Kidpen Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 I swear Rand get's elim more often then other people. Probably because he's good at it and it helps balance when new people are elims? Or maybe I'm just seeing patterns where there aren't any. But yeah, yay us! I assume everybody would have done a fantastic job if it had continued. Good clues Hero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 Well that was something. Also, rand was evil again. Of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elandera Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, Herowannabe said: In fact, I'm thinking that we should change the Location #4 tile (the one with the various shardworlds) to something that isn't so cosmere specific. I think it makes it too hard for the Assassin to pick clues when the majority of them can be easily identified by which planet they're from. Thoughts? Any other suggestions? I think that would probably be a good idea. It really was the Sel clue that made it fairly easy to narrow down. Good game Investigators! Count me in for the next. I'll try not to make it end so early Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaTerminal Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 Storms. It came down to Wiritos or King, and we went with King. I agree, I think the Shardworld location tile is too specific. We chose the Slime to misdirect towards the other Elantrian Methods and Evidence, but even then you would have guessed in time. With 17 available guesses and only 15 or so possibilities, it's too easy to narrow it down. Decreasing the number of hint tiles, getting rid of the Shardworld Location, or pushing the number of cards per person up to 5 would all make it harder for the Investigators (although some of these might be overkill). The game is very much in the Investigator's favour - even if Elandera hadn't stuck the improbable guess, I don't think we would have made it to the 3rd Cycle. Elandera, why in particular did you pick Booby Trap? Only PK and wiritos really highlighted it, as opposed to the number of others theorising about the Aons. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herowannabe Posted September 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) Hey everyone, as I said in the other thread, because the first game of Deception went so quickly, @Alvron has given us permission to do an immediate rerun. So who is interested? I'm going to go ahead and tag everyone who participated in the last game, including those who signed up as pinch hitters. If there are any spectators or new players who want to join in, feel free! Signups won't be open for very long- only about 2 days, so decide quickly! (EDIT: If you played in the last game and want to join this one, please post in this thread and say so, even if you said so in the other thread. I would hate to miss someone who wanted to play again) Spoiler @Steeldancer @A Joe in the Bush @Droughtbringer @Devotary of Spontaneity @Metaspren @Rathmaskal @Elandera @wiritospren @Madagascar @Snipexe @Araris Valerian @Kidpen @phattemer @Paranoid King @I think I am here. @randuir @Cadmium Compounder @Bort @Arinian @xinoehp512 @Young Bard Quick Links: Deception in the Cosmere rules doc Game #1 Main Thread Day 0 Day 1 Epilogue Spreadsheet Conspirator doc Edited September 1, 2018 by Herowannabe 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herowannabe Posted September 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) Player List Elandera / Oyh MetaTerminal / Felksi Snipexe / The Witness Droughtbringer / In Madagascar / Mad Steeldancer / Squid of Steel Paranoid King / The Ghost of John Smith Randuir / Holmlock Shears I Think I am Here. / Itiah VII Bort / May Bebort Rathmaskal / Harry Devotary of Spontaneity / Fourth of the Twilight A Joe in the Bush / Various Divide Kidpen / Alvron Cadmium Compounder / Spork Walin / Higsedal Edited September 3, 2018 by Herowannabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elandera Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 I'll join again! Oyh isn't done yet. He still needs to figure out how to get home again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaTerminal Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 *hits signup button* I'll be Selksi's younger (and totally not a murderer) brother, Felksi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snipexe Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) I’ll join with my name as the witness Edited September 1, 2018 by Snipexe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Araris Valerian Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) @Herowannabe If I'm going to be offline all day Monday, should I avoid signing up? Or will Day 0 be on Monday? Edit: If you're fine with that, then sign me up. Edited September 1, 2018 by Araris Valerian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droughtbringer Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 I'm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madagascar Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 Mad, grizzled, torture-obsessed former Oracle traveling back from a different case which she totally would have cracked open, she just didn't want to steal the thunder of the other less talented investigators, because she is so incredibly giving and humble. In terms of luggage, she brings only her well-used medieval rack. She is traveling with her pig and PET BIRD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid King Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Herowannabe said: I wasn't sure how balanced the game would be with this many people so I just did one of each role to see how it would play out. I think next time we might do something to give the Assassin a bit of an edge. In fact, I'm thinking that we should change the Location #4 tile (the one with the various shardworlds) to something that isn't so cosmere specific. I think it makes it too hard for the Assassin to pick clues when the majority of them can be easily identified by which planet they're from. Thoughts? Any other suggestions? I agree with balancing out the shardworlds. Especially where in the doc, evidences are divided out by shardworld, it makes it too easy to guess. Either add more world-specific evidences or change the card. Shadesmar could be renamed to cognitive realm to make it more general. You could also include an option for non-shardworld. For evidence on the body, there is no option for nothing. Partial is the smallest it can go. State of the scene has bits and pieces, shattered, and disorderly, which are all basically the same. I recommend changing one to unusual (for say, soulcasting.) In progress has no option for normal work or resting. With this many investigators, the clue can be pretty much brute-forced. Even if we have 15-20 possibilities left, we're still likely to get the murderer. In the original game, I think 12 was the max number of people? I recommend straying from the original rules and having 5 evidences/methods per player. Maybe add a few more accomplices, too. Also, if you want more interaction from players who have already guessed, you can have players vote on one of 2 or 3 cards to examine next time. That's more reasonable in a forum setting than in an actual game. These are all minor nitpicks, though. I think this translated well to a forum game, and I had a blast playing. Count me in next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 Steel is returning as The Squid of Steel. The Squid of Steel's planet blew up when he was a baby squidling, and he was sent away to Scadrial, However, on Scadrial, he gained the ability to use Steel allomancy and feruchemy (for reasons). Therefore, The Last Squid of Squidly became the Squid of Steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elandera Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Metaspren said: Storms. It came down to Wiritos or King, and we went with King. I agree, I think the Shardworld location tile is too specific. We chose the Slime to misdirect towards the other Elantrian Methods and Evidence, but even then you would have guessed in time. With 17 available guesses and only 15 or so possibilities, it's too easy to narrow it down. Decreasing the number of hint tiles, getting rid of the Shardworld Location, or pushing the number of cards per person up to 5 would all make it harder for the Investigators (although some of these might be overkill). The game is very much in the Investigator's favour - even if Elandera hadn't stuck the improbable guess, I don't think we would have made it to the 3rd Cycle. Elandera, why in particular did you pick Booby Trap? Only PK and wiritos really highlighted it, as opposed to the number of others theorising about the Aons. As I read many of the arguments, that one stuck out to me as most likely to be accidental. Not in the sense that it accidentally led to a death, since we were very clearly talking about a murder, but more in the sense that the murder was random rather than targeted. That also kind of fit the "Despicable" card, as the murderer in that case wouldn't care who died. When I noticed booby trap had a corresponding Sel-link with what was left behind, I figured I'd either get it, or cross another thing off the list. Edited September 1, 2018 by Elandera Grammar 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herowannabe Posted September 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 12 minutes ago, Metaspren said: With 17 available guesses and only 15 or so possibilities, it's too easy to narrow it down. Decreasing the number of hint tiles, getting rid of the Shardworld Location, or pushing the number of cards per person up to 5 would all make it harder for the Investigators (although some of these might be overkill). The game is very much in the Investigator's favour - even if Elandera hadn't stuck the improbable guess, I don't think we would have made it to the 3rd Cycle. Agreed. I wasn't quite sure how it would play out- whether it would be too easy for 17 investigators to narrow down and figure out who the Assassin was, or whether it would be too easy for the Assassin to hide amongst so many players. But I think this game demonstrated pretty clearly that it was the former. You got caught on the second guess, but even if you hadn't, a coordinated effort by the investigators could have led them to just guess all the likely possibilities and find you through process of elimination. I have several ideas in mind for adjusting the balance in favor of the Assassin (or adjusting it the other way). Increasing the number of cards each player gets is one of them. We're somewhat limited by the number of method cards we can do- if we assign 5 method cards per player then that puts a hard cap on us at 21 players because then we would run out of method cards. There are twice as many evidence cards, however, so we could easily do 5 or 6 or more evidence cards per player. We could increase the number of co-conspirators, but that only helps so much. The vast majority of players would still be investigators and they could still brute-force the solution. We could make it easier to identify the witness (by giving the conspirators more guesses, or by adding more witnesses), but that seems like it would be the least fun solution. It wouldn't fix the underlying problem- that of it being too easy to find the murderer. Lastly, for large groups we could split and run two games simultaneously, each with around 8-12 players. That would keep it within the ranges that the game was originally balanced for. For game #2, I think we'll definitely change the shardworld Location tile, and then either assign more cards to players or split the game in half, depending on the number of people that sign up. If we get more opportunities to run this game on a semi-regular basis in the future we can begin experimenting with different things and even create new roles/events that can tip the balance one way or the other (for example, one idea I had was allowing the conspirators to plant a false trail by secretly choosing the clue for 1 of the tiles and the Oracle would not be allowed to change or replace that tile). 4 minutes ago, Paranoid King said: Shadesmar could be renamed to cognitive realm to make it more general. FYI: Shadesmar is another name for the cognitive realm. They mean the same thing. 5 minutes ago, Paranoid King said: For evidence on the body, there is no option for nothing. Partial is the smallest it can go. State of the scene has bits and pieces, shattered, and disorderly, which are all basically the same. I recommend changing one to unusual (for say, soulcasting.) In progress has no option for normal work or resting. These tiles are more or less unchanged from the base game. I have learned that the options (or lack thereof) on each tile are not-coincidental. It can make for some hard choices as the Oracle when none of the results really fit the scene of the crime, but you still have to pick one of them, and sometimes that can lead the investigation astray. That's just part of the fun. For example, on the "Murderer's Personality" tile, I would have preferred to pick something like "uncaring" or "devious," but those weren't options, so I had to pick something that didn't fit as well. 7 minutes ago, Paranoid King said: With this many investigators, the clue can be pretty much brute-forced. Even if we have 15-20 possibilities left, we're still likely to get the murderer. In the original game, I think 12 was the max number of people? I recommend straying from the original rules and having 5 evidences/methods per player. Maybe add a few more accomplices, too. As I said above, but you ninja'd me before I posted this! 8 minutes ago, Paranoid King said: Also, if you want more interaction from players who have already guessed, you can have players vote on one of 2 or 3 cards to examine next time. That's more reasonable in a forum setting than in an actual game. I'm not following you. Can you expound on this please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herowannabe Posted September 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 20 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said: @Herowannabe If I'm going to be offline all day Monday, should I avoid signing up? Or will Day 0 be on Monday? Edit: If you're fine with that, then sign me up. Day 0 will start Sunday evening and go through Monday evening, so you should be fine. Even if you get selected to be the Assassin, you can hurry and PM your method/evidence choices Sunday evening or your co-conspirator(s) can pick them for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaTerminal Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 FYI I'm changing my name back to MetaTerminal, now that Spren week is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elandera Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, Herowannabe said: one idea I had was allowing the conspirators to plant a false trail by secretly choosing the clue for 1 of the tiles and the Oracle would not be allowed to change or replace that tile) One concern I have with this is it becoming too obvious if that's the only tile that never changes. It would be a pretty big clue to the investigators that one tile unchanged would be the false trail. I like the idea though, but it would mean restrictions on the Oracle only being able to change maybe one tile per round. I haven't played the original Deception game, so I don't know what kind of rules there are for changing those cards in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herowannabe Posted September 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 Just now, Elandera said: One concern I have with this is it becoming too obvious if that's the only tile that never changes. It would be a pretty big clue to the investigators that one tile unchanged would be the false trail. I like the idea though, but it would mean restrictions on the Oracle only being able to change maybe one tile per round. I haven't played the original Deception game, so I don't know what kind of rules there are for changing those cards in the first place. The game only lasts 3 rounds and (barring 1 or 2 specific event cards) the Oracle only gets to change one clue each for rounds 2 and 3. This means that most of the clues remain unchanged throughout the whole game, so that wouldn’t really be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid King Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 3 minutes ago, Herowannabe said: I'm not following you. Can you expound on this please? Once a player has guessed, there's not much else they can do. They can examine evidences, but they can't make accusations themselves. And if they get replaced, the pinch hitters can't do anything either. However, instead of drawing random evidence cards at the beginning of a round, you could reveal 2 or 3, and have players vote on which they want. This gives more chance for misdirection from accomplices, and gives players something to do even if they can't accuse people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elandera Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 Just now, Herowannabe said: The game only lasts 3 rounds and (barring 1 or 2 specific event cards) the Oracle only gets to change one clue each for rounds 2 and 3. This means that most of the clues remain unchanged throughout the whole game, so that wouldn’t really be an issue. Perfect. Then I think that would be a good idea to shift things towards a better balance for the Assassin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herowannabe Posted September 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 14 minutes ago, Paranoid King said: Once a player has guessed, there's not much else they can do. They can examine evidences, but they can't make accusations themselves. And if they get replaced, the pinch hitters can't do anything either. However, instead of drawing random evidence cards at the beginning of a round, you could reveal 2 or 3, and have players vote on which they want. This gives more chance for misdirection from accomplices, and gives players something to do even if they can't accuse people. Oh I see. I like it. How would we handle it if an event card is drawn, since those almost invariably help the investigators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid King Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 (edited) Hmm, good point. Maybe events also turn a random player into an accomplice? Edit: but aside from glimpse of the future, getting to choose an evidence card is about as useful as getting an event. Edited September 1, 2018 by Paranoid King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paranoid King Posted September 1, 2018 Report Share Posted September 1, 2018 My name is John Smith, and I'm now just a ghost, Cursed forever to walk with investicon's host Until I unravel the next vicious crime I'll constantly RP in ear-grating rhyme 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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