Philomath

Can you Kill Someone with Soul Stamps?

17 posts in this topic

Basically the title question. So let’s say someone had cancer and survived. If you stamped them and changed their history so the cancer got detected too late would they die? Or some other type of serious illness or injury that could be survivable or not given the correct circumstances? And if that would kill a person, let’s say that person had kids after surviving said illness or injury. Would their children cease to exist?

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I guess it would be possible to kill someone like that (like in your example, cancer got detected too late).

But the kids would not cease to exist; Forgery does not cause butterfly effect, it's limited to the thing it's applied to.

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Wait... Could you resurrect someone then? Let's say you stamp someone, they die, then you remove the stamp the next day. Hello life insurance fraud.

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11 minutes ago, soulcastJam said:

Wait... Could you resurrect someone then? Let's say you stamp someone, they die, then you remove the stamp the next day. Hello life insurance fraud.

If they've already gone beyond, no. The body would be healed, and the "soul" would be gone. 

It would be like Ashravan all over again. 

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I'm still in the camp that Ashravan soul never went into the Beyond, but that either the Resealers messed up or somehow the Connections to his physical body was messed up. Do we have a WoB confirming one or the other.

Better question is a stamp a pot and then smash that pot and then let the shards get their own cognitive aspects and then removed the stamp, would the shards come back together

And

If I had a pot, stamped it and then smashed it and then right away I remove the stamp, will the shards come back together.

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4 hours ago, MountainKing said:

If I had a pot, stamped it and then smashed it and then right away I remove the stamp, will the shards come back together.

I would say depends on how brutally you broke it and into how many pieces, along with physical location relative to each other and where the stamp is.

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A WoB somewhat on point

Quote

Silver

If you created a Forgery where someone was killed, would that person stay dead or would they wake up when the stamp wore off?

Brandon Sanderson

Umm ok. So you, in order to kill them, would have to Forge them to death, right. You can't just like-- for instance, if you rewrote this table so for whatever reason it believed that I was dead, it wouldn't affect me at all, it would only affect the table, because if you rewrote the table to believe it had been carved a certain way and I was the carver, I wouldn't remember doing that. So the Forgery affects only the item. If you stuck a stamp on me that forged me to be dead, I think that would probably be-- Depends on what you do to me, but it could go either way.

Questioner 2

It would have to be be believable wouldn't it?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah it would have to be believable, but it could go either way. Depending on how you created it, and what was going on. It's a good question.

Silver

I did not come up with it!

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it is a good question... That could create some interesting paradoxes also.

source

 

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4 hours ago, MountainKing said:

Better question is a stamp a pot and then smash that pot and then let the shards get their own cognitive aspects and then removed the stamp, would the shards come back together

And

If I had a pot, stamped it and then smashed it and then right away I remove the stamp, will the shards come back together.

Why would anything done to it be altered by the stamp being removed? Those things still happened. 

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I think it would be more along the lines that the object would revert.  If you shatter a stamped vase, the shards no longer have a physical connection to the stamp.  As the cognitive connection fades, and the shards become distinct as garbage, I think the shards without the stamp would revert to broken pieces of the original vase.  The shards with the stamp would remain in the stamped form, provided the stamp was intact.

 

If you break the vase in such a way that the stamp is no longer intact, then the whole thing would revert to garbage shards of the original, unstamped version.  That is for sure.  But if the stamp is fully intact on one of the fragments?  That gets interesting.

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Quote

yulerule [PENDING REVIEW]

Can you Forge liquids, like... Does that go into Bloodsealing, can you change their blood type?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

OK, can you use Forgery to, say, change someone's blood type? Yes. Can you Forge liquids? A little harder to stamp liquids, so this kind of comes down to, can you...

yulerule [PENDING REVIEW]

Like, if you have a glass of water and you put salt in the water can you forge it or make it and make it...

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

This is possible, but it requires a few little workarounds. Obviously you can do it because you forge somebody, and they're mostly liquid.

yulerule [PENDING REVIEW]

But you're putting in on a hard surface.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes, in the same way that you would with a liquid you would probably...

yulerule [PENDING REVIEW]

Touch some ice?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

No, you would probably take the cup, and make it part of the whole, and if you can... Remember in the cosmere, it depends on how you view a thing. Is it a whole? Do you view this as a cup of water, or do you view it as a cup and the water? Do you view a person as a vessel and the blood inside them, or together as a person? And that perception really affects your magic. So it's possible, for instance, to forge a cup of water, forging just the cup is easier than forging just the water.

source

If you drink the forged water, will it return to being water after it leaves the cup?

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So if you had an empty hot chocolate mug that you have used to have hot chocolate at least 20 times a day, and stamped said mug to be full of hot chocolate at the moment, (believable since the mug remembers being filled with hot chocolate a lot, and it is likely that you would fill it then anyway.) Would the mug be full of hot chocolate? And if you drank the hot chocolate before the stamp fades, does the mug refill itself? And when the stamp is rejected, would that mean the mug is clean again?

So what you would have, is a mug that can produce unlimited hot chocolate, and then become as clean as it was before the hot chocolate.

Then mass produce the stamps and sell them, pulling all hot chocolate businesses out of business and becoming the sole monopoly of infinite hot chocolate.

Edited by Life&Death
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I need such a mug.
I'm not sure about the refilling part, but even if I need to stamp it every time to be full again, that would be great!

Edited by Sorana
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17 hours ago, Life&Death said:

So if you had an empty hot chocolate mug that you have used to have hot chocolate at least 20 times a day, and stamped said mug to be full of hot chocolate at the moment, (believable since the mug remembers being filled with hot chocolate a lot, and it is likely that you would fill it then anyway.) Would the mug be full of hot chocolate? And if you drank the hot chocolate before the stamp fades, does the mug refill itself? And when the stamp is rejected, would that mean the mug is clean again?

So what you would have, is a mug that can produce unlimited hot chocolate, and then become as clean as it was before the hot chocolate.

Then mass produce the stamps and sell them, pulling all hot chocolate businesses out of business and becoming the sole monopoly of infinite hot chocolate.

Really want to multiple upvote. This is brilliant!

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9 hours ago, Sorana said:

I'm not sure about the refilling part, but even if I need to stamp it every time to be full again, that would be great!

Still means unlimited hot chocolate.

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3 hours ago, Life&Death said:

Still means unlimited hot chocolate.

:wub: Hot chocolate and unlimited in one sentence. Sounds like a dream come true...

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Here's a shiny new WoB that addresses much of this thread. The object will try to snap back to its spiritual ideal (the natural form of what it was originally) with 'varying results'.

Quote

BipedSnowman

Aon Rao
10h

In theory, could you create weird structures or even alloys this way?

Two scenarios: using forging how you might use soulcasting, such as turning something into wood, bending and carving it to make a new shape, then breaking the seal so it turns back into the original material without changing shape.

Second: forging one metal into another, and forming an alloy to reduce operation costs. For example, tungsten has a melting point of about 3.5k C, but it's useful as part of a steel alloy for certain applications. Could you Forge it into, say, zinc, which has a melting point of about 500 C, create the steel, then turn it back into tungsten? Presumably the investiture would adjust the molecular structure so it acts as if it has been alloyed with tungsten originally too, otherwise the same process happening with food could be deadly.

 
 
mistborn
Author
9h

Yes, this is in theory similar to Soulcasting. The difference is that a forged object, upon "Forgetting" the rewriting to its spiritual nature is going to try to snap back and match what it "thinks" it should be like--which isn't going to lead to as much stability as Soulcasting, where the actual soul is changed. The object is going to try to get back to the way it "should" be, with varying results.

The reason the Lord Ruler aged hyper-quickly is related to this as well.

 

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You could make them choke on the soulstamp. Or make one out of a large heavy object...

Edited by Crucible of Shards
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