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theory: Galladon in WoK


Zas678

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FYI, Zas, I'm pretty sure you mean prologue, not prelude ;)

Here's some good reading on the subject: http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=7788.0

Reading that first interlude, it's hard to not think that the one Isshik calls "Thinker" is Raoden. Now, these could be different people from Sel, but I do think that they are from Sel, and I like the idea that these people are Raoden and Galladon.

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I don't know... they're Elantrians.  Can Elantrians change their physical appearance?  One way this might work is that, being so far from Elantris, they return to their original appearances.  Across an ocean, their powers are significantly reduced.  Several light-years away? They could lose their powers completely.  So...I went from disagreeing to thinking it could work over the course of this post.

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I just had a thought.  The letter-writer (Hoid) states that the letter recipient (who seems to have authority over 17th Shard members) ignored events on Sel.  Specifically, he ignored Odium's visit to Sel.  If he doesn't pay attention when powerful shardholders do terrible things to a place, and he seems to follow a non-intervention policy, he probably doesn't pay much attention to worlds when there aren't malignant shardholders.  This makes it seem, to me, that recruiting Elantrians (like Galladon) to 17th shard is extremely unlikely.  Just something else to think on.  Though honestly, if this theory turns out to be true, I will be the first to say, "Awesome."

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The letter recipient isn't necessarily the leader of the Seventeenth Shard. He could simply be an ally to them.

If these are in fact people from Sel, which I find likely, then they probably found evidence of Odium's influence on Sel and decided to do something about it. The letter recipient's policy is nonintervention, not necessarily the Seventeenth Shard's.

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That's a good point!  I was walking through the BYU bookstore today, and I stopped and grabbed a copy of Elantris. I flipped through it until I found an instance of Galladon using "Kayana."  Then I opened a copy of TWoK to I-1. (It's great that this bookstore gives Brandon his own shelf.)  There it was.  The exact same word.  That does a lot to convince me of the validity of this theory.  And since Chaos has convinced me that my objections don't hold up under scrutiny, I will subscribe to this theory.

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Holy crap, you're right. I thought it was a strong case, but a case with the precise word like that... it's indisputable.

That settles it. There is no more questioning. Members of the Seventeenth Shard are from Sel, and have come to Roshar.

I also want to believe they are Raoden and Galladon, but that might be wrong. My fingers are crossed.

But are they from Sel? Absolutely.

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Oh, don't give me all the credit.  Someone (too lazy to find out who) was putting this info on TWG, but everyone just seemed to be brushing it off like nothing.  I thought maybe he was wrong and everyone knew that.  So I checked it myself.  But, yeah, the original guy who noticed this posted it on TWG.

*Edit* It was Munin in the very first post of the thread you link at the top of this one.*Edit*

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I dunno. I still don't buy them being Elantrians. I'm convinced they are from Sel, of that I have no doubt (especially since at the signing i went to, brandon specifically said WoK had tie ins to elantris.)

Even when they were effectively cut off from the Dor, the elantrians retained a different looking appearance (though it wasn't shiny or good looking, looked more rotten than anything). It's true they'd get weaker as they get farther away, so the idea of them disguising themselves is out of the question here, at least to me, since, as said, they'd basically be powerless.

However, I'm not convinced that loss of their power will cause them to revert in appearance. I believe that no matter what distance they get from their power source, they would retain their appearance, because even when their power was severely weakened to nothing but a trickle, they retained their appearance, but their bodies essentially just "froze" where they were. Moving away from the power source until it is either a trickle or non-existant, i would theorize, would do the exact same thing to them, not revert them to their "pre-elantrian" state.

Effectively, the way i see it, the power causes their bodies to mutate to what they are, and then sustains them, as a sort of "life-support". Take away that life support, and their bodies will retain the mutations, but they appear to be unable to function naturally (or at least what is naturally for their physically changed bodies, that is). They've effectively all ready been "touched" by this power, and taking it away isn't going to revert them, it's going to kill them.

Flaws, counter arguments, flames?

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It's possible that if they made an illusion around themselves when they were nearer to Elantris that the illusion doesn't diminish with distance. The spell itself is completed, so it may not be effected by the distance. Also, isn't it that the Aons don't work away from Elantris? I'd assume the Dor works fine no matter where you are on Sel, and possibly elsewhere, just not the Aons.

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It's possible that if they made an illusion around themselves when they were nearer to Elantris that the illusion doesn't diminish with distance. The spell itself is completed, so it may not be effected by the distance. Also, isn't it that the Aons don't work away from Elantris? I'd assume the Dor works fine no matter where you are on Sel, and possibly elsewhere, just not the Aons.

Well, the Aon's are channeling the Dor, sort of like building a canal for a river to flow through in a specific way. The further away they are, the less amount of Dor flows through the Aons. This would be why when the Dor flow was slowed to a trickle, the existing Aons stopped working. I would assume that the same would happen if they moved far away. The Dor would slowly come to a trickle, then stop flowing into whatever spells they have previously set up (some sort of glamer to appear normal) and cause it to stop working.

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That's a good point!  I was walking through the BYU bookstore today, and I stopped and grabbed a copy of Elantris. I flipped through it until I found an instance of Galladon using "Kayana."  Then I opened a copy of TWoK to I-1. (It's great that this bookstore gives Brandon his own shelf.)  There it was.  The exact same word.  That does a lot to convince me of the validity of this theory.  And since Chaos has convinced me that my objections don't hold up under scrutiny, I will subscribe to this theory.

I was the one who posted this over on TWG, and I have to admit, that until I saw the word "kayana", I hadn't even considered the connection. Once I read it (and remembered why it sounded familiar), I read back through the interlude and realized that something odd was going on.

Also, I asked Brandon about this at the San Diego book signing, and got some more info on it. Someone else also asked a similar question, and together we learned that the language that Grumpy is speaking is Dula, and that "there's no reason a Dula couldn't be a member of the 17th Shard".

When I asked directly if it was Galladon, Brandon got very evasive.

Holy crap, you're right. I thought it was a strong case, but a case with the precise word like that... it's indisputable.

FYI, I mentioned that in my first post in the thread on TWG.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It is being assumed that they have no Dor on Roshar...

What if the power loss is like a parabolic(? not sure if that is the right word) effect. Imagine if, they travel so far away from Elantris that  there power grows again like the opposite pole of a magnet (kinda like how its cold in the north pole, warm in the equator, then cold in the south pole.)

OR

Sel is somehow "close" to Roshar, and every place in Roshar has a corresponding place in Sel.

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It is being assumed that they have no Dor on Roshar...

What if the power loss is like a parabolic(? not sure if that is the right word) effect. Imagine if, they travel so far away from Elantris that  there power grows again like the opposite pole of a magnet (kinda like how its cold in the north pole, warm in the equator, then cold in the south pole.)

OR

Sel is somehow "close" to Roshar, and every place in Roshar has a corresponding place in Sel.

That... would be too convoluted, in my opinion. And I can't think of any way to explain a reason for it without sounding completely ridiculous.

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I agree. If going to Teod caused a noticeable drop in power level, going to an entirely different planet would render an Elantrian effectively powerless. Though I still think they probably disguised themselves before departing, since as far as we've seen, power loss doesn't necessarily mean a change in appearance.

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It is being assumed that they have no Dor on Roshar...

What if the power loss is like a parabolic(? not sure if that is the right word) effect. Imagine if, they travel so far away from Elantris that  there power grows again like the opposite pole of a magnet (kinda like how its cold in the north pole, warm in the equator, then cold in the south pole.)

OR

Sel is somehow "close" to Roshar, and every place in Roshar has a corresponding place in Sel.

That... would be too convoluted, in my opinion. And I can't think of any way to explain a reason for it without sounding completely ridiculous.

Yeah, i think that sounds a bit too akward for it to be true, and a bit "deus-ex-machina" to be like "oh, coincidentally, light years away, roshar is at JUST the right location to give them their powers!"

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It is being assumed that they have no Dor on Roshar...

What if the power loss is like a parabolic(? not sure if that is the right word) effect. Imagine if, they travel so far away from Elantris that  there power grows again like the opposite pole of a magnet (kinda like how its cold in the north pole, warm in the equator, then cold in the south pole.)

OR

Sel is somehow "close" to Roshar, and every place in Roshar has a corresponding place in Sel.

That... would be too convoluted, in my opinion. And I can't think of any way to explain a reason for it without sounding completely ridiculous.

Yeah, i think that sounds a bit too akward for it to be true, and a bit "deus-ex-machina" to be like "oh, coincidentally, light years away, roshar is at JUST the right location to give them their powers!"

yeah it even seems to be strange to me.  Honestly have no idea what I was thinking...

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