Ixthos Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 I've mentioned before that I think the systems of magic on Roshar, Sel, and Scadrial are the most versatile systems we have seen, and likely are the most versatile we will see, because they are places that form the backbone of the Cosmere's main series (as Brandon has said that the Elantris series, Mistborn novels, Stormlight archive, and Dragonsteel form the backbone of the Comere), and because those planets have two or more of the shards. I noticed, however, something else which might be interesting - the main systems on those three match the classic rpg classes. I am not a role player though I have read a lot on it. Something which most people, even those unfamiliar with rpgs might know, however, is the ubiquity and versatility of the core rpg classes - the fighter, the mage, and the thief. And the cleric, which will be mentioned at the end. Roshar - Surgebinding - Fighter Knights Radiant have access to magical blades and armour, boosting frontal close range fighting and increasing the likelyhood of survival in combat. Also, knights. Windrunners can pull or push projectiles away from others, shielding them, a classic role for fighters. Stonewards and Dustbringers likewise are implied to get into the thick of a melee, as are Edgedancers. Truthwatchers are Paladins. Sel - the Dor - Mage (or Cleric) AonDor, seals, etc. require study and practice. Drawing symbols to produce results, and combining to produce more, allows for more versatile abilities than others shown. Can be used to heal others. Scadrial - Allomancy, Feruchemy, Hemalurgy - Rogue / Thief Allomancy on Scadrial lets one attack from range, sense at night while remaining hidden, move quickly in a knife fight, and travel quickly across the environment for scouting or escaping Chromium lets one nullify powers, like a poison attack, and Bronze lets one track, and copper lets them hide. Feruchemy can allow an unassuming scholar suddenly become a tough fighter, a speedy attacker, and fall from heights and survive. Hemalurgy is about theft, and secretly gaining something someone shouldn't have. Mistborn were used as spies and assassins, hidden in mist when on missions and identities hidden in noble society. Thieving crews. I suspect that this doesn't map perfectly, and some are a combination, like Thugs being for fighters, Lightweavers for thieves, Darkhor monks for fighters, but the similarities should be noted. Now, clerics might be a subset of Sel - seals can be used to fix the body, and Elantris shows AonDor likewise can heal, so it might be that clerics could be part of it, and the identity of one group as monks certainly could give that idea, but I think that perhaps another system could match. As I said before, Yolen is one of the main planets, is important for the cosmere religions, and might have and historically have more investiture than others. Not a lot has been shown, but from the Bridge Four series from Yolen it could be argued that the skills it is implied the main character is later taught - the shattering of an enemies weapon wiht a hit - for either mage or cleric or fighter. And that isn't the only system shown, just the only one which the sequence gives some detail. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Speaking of RPGs, Brandon has admitted he's a big fan. He talked a bit at one point about playing D&D growing up and at another point he mulled over how you could make a feruchemist work as a prestige class. He's also a JRPG fan, especially of FFX which just might explain why Oathbringer's description sounds so much like Tidus' most iconic sword design. 20 minutes ago, Ixthos said: Truthwatchers are Paladins. Really, all Knights Radiant are close to the Paladin ideal, mixing their magical weapon and armor with Surgebinding and being bound by a code of conduct which (between all the currently known Ideals) encompasses a lot of the typical Paladin restrictions, though not all Radiants will be bound in the same way so it's nothing like a 1:1 comparison. Which kind of goes with what's happened to the class in later editions that allow more flexibility. Skybreakers for example (at least as they're currently operating) have a good deal of resonance with 5e Paladins who follow the Oath of Vengeance. Windrunners are more Oath of the Ancients (putting 'good' before 'lawful' and so on. I'd agree that Brandon probably has some influences that he's drawing on, even if some of them are subconscious. For the specific powers of allomancy, he's outright confirmed they were developed from the standpoint of 'what skills would a team of thieves find useful' and then working out the details from there. Quote As I said before, Yolen is one of the main planets, is important for the cosmere religions, and might have and historically have more investiture than others. Not a lot has been shown, but from the Bridge Four series from Yolen it could be argued that the skills it is implied the main character is later taught - the shattering of an enemies weapon wiht a hit - for either mage or cleric or fighter. And that isn't the only system shown, just the only one which the sequence gives some detail. That's probably more in line with the Monk class, though given that stories of warriors able to do the kinds of things we see in Dragonsteel Prime go back waaaaay before D&D, it's probably more a shared influence than something Brandon would have even unconsciously been drawing on. Separately Brandon's mentioned that you could fairly call Hoid a Bard. No comment on whether or not he is a Spoony one. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthos Posted August 23, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 @Weltall Thanks :-) that's true about Knights Radiant and Paladins, especially with their oaths being the source of their abilities. I suppose I should clarify what I meant in that Truthwatchers have the powers of healing others and some type of light-abilities, which match fairly closely with WarCraft III Paladins - they are all Paladins, its just Truthwatcher are similar to the main idea of what a Paladin can do with their abilities. Good point on the monk comparison. As I said I don't play DnD, so I'm not really able to comment on the capabilities of monks, though I guess they are more fighting-monk type monk's than "lets experiment with growing peas and working with bees" type monks :-P Without getting into Dragonsteel speculation too deeply we do know that there is at least one other ability on the planet either historically or at the time of the other series, or another facet of the abilities shown, so there might be some cleric type present, though again as you said it could be just be a background influence on Brandon, and not a deliberate attempt to make classes, and so isn't a pattern. I always knew something was up with Hoid. He isn't just a fighter / rogue / sorcerer with specialisation in enchantments! :-P Actually, don't Bard's dip into several roles? Hoid being a bard could make sense with accruing abilities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted August 23, 2018 Report Share Posted August 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ixthos said: I always knew something was up with Hoid. He isn't just a fighter / rogue / sorcerer with specialisation in enchantments! :-P Actually, don't Bard's dip into several roles? Hoid being a bard could make sense with accruing abilities. Bards are the "Jack of all trades, master of none". Hoid is the "Jack of all investiture, Shard of none" Edited August 23, 2018 by Child of Hodor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthos Posted November 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Reviving my old topic after giving this some more thought. As I've said I don't play pen and paper RPGs, though I have played a few fantasy games. As I understand it, there are in general a few different types of combat roles: Tank - take damage for others DPS - damage the enemy Healer - keep your allies from dying or being incapacitated Buffer - boost the abilities of your allies Debuffer - reduce the abilities of your enemies Pet master - control units to fight Utility - stealth, lockpicking, teleportation, persuasion, etc. So, based on these, I wonder if we can assign some more refined roles to the different systems? :-) Note that, for example, the Orders of Knights Radiant all are Tanks and DPS due to their plate and blades, and so all tank better than say a Pewter arm, but some are even more tanky, such as Windrunners, so some might be a tank but not be as skilled a tank as others. Sel: AonDor: DPS, Healer, Utility (various) Dakhor: Tank, DPS, Utility ChayShan: DPS Forging: Utility Bloodsealing: Pet master, Utility Roshar: All Radiants: Tanks (shardplate), DPS (shardblade) Windrunners: Tanks (drawing in enemy fire) Skybreakers: DPS Dustbringers: DPS Edgedancers: Tank (avoidance and mitigation), Healer Truthwatchers: Tank (mitigation), Buff (maybe?), Healer, Utility (information gathering) Lightweavers: Buff (lightweaving), Debuff (lightweaving), Utility (stealth, resource production) Elsecallers: DPS (transformation), Buff, Utility (resource production, teleportation) Willshapers: Utility (teleportation) Stonewards: Tank, DPS Bondsmiths: Buff, Debuff (maybe?) Fabrials: Utility Scadrial: Allomancy: Tank, DPS, Buff, Debuff, Utility Iron / Steel: Tank (draw/redirect enemy fire), DPS, Debuff (affect enemy aim), Utility (transport) Tin: Utility Pewter: Tank, DPS Zinc / Brass: Buff, Debuff Copper: Utility (stealth and infiltration) Bronze: Utility (information gathering) Cadmium / Bendalloy: Utility (talking is a free action) Gold: Utility Electrum: Tank Chromium: Debuff Nicrosil: Buff, Debuff Aluminium / Duralumin: Utility Feruchemy: Tank, DPS, Utility Iron: Utility (travel, interfere with being moved) Steel: Tank (avoidance), Utility (travel) Tin: Utility Pewter: Tank, DPS Zinc / Brass / Copper / Bronze: Utility (planning, surviving temperatures, staying focused) Cadmium / Bendalloy: Utility (storing resources) Gold: Tank (mitigation) Electrum / Chromium / Nicrosil / Aluminium / Duralumin: Utility Nalthis: Awakening: Pet master, Utility (general tools) First of the Sun: Aviar: Pet master, Utility (stealth) Can anyone else think of any others or comments on these? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts