That happens when you cast. Sometimes, you can see this on rubber tires, but most products are polished or finished after casting, and that hides some of the flaws you would otherwise see. If you soulcast it to another metal, it would still have these interstitials and flaws. You don't get forged steel when you change cast iron to steel, you get cast steel. This is much weaker than forged. The forging process is what gives it the impact resistance and changes the crystal structure to be tougher. If you change iron to crystal, the lattice structure would dominate, but the empty spaces would still be there. Metal to oil would have bubbles. Metal to food would have air pockets as well.

I don't see how you could change one metal casting into another metal forged. There are restrictions to this change, even if it is magic.

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7 minutes ago, 1stBondsmith said:

Another thing to note. If you cast any metal, it has bubbles and flow patterns. That happens when you cast. Sometimes, you can see this on rubber tires, but most products are polished or finished after casting, and that hides some of the flaws you would otherwise see. If you soulcast it to another metal, it would still have these interstitials and flaws. You don't get forged steel when you change cast iron to steel, you get cast steel. This is much weaker than forged. The forging process is what gives it the impact resistance and changes the crystal structure to be tougher. If you change iron to crystal, the lattice structure would dominate, but the empty spaces would still be there. Metal to oil would have bubbles. Metal to food would have air pockets as well.

I don't see how you could change one metal casting into another metal forged. There are restrictions to this change, even if it is magic.

You make good points, but I don't see any reason to believe that is an actual restriction of soulcasting. Perhaps it would require more skill, but I don't see why it couldn't be done.

Also, I'm not suggesting metal to metal soulcasting necessarily. Wood to metal would work too. Anything sufficiently easy to form to allow greater production quantity.

Edited by Wreith
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Exactly. If you can soulcast stones into wheat grain (or whatever that grain was), that are very complexly built then why wouldn't you be capable of soulcasting something into a forged steel, TOGETHER with the air inside the bubles.

After a lot metal things in Alethia are made out of metal from wood, because it is easier than casting/forging, and if air inside material was a problem, then structural integrity of those items would be abominal. Just think about how much heavier is stack of paper than wood block of the same size.

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