shawnhargreaves

Hoid is somehow banned from harming people?

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From Rock's story about when he saw Lunu'anaki:

 

"Were you scared?" Lopen asked.

"No, of course not. Lunu'anaki cannot hurt man. Is forbidden by other gods. Everyone knows this."

 

This tickled a vague memory of having read something before about Hoid being unable to harm anyone, but I can't find references now.  Am I imagining that?

 

Struck me as a significant nugget of info, anyway.

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He isn't banned I think from what we have seen. Hoid when talking to Jasnah says how he is no threat to her and blames his "upbringing" as the reason. Sounds more like something happened in his past that left a profound mark on him in such a way that harming people is something he no longer can do. This is all conjecture though so guess we'll see.

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Given the Liar of Partinel sample chapters, it's really not all that surprising to me that he might have ended up being a pacifist of sorts.

 

Still, it would be interesting if the "Old Magic" was a magic around pre-Shattering and existed along with Lightweaving, and Hoid got cursed from it.

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I just can't help feeling that Rock knows more than he ought to, and that his seemingly silly/mythological story will later turn out to be 100% accurate.

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I'm sure that Rock's story was accurate, but I think he just happened to be there when Hoid showed up on Roshar (presumably for the first time, since he apparently had yet to find out that he would need to dye his hair in order to fit in). I don't know that he has any special knowledge, beyond what he knows from his ability to see spren that others cannot. But maybe.

 

I think his idea that Hoid would not hurt him comes from legends of their Lunu'anaki, not necessarily from anything he knows. Does anyone remember if he mentions that Hoid's appearance matched his legends? I got the idea that he just assumed that someone with an unnatural hair color showing up from what is likely a Shardpool had to be one of his gods.

 

Then again, maybe their legends are based on previous visits from world hoppers. I don't have the book in front of me, and I'd have to re-read that section to be sure that Lunu'anaki is the name of a particular god in their mythology. If so, Rock probably does know something, but I imagine that it's not that Hoid can't hurt people; he just isn't supposed to. 

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It's Hoid's Zeroth Law. I have a post under "The Three Laws of Hoid"

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I think his idea that Hoid would not hurt him comes from legends of their Lunu'anaki, not necessarily from anything he knows. Does anyone remember if he mentions that Hoid's appearance matched his legends? I got the idea that he just assumed that someone with an unnatural hair color showing up from what is likely a Shardpool had to be one of his gods.

 

That's certainly the most obvious interpretation, but I believe something rather stronger:  Lunu'anak IS Hoid, who must have been to Roshar before in order for there to be legends about him, and these legends are accurate, so Rock was exactly in recognizing Hoid as Lunu'anak.

 

I think Brandon is hiding something rather important in plain sight here, in such a way that we all assume it's "just a legend".

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He isn't banned I think from what we have seen. Hoid when talking to Jasnah says how he is no threat to her and blames his "upbringing" as the reason. Sounds more like something happened in his past that left a profound mark on him in such a way that harming people is something he no longer can do. This is all conjecture though so guess we'll see.

 

Small correction: he says this to young Shallan; not Jasnah.

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Yes sorry my mistake let me change that. He tells Jasnah her shardblade is of little threat to him. Got mixed up there

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I always assumed that it was Rock projecting his own beliefs of what his gods can and cannot do onto somebody who appeared to be one. I don't find it entirely unreasonable for Hoid to have been to Roshar before, or maybe even pulled a Bene Gesserit on a religion or two. The mention of his own and being bad at hurting people though.....I'm not entirely sure of what to make of that. He said he was ineffective thanks to his upbringing, though he doesn't say unable. This makes me think it was some event that makes him just not enjoy killing. Heck, maybe having such powerful access to the Spiritual Realm has made ending lives harder for him?

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Or maybe Hoid is Batman!

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Cause batman never hurt anybody. With a gun.

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He almost never killed anyone. But I get your point.

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On 4/22/2014 at 10:12 AM, Numb said:

He isn't banned I think from what we have seen. Hoid when talking to Jasnah says how he is no threat to her and blames his "upbringing" as the reason. Sounds more like something happened in his past that left a profound mark on him in such a way that harming people is something he no longer can do. This is all conjecture though so guess we'll see.

It must be a bound restriction,  not an "I don't want to." In Secret History he is clearly surprised that he can hurt Kelsier, and once he figures that out, he sure shows no qualms about giving a merciless beating. 

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On 4/23/2014 at 1:05 AM, shawnhargreaves said:

having read something before about Hoid being unable to harm anyone, but I can't find references now.

He also tells a young Shallan, "You needn't fear me. I'm terribly ineffective at hurting people. I blame my upbringing." WoR chapter 45 - Middlefest

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A few relevent WOBs:

 
Quote

 

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)
#16 Share
Play/Pause
 

Shardbound [PENDING REVIEW]

Is Hoid's inability to do harm voluntary or--

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Involuntary.

 

 

 
Quote

 

Oathbringer Chicago signing (Nov. 21, 2017)
#23 Share
Play/Pause
 

Matrim [PENDING REVIEW]

Hoid gets his tooth knocked out while in Kholinar. He prompts somebody else to help him with that. Is that because he has issues hurting not only other people but himself?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yep.

Matrim [PENDING REVIEW]

And then he considers healing that at a later point in time. Which magic system does he consider using to heal that?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

A magic system that predates-- predates any of the others.

 
 
 
Quote

 

Supanova 2017 - Perth (June 24, 2017)
#3June 25, 2017 Share
 
 

A Budgie (paraphrased)

So, Hoid can't physically hurt someone, but does this ban extend to mental harm and harm through inaction?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. Hoid can mentally hurt someone, or allow them to be hurt, but when considering physical trauma he gets nauseous, to the point he can be incapacitated

 

 

 
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To elaborate on an important detail from M:SH, Hoid can physically harm the “dead” or cognitive shadows. But, not anything “living.” The few terms established seem very simplistic to me, and something inside me wants to know the extent this harm can go.

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On 17.1.2018 at 6:03 AM, TheHeadHancho said:

To elaborate on an important detail from M:SH, Hoid can physically harm the “dead” or cognitive shadows. But, not anything “living.” The few terms established seem very simplistic to me, and something inside me wants to know the extent this harm can go.

Holy rust. Then, if Shardblades don't do physical damage, he'll be able to kill with it by severing the soul?

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On 4/22/2014 at 9:32 PM, shawnhargreaves said:

 

That's certainly the most obvious interpretation, but I believe something rather stronger:  Lunu'anak IS Hoid, who must have been to Roshar before in order for there to be legends about him, and these legends are accurate, so Rock was exactly in recognizing Hoid as Lunu'anak.

 

I think Brandon is hiding something rather important in plain sight here, in such a way that we all assume it's "just a legend".

Hoid can travel through time, so it makes sense that he is Lunu'anak. 

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On 1/18/2018 at 6:48 PM, Tobbzn said:

Holy rust. Then, if Shardblades don't do physical damage, he'll be able to kill with it by severing the soul?

I'm fairly certain that shardblade wounds count as physical trauma even if they primarily cut living things Spiritually. There's stilll obvious physical damage from when a shardblade 'severs' a limb. Or burns out your eyes if it hits your spine. And I'm positive that what follows that, separating your soul from your body (ie death) totally counts as the kind of physical trauma that Hoid is prohibited from inflicting.

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On 1/18/2018 at 6:48 PM, Tobbzn said:

Holy rust. Then, if Shardblades don't do physical damage, he'll be able to kill with it by severing the soul?

I agree with @Weltall here. I think it's probably more a prohibition on harming a physical entity than merely causing purely physical damage. 

Edited by Calderis
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34 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I agree with @Weltall her. I think it's probably more a prohibition on harming a physical entity than more causing purely physical damage. 

Yeah, a "you will not mess with mortals, dude"

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