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Wayne?

Arin

By Arin
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Quiver

Quiver

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I'm not sure if it was WoB or just close reading of the book, but yeah, we know what became of the Kandra.

The 'Faceless' servants of Harmony, the ones who act as his agents on Scadrial? That's the Kandra. One of them gave Wax his earring, and I believe we know that another one replaced someone during the book.

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GreyPilgrim

GreyPilgrim

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I'm not sure if it was WoB or just close reading of the book, but yeah, we know what became of the Kandra.

The 'Faceless' servants of Harmony, the ones who act as his agents on Scadrial? That's the Kandra. One of them gave Wax his earring, and I believe we know that another one replaced someone during the book.

I believe we have WoB that MeLaan gave Wax the earring, and also that the constable named Brettin was replaced by TenSoon.

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Melaan

Melaan

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I never thought of him being related to a kandra. . . Uh. . . I can see where you're getting the idea, what with his habits/borderline addiction  of impersonating people. I don't think I believe it, but it is a very interesting thought.

I've always been under the impression that Wayne's a full blown Feruchemist. In his case he's memorizing and storing accents and personalities. (along with his healing ability) In the 'Shadow of Self' preview we see him repeating accents to himself out loud, just as Sazed did in 'Well of Ascension' when recording information about  the Inquisitor stronghold.

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Melaan

Melaan

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In the Alloy Of Law news paper pictures there's a whole story about Koloss, an article about 'Faceless Immortals' who take people's appearances, and a list of ways to keep Iron Eyes from killing you. The fun thing is, since it's in this little newspaper, you can't guarantee what is truth and what isn't. I mean do you really think putting garlic or something like that under your pillow would keep Marsh from killing you if he wanted to? LOL Seriously, can't you just see it?

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Pathfinder

Pathfinder

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The theory of Wayne possibly being a full feruchemist opens a new question for me. You are either a misting of one ability, or a mistborn with all and (i forgot where i read this), you are either a ferring with one ability, or a feruchemist with all. Can a person be a mistborn and a ferring? Or a misting and a feruchemist? If they can't, then I would say Wayne can't possibly be a feruchemist, because then it would mean he was a full mistborn as well. 

Edited by P4thf1nd3r
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Melaan

Melaan

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I don't see why one couldn't be full Mistborn and only have one Ferring ability (or visa versa). It's all suposed to be genetic, so it makes sense. You could do similar things without genetics if you had powers by  Hemalurgy

My main reason for suspecting Wayne of being a Ferrcumist is not just his personality, but in 'Hero of Ages' we learn that the Lord Ruler turned every living Ferrcumist into a mistwraith. Yet a thousand years later, even with the breeding programs, we have Sazed and an entire group of Terris keepers.
So, Despite the Synod being destroyed, it's not that hard to imagine feruchemy has survived the last 300 years to Alloy of Law. Yes, I'm aware that there is a certain male problem in their population but still, 300 years isn't a long enough time for pure  feruchemy to die out compared to the 1,000 years where it managed to survive.

I agree with the Kleptomaniac idea though, It's clear that Wayne views the world very differently from others, and perhaps it is a matter of him simply thinking steeling identities is fun, or a way to help him handle or understand other people.

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Vortaan

Vortaan

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I don't see why one couldn't be full Mistborn and only have one Ferring ability (or visa versa). It's all suposed to be genetic, so it makes sense. You could do similar things without genetics if you had powers by  Hemalurgy

My main reason for suspecting Wayne of being a Ferrcumist is not just his personality, but in 'Hero of Ages' we learn that the Lord Ruler turned every living Ferrcumist into a mistwraith. Yet a thousand years later, even with the breeding programs, we have Sazed and an entire group of Terris keepers.

So, Despite the Synod being destroyed, it's not that hard to imagine feruchemy has survived the last 300 years to Alloy of Law. Yes, I'm aware that there is a certain male problem in their population but still, 300 years isn't a long enough time for pure  feruchemy to die out compared to the 1,000 years where it managed to survive.

I agree with the Kleptomaniac idea though, It's clear that Wayne views the world very differently from others, and perhaps it is a matter of him simply thinking steeling identities is fun, or a way to help him handle or understand other people.

 

I think you are forgetting some key points about the two time frames. For example, most Terris males at the time of the Final Ascension were either eunuchs, old, or deliberately left for the breeding program. This being the case, the most logical way for the Terris to continue to exist as a people would have been to integrate some of the other refugees from the cave into their society. During the three hundred years following, the Allomantic lines could have certainly weakened the Feruchemical ones to the point where Ferrings are all you get. After all, the whole -point- of the breeding program was to keep Feruchemical abilities to a minimum. 

 

Second: You act as though there were a lot of Keepers about. Evidence seems to point the other way, considering all Keepers were reported killed by Marsh and the Inquisitors. Vin and Elend kill one Inquisitor with a steel spike, Marsh has something like twenty spikes, and the other Inquisitors have fewer. Assuming a high-end number of four additional spikes per Inquisitor, and also assuming that Ruin marshaled all his forces to Luthadel to fight with Vin, we can assume something like 60 or so Keepers (10 spikes in Marsh, 4 in the other 11 Inquisitors, plus a few spares in case I missed something). This leads me to believe that the Keepers were very much a small secret organization, with probably a lot of aid from normal Terris people. This is all theory, but it seems likely to me unless we get WoB that there were a lot more Keepers than I thought.

 

Third thing: we have no evidence that Sazed substantially changed the kandra from their mistwraith-like forms. Yes, someone probably put the spikes back in, but... mimicking muscles is one thing, mimicking an organ to create genetic material that is drastically different than your own? I don't see it happening.

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Melaan

Melaan

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Do you think Harmony changed Kandra like he did with Kolos? So they can have kids the retain some traits?

 

I'm assuming there's WoB on Sazed changing the Kolos right? Sorry, I'm not terribly up to date on things not expressly written or hinted at in the books. As far as I'm concerned, if it's not in the books themselves, then it's not canon yet.

Anyhow. I have trouble seeing Sazed letting the Kolos be their own race and not giving the same gift to the Kandra, unless he has a very specific and important reason not to.

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Pathfinder

Pathfinder

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I'm assuming there's WoB on Sazed changing the Kolos right? Sorry, I'm not terribly up to date on things not expressly written or hinted at in the books. As far as I'm concerned, if it's not in the books themselves, then it's not canon yet.

Anyhow. I have trouble seeing Sazed letting the Kolos be their own race and not giving the same gift to the Kandra, unless he has a very specific and important reason not to.

Well I am hopping back into this thread, so I am unsure if you have read Alloy of Law yet, so just in case I have put this in a spoiler tag below:

 

In Alloy of Law, we see that some is koloss blooded, which means it is in his ancestory. That in and of itself proves that koloss can now breed. So if you are going purely on books, you have that right there.

 

That and I can confirm having read the Words of Brandon where he explicitly states that Sazed altered the koloss to breed true. Regarding the Kandra, I agree I could see him giving them something, but they are still very much his agents in the same sense as they were in the original trilogy. 

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Melaan

Melaan

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Okay thanks, I need to reread Alloy of Law, it's been a while.
Thanks for sourcing from the book though, It kind of bugs me sometimes when Sanderson gives teasers for his own books, granted I still take advantage of it when I can and ask him fun questions :)

Anyhow,  I hope the Kandra get the chance to have relationships and families. However,  from a writing standpoint, having such a different culture like they do in the first books is proabbly more interesting.

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skaa

skaa

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I've always been under the impression that Wayne's a full blown Feruchemist. In his case he's memorizing and storing accents and personalities. (along with his healing ability) In the 'Shadow of Self' preview we see him repeating accents to himself out loud, just as Sazed did in 'Well of Ascension' when recording information about  the Inquisitor stronghold.

 

I just wanted to say that it's no surprise Wayne obtained some of the habits of full Feruchemists. His father was one, after all. :)

Edited by skaa
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Ibunnuk

Ibunnuk

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I just wanted to say that it's no surprise Wayne obtained some of the habits of full Feruchemists. His father was one, after all. :)

 

Sorry this should have been with the above quote. Its been a while since I read AOL but where does it say waynes dad was a full Feruchemist?

Edited by WeiryWriter
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skaa

skaa

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Its been a while since I read AOL but where does it say waynes dad was a full Feruchemist?

 

I got that from the Coppermind, but let's see if I can give you a better source... Alright, here's from Chapter 10:

 

“Did you know you were an Allomancer?” she asked.

“Sure. That was kinda why I was in the Roughs in the first place, but that’s another story. Anyway, bendalloy is hard to make. Bismuth and cadmium aren’t the kinds of metals you find in your corner store. Didn’t know much about Feruchemy yet, though my father was a Feruchemist, so I had an idea. But storing health, it takes gold.”

 

 

So that's the source of the Coppermind article. I don't know if the word "Feruchemist" by itself still implies "full Feruchemist" in Wax-era Scadrial, but this post by Pinpoint last December implies that Wayne considers himself a Terrisman, and full Feruchemists are more likely to appear in Terris than anywhere else. That means there's a good possibility that his father was full Feruchemist.

 

Alright, so I guess I'm not 100% sure. Does anyone have a relevant WoB or something? Googling got me nothing.

 

 

Sorry this should have been with the above quote.

 

No problem. Next time you accidentally post twice, you could hide one of your posts. The Hide button is located to the left of the MultiQuote button.

Edited by skaa
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Ibunnuk

Ibunnuk

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Thanks for the advice regarding double posting. I agree that it's questionable if this means a full Feruchemist but if he does consider himself a terrisman then you would think this is the sort of terminology he would be quite careful and precise with

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WeiryWriter

WeiryWriter

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I'd like the point out that the Coppermind does not say Wayne's father is a "full" Feruchemist.  The term "Feruchemist" does not differentiate between Ferrings and "full" Feruchemist, in the same way "Allomancer" refers to both Mistings and Mistborn.  I feel like a "full" feruchemist occupies the same space in the public consciousness as Mistborn do, i.e. a legend from an older time.

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Melaan

Melaan

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I agree with WeiryWriter, Feruchemist probably refers to both a full Feruchemist and a Ferring.  Though, this means they probably use the term 'Terris' or Terrismen' more lightly now as well. I see it as kind of like the way a Jewish person can be referring to either heritage religion, or both.

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Fatebreaker

Fatebreaker

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Did Ferring's exist before Harmony?  I don't recall any mention of this in the first trilogy.  

 

It's unlikely as the Lord Ruler carefully monitored and regulated the breeding of Terrismen in order to eliminate Feruchemists.

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Pathfinder

Pathfinder

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I forget where it is stated, but there are Words of Brandon that said ferrings arose due to interbreeding with allomancers. that the same thing that caused mistings, by interbreeding screwed around with feruchemists enough that they can produce ferrings. 

Edited by Pathfinder
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Melaan

Melaan

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We have to remember though, the Lord Ruler  WANTED Feruchemists, that way he could create the healing abilities in his Inquisitors. This would imply that the bloodline for Feruchemy might not be as worn down as most of the characters in the book were led to believe 

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