hoser

Alethi Politics Post-WoR (WoR spoilers)

18 posts in this topic

It seems fascinating to consider what will happen politically in Alethkar and Urithiru after the events of WoR.  In fact, the developments in Sadeas' highprincedom alone will be amazing.

  1. In the wake of Sadeas's death, I imagine people will think twice about opposing Dalinar.  Whether Adolin's actions are discovered or not, Dalinar and Elhokar are likely to be leading a unified Alethi contingent of highprinces.  Aladar is now working with Dalinar.  Ruthar is largely de-Sharded.  Sadeas is dead. 
  2. Amaram may be tried for murder and killed, but I doubt it will go smoothly.  Can he make a bid for Sadeas' province in the wake of Sadeas' death? 
  3. Kaladin is likely to be a hero in Sadeas' home province very soon.  While I doubt he wants to be a highprince, I could imagine him taking the position temporarily to protect people from the likes of Amaram.
  4. This is after the end of nations.  People will just be struggling to survive the Voidbringers and the Everstorm.  Nahn, dahn, lighteyes, darkeyes, Alethi, Veden and Azish may all cease to matter.
  5. Presumably Kaladin organizes the defenses of Hearthstone and then moves to the capital with a plan to protect people.  Unless Jasnah shows up, he will be the de facto leadership of Alethkar until the Oathgate is opened. 
  6. Kaladin is no longer taking orders from Dalinar.  While he obviously respects Dalinar, he will do what he thinks is right.  He doesn't seem to have any interest in organizing the activities of the other Radiants either.
  7. If Shallan tells Kaladin about the phonetic glyph trick that Amaram uses and Navani gives him half of one of those fabrial pens, Kaladin could maintain communications with Urithiru.  He could also use scribes and other pens that have their mates in Urithiru, but it might be awkward to set up. 
  8. I guess Dalinar and Shallan will be deciding what is done by the people at Urithiru.  Their goals will presumably be to find other proto-Radiants, unlock the Oathgates and organize defenses against the Voidbringers. 

What do people think?

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1.  Short-term, the nobility of Alethkar will never have been more united--you're dead-on here, I think.  Mid- and long-term remains to be seen.  This will absolutely not apply to home-province people at all, though; they're in open revolve in Kholinar it seems, after all.

 

2.  Amaram will become the new highprince in Sadeas's place, and will be head of a minority of leaders opposed to Dalinar.  They'll likely still work together on the field of battle, but that is it.  Remember, Dalinar had the chance to stop Amaram cold, but let him go.  There is no evidence to present to others regarding Amaram's guilt rather than Dalinar's word and the word of men sworn to him.  No chance of that holding up in a formal court.

 

3.  Not sure on this one, maybe.  Pre-WoR, I would have assumed he'd be capable of doing something like that, but I have serious doubts about him taking any large-scale leadership of anything now.  He's likely to be working with whoever is in charge, and helping to keep them honest, though.  Maybe Laral will have a role to play, as well, by the end.

 

4.  People are dumb.  They will not believe, and will attempt to profit from the end of the world itself.  It should be the end of division between men and nations, but it won't be.

 

5.  I'm very curious where Jasnah will show up.  And if Wit will be with her, or take off on his own.  Possibly the single thing I am most curious about which is impossibly fruitless to ponder regarding Book 3.

 

6.  Agreed.

 

7.  I really freaking hope that they maintain communication.  BAD THINGS happening because of lack of communication that could have been avoided upsets me a lot.  I'm counting on Sanderson to remember that in Book 2 Adolin and Shallan were essentially texting each other using those fabrials, and so Kaladin will be forced to take one with him.  Especially since he can fly, and travel farther/faster than anyone else.  Letting him wander around without an easy way to stay in touch is just stupid (from the PoV of anyone trying to save the world, that is).

 

8.  Agreed.  

 

And I'm going to add one!

 

9.  When Szeth shows up at Urithiru as a KR, it's going to rock the Alethi nobility nearly to the point of rebellion.

 

Edit: I basically agree with most of what you've said, though!  Wish I didn't have to wait years to be able to see how it all plays out.

Edited by kaellok
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. I personally think that factions will still largely exist; Dalinar will likely count more on the highprinces that aided him in fulfilling the Vengeance Pact, for starters. Therefore, it stands to reason that Aladar and Sebarial (both of whom were never very influential in the first place) will see themselves propelled into positions of power post-Everstorm. The ones who aided Sadeas will play along - but I doubt they'll like it much, so I see it as an 'united' Alethkar with problems buried within.

 

2. I think he could, but imho he'll go into hiding for the meantime; he was last spotted leaving the Shattered Plains with Taln, and Dalinar will put him on trial if he even as much as shows a single hair on his head. Remember, we're not talking about betraying a common, darkeyed soldier anymore; we're talking about betraying a storming Knight Radiant. So no, I'd be surprised to see him do so, unless he intends to set up an independent princedom. Watch out for Ialai though, that one will be trouble.

 

3. Considering his problems with lighteyes, I doubt it. He'd never take it. He might however, force someone else into the position and keep a close eye on said person to ensure that no abuse of power is done.

 

4. Likely, considering that Taln is darkeyed. 

 

5. Not so sure about this, but if it does happen I'd love to see something come up between Kaladin and Jasnah; I can imagine the former being smitten by her elegance and poise. It'd be nice to see what he thinks of Jasnah's atheism too.

 

6. I highly disagree. In the epilogue, Dalinar was still calling Kaladin 'soldier', and it seems like the Bondsmiths were the leaders of the Knights Radiant, Heralds aside. It brings to mind the leadership of the Aes Sedai from WoT - they had a council, but also Ajah heads. I think Kaladin is mostly free to do as he wishes for now, but as the Knights Radiant grow in number Dalinar will start giving him (and his squires) tasks and responsibilities. However, I do wonder who will take up Jezrien's Honorblade. Syl may not like it, but right now, the Radiants need every Surgebinder they can get, and a second Windrunner would be massively useful.

 

7. Probably, as long as it's small enough.

 

8. I think Dalinar will be the public face of the Radiants, with Shallan being the head researcher working behind the scenes, while Kaladin will probably become something akin to a celebrity. Think of it as Dalinar = Yoda, Shallan = Jocasta Nu and Kaladin = Kenobi/Skywalker. Renarin may end up being a surgeon, due to his having the Progression surge (it would be amusing to see Kaladin teach him the ways of surgery, or dare I say Lirin?).

 

To be honest though, I think what we're all waiting for is to see Szeth kick major chull with Nightblood in Stones Unhallowed. Surgebinder duels ftw!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2. I think he could, but imho he'll go into hiding for the meantime; he was last spotted leaving the Shattered Plains with Taln, and Dalinar will put him on trial if he even as much as shows a single hair on his head. Remember, we're not talking about betraying a common, darkeyed soldier anymore; we're talking about betraying a storming Knight Radiant. So no, I'd be surprised to see him do so, unless he intends to set up an independent princedom. Watch out for Ialai though, that one will be trouble.

 

The Knights Radiant are generally regarded as having betrayed mankind and are viewed with suspicion. Kaladin worries about telling people about his powers because of this. I don't think Kaladin being a Radiant will be particularly helpful in prosecuting Amaram.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Knights Radiant are generally regarded as having betrayed mankind and are viewed with suspicion. Kaladin worries about telling people about his powers because of this. I don't think Kaladin being a Radiant will be particularly helpful in prosecuting Amaram.

 

Still Kaladin is now a light eyes who also killed the assassin in white, that's got to count for something. I think Amaram has hightailed out of Alethekar, so legal prosecution won't happen under alethi law.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However, I do wonder who will take up Jezrien's Honorblade. Syl may not like it, but right now, the Radiants need every Surgebinder they can get, and a second Windrunner would be massively useful.

 

I hereby nominate the Lopen for receiving Jezrien's Honorblade.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hereby nominate the Lopen for receiving Jezrien's Honorblade.

Would that make him an 'armed' man?

Edited by EMTrevor
7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Knights Radiant are generally regarded as having betrayed mankind and are viewed with suspicion. Kaladin worries about telling people about his powers because of this. I don't think Kaladin being a Radiant will be particularly helpful in prosecuting Amaram.

 

Not necessarily, now that the Desolation has returned and Dalinar's visions have pretty much been justified, the Radiants are likely going to be seen as the saviors of humanity, in Alethkar at least. Elsewhere, perhaps not. 

 

 

I hereby nominate the Lopen for receiving Jezrien's Honorblade.

 

Interesting (and popular) choice. I have a suspicion it'll be given to someone else outside of Bridge Four, though. I would not be surprised if Adolin got it, for example. I don't think it'd necessarily be Kaladin's choice - Dalinar is the de facto leader now methinks.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7. Kaladin will need somebody to read him the messages, since Alethi man can't read.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I expect that Kaladin's next Big Lesson is that he needs to step up as a leader. He's a lighteyes Shardbearer Knight Radiant now and given how stubborn he is it's probably going to take a while before he starts using that new authority properly. He's a Windrunner, and their divine attributes are Protecting and Leading. He's got Protecting down, and he's realised that he can't just pick and choose who he protects, but he still has a way to go with Leading.

 

Jezrien was a king and at least some of the Heralds recognised him as their lord. That's the relative level on which Kaladin should be.

 

I predicted before that his next ideal will be about Leading, and be something like "I will lead those who are leaderless." I expect to hear it before the end of book three.

Edited by Wrath
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7. Kaladin will need somebody to read him the messages, since Alethi man can't read.

I would really love Kaladin to learn how to read, just all "I'm going to ignore social conventions because this is convenient for me." Maybe Sigizil will teach him?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It'd be amusing if progressing to the next Ideal automatically teaches Kaladin to read.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As the OP mentioned, Kaladin does know glyphs, so he could learn to write with Amaram's phonetic glyph method, 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As the OP mentioned, Kaladin does know glyphs, so he could learn to write with Amaram's phonetic glyph method, 

 

Even without that it would be possible to express some sort of meaning via glyphs. He could even set up a system before he leaves to make things easier.

 

With just glyphs alone he can easily tell people where he is, for example, since each region has a glyphpair.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would really love Kaladin to learn how to read, just all "I'm going to ignore social conventions because this is convenient for me." Maybe Sigizil will teach him?

The next Oath will be "I will not needlessly cripple myself to satisfy society's gender norms."

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the whole Highprince Politics thing, Sadeas' supporters have a huge weapon to use against Dalinar if foul play is suspected (and considering he got a knife through the eye, it'd take a brainless stick not to suspect foul play... no offense to the Stick). They could easily pin it up on him and claim, "Well now, Mr. Dalinar, if you're so high and mighty, how come your obvious enemy and thorn in your side is dead the second he was alone?" Cue massive investigation, rival factions, and all sorts of trouble. I can see a whole Adolin character arc where he has to deal with his father taking the blame for something he did. Heck, it could even turn him into a KR!

 

As for Kaladin and him learning to write, he seemed to be in a real hurry leaving Urithiru, so I'm afraid he won't have the time to break gender norms. He could learn how to read and write from his mother in Hearthstone, though, and grab a spanreed and board while trying to make sense of the craziness that is Kholinar right now. However, you all are right: Kaladin needs to be able to communicate with people, if only to report on the situation in Kholinar.

 

As for the leadership thing, I can definitely see Kaladin becoming leader of a fledgling group of Windrunners. It'd be a nice extension of his divine attributes, and he's still got a lot to learn about leadership. However, I see Dalinar as kind of the leader of the KR as a whole. Kaladin will have a lot of influence and Dalinar will listen to and respect his authority, but when push comes to shove, Dalinar can still give Kaladin orders and reasonably expect him to follow them. Same with Shallan.

 

As for Shallan, I expect her to do great things. She'll struggle with how to keep her identity with so many fake ones she has to keep up, and she'll have to keep her cool as she progresses farther and farther into the Ghostbloods. She'll work with Dalinar, but I see her as being a lone wolf for the time being. She still has a million things to sort through, as evidenced by her reveal at the end of the book. Hopefully she and Pattern will be able to work together again. 

 

The cultural aspects of Lighteyes and Darkeyes are steeped in tradition that is around four thousand years old. Things aren't going to break down that quickly, I'm afraid. However, with the chaos, those sorts of prejudices may begin to recede. It's not suddenly going to become a complete social breakdown, with darkeyes ordering everyone around and lighteyes becoming basic infantry. However, equalization certainly could happen. It'd be interesting to see how the world reacts.

 

The rest, I pretty much agree with.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The next Oath will be "I will not needlessly cripple myself to satisfy society's gender norms."

"I shall wear a dress and accompanying glove on my safe-hand if I feel like it."

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems fascinating to consider what will happen politically in Alethkar and Urithiru after the events of WoR.  In fact, the developments in Sadeas' highprincedom alone will be amazing.

  1. In the wake of Sadeas's death, I imagine people will think twice about opposing Dalinar.  Whether Adolin's actions are discovered or not, Dalinar and Elhokar are likely to be leading a unified Alethi contingent of highprinces.  Aladar is now working with Dalinar.  Ruthar is largely de-Sharded.  Sadeas is dead. 
  2. Amaram may be tried for murder and killed, but I doubt it will go smoothly.  Can he make a bid for Sadeas' province in the wake of Sadeas' death? 
  3. Kaladin is likely to be a hero in Sadeas' home province very soon.  While I doubt he wants to be a highprince, I could imagine him taking the position temporarily to protect people from the likes of Amaram.
  4. This is after the end of nations.  People will just be struggling to survive the Voidbringers and the Everstorm.  Nahn, dahn, lighteyes, darkeyes, Alethi, Veden and Azish may all cease to matter.
  5. Presumably Kaladin organizes the defenses of Hearthstone and then moves to the capital with a plan to protect people.  Unless Jasnah shows up, he will be the de facto leadership of Alethkar until the Oathgate is opened. 
  6. Kaladin is no longer taking orders from Dalinar.  While he obviously respects Dalinar, he will do what he thinks is right.  He doesn't seem to have any interest in organizing the activities of the other Radiants either.
  7. If Shallan tells Kaladin about the phonetic glyph trick that Amaram uses and Navani gives him half of one of those fabrial pens, Kaladin could maintain communications with Urithiru.  He could also use scribes and other pens that have their mates in Urithiru, but it might be awkward to set up. 
  8. I guess Dalinar and Shallan will be deciding what is done by the people at Urithiru.  Their goals will presumably be to find other proto-Radiants, unlock the Oathgates and organize defenses against the Voidbringers. 

What do people think?

 

1) I believe Adolin's actions will have huge repercussions. If it becomes known publicly than it would undermine what Dalinar is trying to build. He may be force to take actions agaisnt his own son. If they somehow manage to keep it quiet (I do not believe that straight-forward and honest Adolin will manage to keep the murder a secret: he will talk eventually. This will eat him alive until he does), it would still cause a rift in the Kohlin's family. Adolin's fall from grace has been heavyly hinted (only none KR member of the family, murderer, etc). No matter what happens with the Kohlin's family, I do not think it will be as simple as what you suggest.

 

2) I doubt Amaram will be trialed as murderer. I believbe Amaram will take over Sadeas's role as our resisdent bad guy. He'll wiggle out of Dalinar's accusation and will probably take over the highprince's seat.

 

3) Kaladin will continu his journey towards being a hero, I agree. However, I do not think he will fit in the shoes of the highprince. He may end up in the rebellion that started that sprouted in Kohlinar. I could see him in the role of the reluctant leader of the rebellion of the darkeyes.

 

4) I guess this will happen at some point, but not in book three.

 

5) Yeah, fits with my 3. Could be. Kal will probably have a role to play in the rebellion.

 

6) No. I do not see that happening. He will most likely be cut off Dalinar, but he has too much respect for him to go rogue. If he is stuck leading a rebellion, he will try to make thinks good with Dalinar at the same time.

 

7) I do not forsee Kal learning to read. If we see a none ardent man read, it will most likely be Renarin.

 

8) Yes. I think much effort will be spent in the next book to find the remaining 6. Elhokar received a message from Azir inviting him to visit and expose his point. I think this will happen which would put Lift in contact with the main crew. Szeth, good or bad, will make himself known in book 3, Ehsonai in book 4. Jasnah will come back in book 3. Taln will come back to himself probably folliwng Szeth's story arc. The only wildcard we have is our Dustbringer (assuming Eshonai is our Willshaper) and if Adolin fits in those shoes or not. However, I strongly suspect that, by book 5, we will have a full crew of 10. Number 10 however, may only manifest itself in book 5.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.