"Fullborn"

[Cstryon]

I didn't look through the whole thread, but I had a thought. We know in AoL that mistborn are considered mythological (at least to Wax) and we saw no evidence of full feruchemists. But there are twinborn. Now obviously it's getting rare to be born a ferring or a misting, let alone twinborn. But just like before the final ascension, wouldn't the genetic possibility still be there? So even though it's exceedingly rare, wouldn't we have the potential of a "fullborn"?

Unless Sazed just made it impossible.

[Shaggai]

I didn't look through the whole thread, but I had a thought. We know in AoL that mistborn are considered mythological (at least to Wax) and we saw no evidence of full feruchemists. But there are twinborn. Now obviously it's getting rare to be born a ferring or a misting, let alone twinborn. But just like before the final ascension, wouldn't the genetic possibility still be there? So even though it's exceedingly rare, wouldn't we have the potential of a "fullborn"?

Unless Sazed just made it impossible.

Possible, certainly, but Allomancy and Feruchemy are rare on their own, Twinborn are even rarer, and the chances of being either Mistborn or full Feruchemist are so low that nobody's heard of them for three hundred years. A Fullborn would be so unlikely as to be effectively impossible to happen.

[jag519]

There has never been any evidence of a fullborn existing.

Twinawesome exists because a full feruchemist became a mistborn. It looks like if a mistborn and reuchemist mate that they would only make twinborn, even if it was a full mistborn and feruchememist. 

[Shadowspren]

Connor the Shardholder and I thought that Godborn would be fitting... 

[11thorderknight]

It definitely sounds like Sazed did something to the population to do away with Mistborn (other than Spook, who was the last). Either that, or the fact that most of them died during the last days of the Final Empire was enough to do away with new ones. Also, we know that genetic mixing of the Terris population with the general gene pool drastically altered the expression of feruchemy by allowing the existence of Ferrings; it stands to reason that it could similarly have had an effect on the expression of allomancy by making it impossible, or much less likely, for at individual to be Mistborn. Maybe everyone who would have been Mistborn without Terris heritage is now Twinborn instead. 

 

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that Keepers (full feruchemists) still exist. I think there was word of Brandon on it, and the Ars Arcanum certainly implies it when it talks about the properties of the spiritual metals. I do think though, that it's probably just as rare as it was during the Final Empire, since it would require a person to be pure Terris, which is pretty rare in the modern era. I suspect the Terris population still keep the existence of Keepers a secret from the world at large.

[Djando Je]

I have to agree. The Ars Arcanum makes references to "the Terris community" which sounds like it would be something separate from the general population (i.e. located separately). This is actually very likely to be the case. In AoL the story focuses on Elendel and the Roughs and makes little to no references to other locations (excepting the story in the Elendel Daily about people across the sea and the Koloss tribe) Also looking at the broadside Allomancer Jack talks about his Terris companion who said he made use of one of his metalminds to get Jack's gun. I feel like full feruchemists are only present in the pure Terris community and that said community keeps its aloof from the rest of the known world. 

[Djando Je]

I could be wrong though. I haven't been active on here in a long time so I could very well have missed some revelation from Brandon that disproves my theory.

[David Coppercloud]

Feruchemy was well hidden in the time of the Last Empire, and I don't think the Terris would break the habit of keeping their abilities hidden just because they could. 

[StoneWalker]

Remember, the Inquisitors needed Keepers around to get spikes, and they couldn't get them from Ferrings (because there weren't any) like they could from Mistings for allomantic traits. I bet TLR let the Terris think they were oh-so-smart for tricking him and managing to keep the Keepers alive, while in reality he totally knew what was going on and was selectively "catching" them whenever he needed a spike.

Except TLR DIDN'T want/have feruchemist Inquisitors, he only granted them 9 spikes with the powers of Allomancy. It wasn't until after the Collapse the Inquisitors started collecing Feruchemical powers.

I would imagine Harmony is manipulating those with the capacity to be Twinborn so that they only have access to one each, thereby keeping a bunch of Lord Rulers walking around.

Edited July 11, 2014 by SilverMisting

[Kurkistan]

Except TLR DIDN'T want/have feruchemist Inquisitors, he only granted them 9 spikes with the powers of Allomancy. It wasn't until after the Collapse the Inquisitors started collecing Feruchemical powers.

Nope, a lot of them had Feruchemical Gold spikes. They were in the habit of reusing them, though, and you're right that sometimes they went without.

 

Source:

Brandon: Right. Well the thing you've gotta remember is that, with the powers they're given, they're pretty much immune to disease and things like that, particularly after they've gained their healing spike.

 

17th Shard: Right. Is that common to all Inquisitors?

 

Brandon: It does not come to all. It comes to almost all. That's a pretty common one, but being an Inquisitor does not mean you get it. I think it mentions in the books that there's one spike that they all get, but I can't remember what it is.

 

17th Shard: I would imagine that would…well, okay, a steel spike so they could see.

 

Brandon: Right. Yeah, obvious, but the thing is you've gotta have a Keeper to be able give a healing spike.

 

17th Shard: Exactly.

 

Brandon: The ones alive now pretty much all have healing spikes, but there were times throughout history when he needed a new Inquisitor and he didn't have a Keeper (a Feruchemist) handy. He could make an Inquisitor without that.

 

17th Shard: So…

 

Brandon: That is not what's keeping them alive from the spikes being driven through their bodies.

 

17th Shard: So the linchpin spike is not always the same type of spike.

 

Brandon: It doesn't have to be. The linchpin spike is just, when you're putting that many spikes together into somebody it needs a spike to coordinate them all. That is part of what's holding their body together from all of this damage, and it doesn't have to be the healing spike. The nature of Feruchemy is separate from that, if that makes any sense. For instance, you could put a few spikes into an Inquisitor without a linchpin spike, and they wouldn't die.

------ 

 

I would imagine Harmony is manipulating those with the capacity to be Twinborn so that they only have access to one each, thereby keeping a bunch of Lord Rulers walking around.

 

No again, it's just a consequence of crossing the streams.

 

Source:

WETLANDERNW

Why do the Twinborn in Alloy of Law have only one feruchemical power, when all previous feruchemists, in spite of breeding programs, could use all the metals? (from travyl) Or were Ferrings always part of the system and we just didn't meet them in Mistborn? (my addition)

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

The Ferrings are a new development since Mistborn, as the Feruchemists have been interbreeding with the Allomancers. Basically, the Allomancy genes interfere with the Feruchemistry genes, breaking it down and creating the limitations we see in Alloy of Law. (His response to this was really fun—he found it a very perceptive question, and enjoyed talking about it. I wish I'd had my recorder handy so I could give you the full transcript instead of the boiled-down version.)

Edited July 15, 2014 by Kurkistan

[killersquirrel59]

Except TLR DIDN'T want/have feruchemist Inquisitors, he only granted them 9 spikes with the powers of Allomancy. It wasn't until after the Collapse the Inquisitors started collecing Feruchemical powers.

I would imagine Harmony is manipulating those with the capacity to be Twinborn so that they only have access to one each, thereby keeping a bunch of Lord Rulers walking around.

It's actually noted in the original trilogy that a typical Inquisitor had 11 Spikes. If we assume that 10 are the typical powers of Allomancy in that time (including Gold and Atium) that still leaves 1 more. This has to be Feruchemical gold. What else could the bind spike be that kills them if it is pulled out? The only way Inquisitors survive the process is by compounding Gold, an ability also seen in Vin's first fight with Inquisitors in Kredik Shaw.

[Voidus]

It's actually noted in the original trilogy that a typical Inquisitor had 11 Spikes. If we assume that 10 are the typical powers of Allomancy in that time (including Gold and Atium) that still leaves 1 more. This has to be Feruchemical gold. What else could the bind spike be that kills them if it is pulled out? The only way Inquisitors survive the process is by compounding Gold, an ability also seen in Vin's first fight with Inquisitors in Kredik Shaw.

Almost no Inquisitors knew how to compound, the linchpin spike killing them is just an effect from hemalurgy, the spikes weren't always the same for all the Inquisitors, almost all of them had Feruchemical gold but there were times when some didn't.

[Oudeis]

I'm just gonna speak up quickly in favor of ignorance; none of us know how hemalurgy works. We've got a few very basic ideas, but Inquisitors are the most complicated, most Spiked hemalurgic creation we've ever seen. We can (and everyone should) feel free to make guesses as to which spike is which, which powers were granted, what's special about the linchpin, and everything else, but at the end of the day, we will have to wait until more information is revealed before we actually know for sure. Perhaps the linchpin is something that seems innocuous, like a spike for human emotional stability, but it has some bizarre effect in the Spiritual Realm of keeping the other 10 spikes aligned, and without it they rip the user's spiritweb apart. As I say, there's no direct reason to think that, but hemalurgy is so mysterious an art, almost anything is possible at this point. Fortunately, Shadows of Self is in the works, and it promises at least a few more hemalurgic scraps for us.

[Kurkistan]

This might be helpful (I believe it's what Voidus is referring to).

 

Source:

Brandon: Right. Well the thing you've gotta remember is that, with the powers [inquisitors are] given, they're pretty much immune to disease and things like that, particularly after they've gained their healing spike.

 

17th Shard: Right. Is that common to all Inquisitors?

 

Brandon: It does not come to all. It comes to almost all. That's a pretty common one, but being an Inquisitor does not mean you get it. I think it mentions in the books that there's one spike that they all get, but I can't remember what it is.

 

17th Shard: I would imagine that would…well, okay, a steel spike so they could see.

 

Brandon: Right. Yeah, obvious, but the thing is you've gotta have a Keeper to be able give a healing spike.

 

17th Shard: Exactly.

 

Brandon: The ones alive now pretty much all have healing spikes, but there were times throughout history when he needed a new Inquisitor and he didn't have a Keeper (a Feruchemist) handy. He could make an Inquisitor without that.

 

17th Shard: So…

 

Brandon: That is not what's keeping them alive from the spikes being driven through their bodies.

 

17th Shard: So the linchpin spike is not always the same type of spike.

 

Brandon: It doesn't have to be. The linchpin spike is just, when you're putting that many spikes together into somebody it needs a spike to coordinate them all. That is part of what's holding their body together from all of this damage, and it doesn't have to be the healing spike. The nature of Feruchemy is separate from that, if that makes any sense. For instance, you could put a few spikes into an Inquisitor without a linchpin spike, and they wouldn't die.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Redbird]

Fullmetal Feruchemist: Brotherhood

Metal limbs would make fighting stronger allomancers quite difficult. 

[BramFinem]

I think that it is said that you cannot naturally become a fullborn somewhere, though I can't for the life of me remember where. And just personally, before I heard the term fullborn I always called it masterborn.

[natc]

Well, Mistborn were not a natural phenomenon either prior to Rashek's Ascension, IIRC. The lerasium beads oversaturated the noble lines with so much of Preservation's power that it became just a moderately rare occurrence instead of an impossibility while boosting the strength and birth frequency of mistings. Also, I recall allomancy and feruchemy occupying overlapping areas of their spiritual genes being what destroyed most of the full feruchemist bloodlines, so likely you cannot naturally possess full sets of both powers without having the second set artificially burned into your soul one way or another.

[Sirscott13]

I think another important note to the nature of diluted mistings is the fact that a lot of them probably never have the opportunity to snap. Being a fairly represented and modern society, you wouldn't have skaa being beaten all the time or nobility beating their young to get allomancy. What if a lot of the population in Elendale has allomancy written in their spiritual web, but so few people ever get the chance to snap. Would make sense then that mistborn wouldn't manifest in society especially seeing as how snapping requires different punishment for different abilities. If the mist snapped the atium mistings by punishing them so harshly, then misborn must also require massive punishment

Edited February 2, 2015 by Sirscott13

[Redbird]

Except Harmony lowered the threshold for snapping, although it was not clear how low.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Redbird3000

[Kaymyth]

Except Harmony lowered the threshold to snap, although it was not clear how low.

 

Certainly low enough that the large-scale beatings just don't happen anymore.  And probably to the point that the vast majority of people with Allomantic potential come into it at some point during their lives.

[vertigo 1]

There's also the question of what strength in feruchemy even means. Feruchemy automatically has perfect storage, and it automatically can be tapped to any degree you want. Where's the room for individual variation there? (The question applies to how Hemalurgic Decay works with feruchemy, too.)

I believe that feruchemical strength can be measured in how many attribute points you can store at a time. So you could completely store you weight or strength to near zero or store several attributes that add up to less than your limit.

[Sirscott13]

Why would feruchemist dilute? Allomancy dilutes because you loose your direct connection to the lerasium bead and the power of preservation through the generations. As far as we know, feruchemy doesn't have such a direct source of origin.

[Redbird]

Something with the mixing of mistings and feruchemists SDna, you cannot be more than a twinborn naturally.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Redbird3000

[natc]

Why would feruchemist dilute? Allomancy dilutes because you loose your direct connection to the lerasium bead and the power of preservation through the generations. As far as we know, feruchemy doesn't have such a direct source of origin.

Supposedly whatever spiritual genes exist for hereditary allomancy has severe overlap with the genes for hereditary feruchemy in terms of location in the soul, so being a natural misting essentially destroys any pure feruchemy you would normally have and leaves you with one power. Forcibly writing allomancy into your soul via lerasium, hemalurgy, or just doing it manually to yourself while Ascended seems to not produce such a side effect, only by inheritance.

[Lord Tavash Shar]

Its also worth note that Brandon has stated that Feruchemy does come from somewhere in a similar way to Gaining Allomancy via lerasium beads. IE it can be acquired, Its just that at the time the story starts its inherent to the population of Terris in the same way that Allomancy was more likely in Nobles.