AonDor and Duralumin Ferring

[+Kelkamer]

Hypothetically let's say a Duralumin Ferring from Scardrial stored connection for years and had a lot of metal minds. If he became a world hopper and ended up on Sel, could he potentially tap all that connection and "attract" the Sheod becoming an Elantrian?

 

Side question: assuming there just happened to be an Elantrian who could store connection, if they traveled to Roshar, could they tap the connection and potentially figure out how to alter the Aons to work with that geography?

(For the sake of theoretical argument, let's assume that either distance from the shards Devotion and Dominion doesn't matter or the potential of tapping connection also maybe figuring out how to hack the local investiture or shard energy)

Edited September 9, 2018 by Kelkamer

[+Kelkamer]

Oh, I guess Duralumin Compounder potential too haha

[Szmit]

Unfortunatelly seem like connection is mostly limited to language, although we don't know that for sure (there are probably ways of breaking it like Inqusitors' steelsight). Mistborn magic doesn't seem to use as much investiture as surges, and that seems to make it more focused and limited, unlike them with the Kaladin's storm-breaking or Shallan's soul altering and that whole Dalinar buisness.

Compounder might create enough of it to use it outside of it's normal purpose, especially if some savantness is at play.

Other thisg is that Secret History and Oathbringer seem to imply that Elantrians can somehow capture Dor in spheres.

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Szmit said:

Unfortunatelly seem like connection is mostly limited to language,

This isn't quite true. This assumes that it only does one type of connection, and isn't like tin, for one thing. For another, the way in which it works for language must always be used by the person visiting a place, and only changes to the language of that place (so no translation to a language foreign to where you currently are) because it tricks your spiritweb into think that you were born locally... Which just so happens to be the only part we know of what's needed for Selish magics. 

The biggest problem would be you'd still have learn the magics, and if it is something with other requirements (we have no idea what causes the Shaod, cause being born in Arelon isn't enough in itself, and you need to go through the creepy and painful alterations for Dakhor) you have to meet those two... 

You'd definitely have to be a compounder to maintain it because you'd have to be constantly tapping or lose the power and with some of them that may mean you're not getting it back again. 

I think the biggest issue here though, is that your spiritweb would always treat wherever you currently are as wherever your from, so it's not like you could learn forgery and take it to Elantris and translate the stamps. The moment you left Maipon you'd no longer have the Spiritual component that allows you to use stamps in the first place. You'd probably be even more range limited than natural users of the Selish magics. 

[+Kelkamer]

36 minutes ago, Calderis said:

 ... because it tricks your spiritweb into think that you were born locally... Which just so happens to be the only part we know of what's needed for Selish magics. 

Yeah, that's where my thought process was for the overall question.

 

Good point about them being potentially even more region locked than regular Elantrians. It might be a Compounder could do pretty well on Sel. Be super region locked sure, but go to any region and potentially get access to their power! (Sure, not the same as knowing how to use it, but if you become an Elantrian, you have time to figure it out haha)

 

The idea of hijacking investitures has been intriguing me lately haha using one power to hack into another (for the theoretical aspect, not planning to see it in story). 

[Szmit]

@Calderis You convinced me.

I would assume that Allik was talking with strong accent and was treated as someone with foreign heritage because he was tapping moderate amounts of connection. With a propper amount when you are not saving it for later you could surely behave as someone "very local".

And if Sheod searches the most patriotic, or most connected people then mabye a sudden release of hudge amounts of connection would be enough to trigger it? It would make sense because Dor is practically a storm in cognitive realm - Sheod could work like a lightning that searches for a way of least resistance.

[tmnsquirtle]

This is making me wonder: if you become an Elantrian through Connection to Arelon, would you keep those properties? And if so, is this possibly the easiest immortality hack, given the existence of unkeyed medallions and compounders?

[Szmit]

1) I don't see posibility of anyone stopping beeing Elantrian, byt the powert output might get significantly lower.

2) Sheod happens during sleep, so you would have to consume quite a lot of connection in one night (ok, MABYE one full medallion is enough but that is full speculation on how connection actually stacks), IF it evens ensures transformation.

[Calderis]

I absolutely see them losing their abilities. Being an Elantrian requires connection and something else, and without both, it doesn't work. That's why it would take two spikes to be an Elantrian through hemalurgy. 

(didn't realize it was a spoiler box til I posted. Oops) 

Spoiler

mail-mi (paraphrased)

Could you spike Elantrian-ness? Like, could you Hemalurgically spike Elantrian-ness?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Theoretically, yes.

mail-mi (paraphrased)

Could you out of a Reod Elantrian? The zombie ones?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Um, yes you could.

mail-mi (paraphrased)

You could?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

So what you would be spiking there is their Connection to...to the planet, first. That's gonna be the big important thing. So you're going to overwrite your Connection. Um, and then you're going to....it's going to be a complicated process because you're going to have to spike the actual ability to have been transformed, that's gonna be harder.

mail-mi (paraphrased)

Okay.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Does that make sense?

mail-mi (paraphrased)

Yeah, so it's gonna take two spikes.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's gonna take two spikes.

mail-mi (paraphrased)

Alright.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

And you gonna have to get the right Connection to the right place. Let's say you spike somebody from MaiPon, and then you spike an Elantrian, you're not going to be able to use it, you're not connected to the right area.

source

That WoB gives two points. 

One: without the connection your not Elantrian. 

Two: connection in itself is not enough. "it's going to be a complicated process because you're going to have to spike the actual ability to have been transformed, that's gonna be harder." 

Edited September 9, 2018 by Calderis

[+Kelkamer]

An interesting WoB I found while looking up something else. 

Quote

Questioner 

An Elantrian, can they use an unkeyed nicrosilmind to-- as a substitute for the Dor?

Brandon Sanderson 

...This is theoretically possible. Again, the Selish magic systems do not play well with the other magics, but that is theoretically possible to make happen.

source

Theoretically possible to store and draw AonDor investiture in a Nicrosilmind for an Elantrian to use elsewhere. 

 

Quote

Yata

Is "Galladon" Galladon's true name ?

Brandon Sanderson

It is his birth name, if that's what you're asking.

Yata

Yes, I had this crazy idea about "people need to have an Aon in the name to be chosen by the Shaod" and Galladon hasn't it.

Brandon Sanderson

Ah, that's an excellent guess. But no, that isn't the case. It's more about Connection.

source

So even though it's connection and something else, this WoB makes it seem it's more about connection.

So a Duralumin Compounder with several unkeyed Nicrosilminds could theoretically hijack AonDor and become an Elantrian.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Kelkamer

[Szmit]

On 10.09.2018 at 0:50 AM, Calderis said:

I absolutely see them losing their abilities. Being an Elantrian requires connection and something else, and without both, it doesn't work. That's why it would take two spikes to be an Elantrian through hemalurgy.  

Loosing abilities - yeah. I don't belive they would be able to become human again though. In my opinion they would end up as a powerless Elantrian (like on other planet) or Zombie-Elantrian, like that one guy that kept talking about his beautifull hair that he lost.

[Calderis]

1 hour ago, Szmit said:

Loosing abilities - yeah. I don't belive they would be able to become human again though. In my opinion they would end up as a powerless Elantrian (like on other planet) or Zombie-Elantrian, like that one guy that kept talking about his beautifull hair that he lost.

The issue here though, and I'm not claiming to know what would happen, is that a real Elantrian will always have that Connection to Arelon. Even if they have no power to fuel them, they still Spiritually have all of the components necessary. 

With a Duralumin Ferring, on of those components literally disappears when they either stop tapping or leave the region. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Calderis

[Szmit]

17 hours ago, Calderis said:

The issue here though, and I'm not claiming to know what would happen, is that a real Elantrian will always have that Connection to Arelon. Even if they have no power to fuel them, they still Spiritually have all of the components necessary. 

With a Duralumin Ferring, on of those components literally disappears when they either stop tapping or leave the region. 

I would agree with you if beeing Elantrian was just a powerup like Breaths or Nahel Bond that are just strapped onto your soul. However a person stuck between beeing human and Elantrian is a damaged Zombie, what seems to imply that Elantrian transformation replaces some things in soul and body instead of just appending. Even if all things that Elantrian gets would be lost, I don't think things that make them human would be returned. 

With Hemalurgy it could be diffrent since it changes body when is inserted and when it is removed, but Elantrian transformation through raw connection would at least leave pernament damage, and mabye pernament boons (because of connection that could have been gained during transformation).

[Calderis]

@Szmit but in every case we've seen of the zombie Elantrian, both what made them an Elantrian and the Connection to Arelon were intact. The problem was in the Aon that caused the transformation, and when that was fixed, they changed as if things were never incorrect.

I'm not definitively saying that they would fully revert. I'm saying we don't, and don't have any way to, know for sure.