65 posts in this topic

I don't think that Lopen is the only squire we have seen.  During the battle at the end of WoR, many of Kaladin's bridgemen are glowing.  Two of them, working together, are able to save Adolin, who was in shardplate, from falling.  Still, I think you are right with what squires are.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think that Lopen is the only squire we have seen.  During the battle at the end of WoR, many of Kaladin's bridgemen are glowing.  Two of them, working together, are able to save Adolin, who was in shardplate, from falling.  Still, I think you are right with what squires are.

Darn it. I forgot about that. Thanks, I'll revise my claim about Lopen being the first. I don't think it gives any additional information, though.

Edited by Aether
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before WoR came out, I had theories that Shallan's "collection" of people she had sketched would be important somehow. I think that the new collection she started is going to include all of her squires.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can get behind most of this. A few links that may be of use to you:
 
Quote on Squires:

Q [31:13]: Shallan has this awesome Memory thing going on, Jasnah has this geolocation thing, Kaladin is a really good fighter - are those just their traits, or is there something supernatural going on? (You will notice my amazing mastery over the English language here, expressed in these beautifully structured sentences...)
A: There is something supernatural about those. Each Order... Well, how about this. If you look at scholars' interpretations, there are some scholars who think that these things are not supernatural, and some who think that they are. But, if you look, many Lightweavers had powerful mnemonic abilities.
Q: So it's definitely tied to the Orders?
A: It's tied to the Orders. Now, I am not going to say that you've got them all 100% correct, but each Order, there are things that come with Order, things that do not add up from simple the "you get this power plus this power," there is something else going on. And I would say that for Windrunners, watch the number of squires and the power of the squires... these are abnormal for the Windrunners.
Q: And each Order's squires are somehow different from the other Orders'?
A: Yeeeaaaa... some Orders do not have them.
Q: But some have more?
A: Yea.

 
WoP on Squires in WoK (embedded in a thread about Squires):

You should look for squires in the first book too. (And I'm not talking about the prelude.)

 
 
WoB on Lopen's arm:

Q [1:01:52]: Why can Stormlight heal Lopen's arm, but can't heal Kaladin's scars?
A: Because a lot of the healing in the cosmere works on principles of expectation and how you envision yourself. 
Q: So Kaladin has accepted the scars.
A: And Lopen never accepted the one arm. It's one of these ties when I built the magic systems that I wanted certain threads to run through them, so when I eventually have them being used in the same books, there will be consistency among them, so they won't feel like everything's just thrown together. So, the intention and expectation, for instance, in Warbreaker. What you want to have happen, the expectation, the way you are thinking about things, all that influences what actually happens. Very important for most of the cosmere magics.

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its possible that Kaladin's squires will probably be able to fly somehow.  Otherwise, most of the time Kaladin's squires won't be able to help him as he has to constantly rush off to save different people.  The quote about the windrunners coming with a considerable number of their squires implies to me that either the squires can keep up with the windrunners somehow, or the windrunners chose to just walk. Unfortunately, the context doesn't make it clear, but I think the windrunners came at best speed rather than walked.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its possible that Kaladin's squires will probably be able to fly somehow.  Otherwise, most of the time Kaladin's squires won't be able to help him as he has to constantly rush off to save different people.  The quote about the windrunners coming with a considerable number of their squires implies to me that either the squires can keep up with the windrunners somehow, or the windrunners chose to just walk. Unfortunately, the context doesn't make it clear, but I think the windrunners came at best speed rather than walked.

 

Maybe Windrunners can affect their squires as easily as they can affect themselves. Maybe they can even use their squires' Stormlight to use the surges on them. (complete theorizing)

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or the Windrunner could just Full Lash them all into a big ball of Squires, then Basic Lash that ball into the desired direction. An efficient, if somewhat brutal and intimate, means of transportation.

14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Until the next book inevitably proves me wrong, I'm of the opinion that squires only receive the direct effects of stormlight, i.e. increased strength, reflexes, and healthing, not the surge abilities.

The squires are in a way bonding the knight and gaining access to stormlight but you have to have a direct nahel bond to a spren to receive the surges.

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't have the quote to hand, but one I like is Teft in TWoK when he sees Kaladin fight at the end of the book and says that Stormlight doesn't grant abilities but perfects them. Kaladin, an excellent fighter, becomes a force of nature. So anyone's special physical skills will become exceptional. The example I used in a different thread was Rock's stew archery becoming amazing.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't have the quote to hand, but one I like is Teft in TWoK when he sees Kaladin fight at the end of the book and says that Stormlight doesn't grant abilities but perfects them. Kaladin, an excellent fighter, becomes a force of nature. So anyone's special physical skills will become exceptional. The example I used in a different thread was Rock's stew archery becoming amazing.

The glowing hands of Rock will now be able to stir that stew to perfection!

8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you are right on this. I am afraid to learn why WRs need so many though. And the squires flying should be easy. All Kal is doing is lashing himself in the right direction. He can do that with anything. I look forward to seeing him practice that.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you are right on this. I am afraid to learn why WRs need so many though. And the squires flying should be easy. All Kal is doing is lashing himself in the right direction. He can do that with anything. I look forward to seeing him practice that.

Just partially lash them so they are weightless, lash them to your belt buckle, and voila you have a trailing set of bridgemen balloons.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you are right on this. I am afraid to learn why WRs need so many though. And the squires flying should be easy. All Kal is doing is lashing himself in the right direction. He can do that with anything. I look forward to seeing him practice that.

 

I don't think it's "need." In fact I'm not convinced that it's specifically a special power of Windrunners to have more Squires than the other orders. What I think is that the two attributes of a Windrunner are Protecting and Leading, and that these lead to them forming strong bonds with larger groups than other Knights Radiant. Enhanced charisma as the supernatural skill, that is. More Squires because they lead larger groups, stronger Squires because the bonds are stronger and more power can be transferred.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its possible that Kaladin's squires will probably be able to fly somehow.  Otherwise, most of the time Kaladin's squires won't be able to help him as he has to constantly rush off to save different people.  The quote about the windrunners coming with a considerable number of their squires implies to me that either the squires can keep up with the windrunners somehow, or the windrunners chose to just walk. Unfortunately, the context doesn't make it clear, but I think the windrunners came at best speed rather than walked.

 

I don't think it's really that important for the squires to be able to get around quickly. From a tactical perspective, it would be pretty reasonable if the squires primarily held ground after the Windrunner achieved breakthrough or dealt with a enemy attack. The main problem Kaladin has is not that he needs more firepower (he by himself is probably enough to deal with any typical force, let alone a whole squad of Windrunners) but he needs people to cover areas where he's not, and hold out when things get bad until he can get there (this is effectively what happens at the end of WoR). So Kaladin flies around putting out fires, the squires (probably working with Stonewards) come in after to hold the ground and protect the area from any moderate threats, standing on against bigger threats until Kaladin can get back to deal with it. Air Cav + heavy infantry, basically.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just partially lash them so they are weightless, lash them to your belt buckle, and voila you have a trailing set of bridgemen balloons.

 

Now I have this mental image of the house from UP, with the balloons replaced by bridge four. :blink:

9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's really that important for the squires to be able to get around quickly. From a tactical perspective, it would be pretty reasonable if the squires primarily held ground after the Windrunner achieved breakthrough or dealt with a enemy attack. The main problem Kaladin has is not that he needs more firepower (he by himself is probably enough to deal with any typical force, let alone a whole squad of Windrunners) but he needs people to cover areas where he's not, and hold out when things get bad until he can get there (this is effectively what happens at the end of WoR). So Kaladin flies around putting out fires, the squires (probably working with Stonewards) come in after to hold the ground and protect the area from any moderate threats, standing on against bigger threats until Kaladin can get back to deal with it. Air Cav + heavy infantry, basically.

 

I see what your getting at, but that only works over a small area.  The quote in the book about the Windrunners coming with a considerable number of squires sounds like it is talking about some big event.  I am assuming that whatever event happened that drew the Windrunners and their squires probably didn't happen really close to a group of Windrunners with their squires, I am assuming that they probably had some distance to travel.  I don't really have any strong evidence, its just something that I expect we would see.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see what your getting at, but that only works over a small area. The quote in the book about the Windrunners coming with a considerable number of squires sounds like it is talking about some big event.  I am assuming that whatever event happened that drew the Windrunners and their squires probably didn't happen really close to a group of Windrunners with their squires, I am assuming that they probably had some distance to travel.  I don't really have any strong evidence, its just something that I expect we would see.

I fail to see to see the grounds for that. Yes, it was probably a big event, but there is nothing that implies that they had to have come from far away. Remember, even if they couldn't just lash their Squires around, that the world was a considerably smaller place back then, with access to Oathgates.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed, it's implied that the event they are attending takes place in Urithiru, making Oathgate travel the most likely explanation. Remember that all the other orders of Knights Radiant were in attendance too, so flying was not a prerequisite to get there in time.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed, it's implied that the event they are attending takes place in Urithiru, making Oathgate travel the most likely explanation. Remember that all the other orders of Knights Radiant were in attendance too, so flying was not a prerequisite to get there in time.

Wait, what now? Only the Skybreakers - who also have access to the Gravity surge - are noted as attending the same event, and the location is never mentioned. The only other passage from the same chapter of "the Words of Radiance" talks about the Skybreakers' strangely excellent debating skills. Of course, it might be taking place in Urithiru, and other Orders might be present as well, but we don't really have any inkling either way.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe the squires are the ones that made the most out of the old school Fabrials? and that is why they were fundamentally different, because the squire had the ability to hold Stormlight so was able to entice the Spren that cause/are attracted to, the use of the surge, meaning that they didn't have to trap a Spren they just needed them to be around.

My next question is why were the Soulcaster Fabrials the only ones to survive? Why not the Regrowth Fabrials? Or any of the other ones.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe the squires are the ones that made the most out of the old school Fabrials? and that is why they were fundamentally different, because the squire had the ability to hold Stormlight so was able to entice the Spren that cause/are attracted to, the use of the surge, meaning that they didn't have to trap a Spren they just needed them to be around. My next question is why were the Soulcaster Fabrials the only ones to survive? Why not the Regrowth Fabrials? Or any of the other ones.

I think Nale had a Regrowth fabrial to revive Szeth with.  I don't know that the other fabrials did not survive.  My questions are: Why did the Radiants pass on exactly the fabrials they did? What did they do with the others?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about Shallan's squires? I definitely agree that I would love to see good'ol Gaz get his eye back, but what is the likeliness of the the lightweavers getting squires. I mean if we look at the skill set of the lightweavers what do we think that the most likely outcome of there role as radiants would be?

 

Assassins, or spys. Assassins is debatable but I think it is likely, now if people that were close to said Radiant even undercover started glowing then I think the cat would be out of the bag and they would have to get away. so I find the chances of squires for Shallan low. But if we were to put a simple condition on the squiredom like, Shallan has to trust them, and they have to know she is a radiant before they can achieve squiredom.

 

But then we have to ask ourselves what help would a glowy hanger on be to a lightweaver, perhaps if they get into a fight they might help, but I think a good lightweaver could probably talk themselves out of an execution if given the chance so I find that benefit unlikely.

 

so the new questions from that are:

 

-Why would Shallan need squires?

-What would it take to become one?

Edited by signspace13
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaladin Stormblessed and the Thousand Squires! Suddenly Lews Therin and the Hundred Companions pale in comparison. 

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Nale had a Regrowth fabrial to revive Szeth with.  I don't know that the other fabrials did not survive.  My questions are: Why did the Radiants pass on exactly the fabrials they did? What did they do with the others?

 

I have been kicking a theory around in my head that the Dawnsingers were the Aiminians and that the Dawnshards were the ancient Shardplate. I have started to think, with no real evidence, that the reason they were so much more powerful back in the day was because they were a combination of Shardplate and Soulcaster and that is why the Soulcasters are the only Fabrials to survive in large quantities.

 

I have also started to think, again no real evidence, that the reason the ancient Fabrials were so different is because they didn't need a Spren to be trapped in a gem they instead voluntarily entered the gem and benefited by gaining a small amount of intelligence, similar to the bond the Parshendi have with Spren.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.