Patrick Star

Champions of Honor and Odium

49 posts in this topic

I also have this sneaking suspicion that Odium will "win" in book 5, and books 6-10 will be the survivors trying to fight back.

 

I'd like that. Story wise it would make a lot of sense. But considering there will be a publication gap up to 5 years, that would be a pretty harsh move on Brandon's part.

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We don't. They do. ; ) There's gonna be a break after book five, with a bit of a time jump. Ten years, if I remember correctly.

 

Thanks Spark!

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I guess I'm going to ask the total noob question, but what is with the emphasis on book 5? And why do we seem to think Kaladin is dying?

I endorse what Spark said below

 

We don't. They do. ; ) There's gonna be a break after book five, with a bit of a time jump. Ten years, if I remember correctly.

Aaaaand there is supposedly a story arc that will complete with book 5. 

 

Brandon says he particularly doesn't mind killing off his characters once they have resolved their issues (although he reserves the right to do so earlier).  The story resolution will probably resolve issues for many of the characters and have boss fights, so it seems logical that characters will die off then. 

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I know he's a big fan of Melanie Rawn, who does mass kill-offs at the conclusion of various story arcs.  I really hope he doesn't do that though.  Killing off a character because just he's "done" with them is sorta annoying, and gets repetitive after a while.

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I could see Kaladin and Moash facing off in book 5...

 

Moash - has been broken, hasn't attracted a spren, broke his oaths, HATES Elhokar (and hatred is synonymous with Odium), could well find himself betrayed by Graves etc (I suspect Moash won't like being used)... 

 

He already was betrayed by Graves, as the Diagram planned Dalinar's assassination, while Moash was being said the plan was for Dalinar to become king.

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Taravangian on his ultimate day of compassion. He was given the capacity to save the world, after all.

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Graves doesn't tell Moash about the intent to kill Dalinar.  Moash ends with:

 

I've been played for one of the ten fools, Moash thought, chin to his chest.  And I don't even know how.

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Could Honor's Champion be... a stick?

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Could Honor's Champion be... a stick?

Honor isn't dead. He simply became a stick as a way of defeating Odium. He's going to give Rayse a splinter.

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Honor isn't dead. He simply became a stick as a way of defeating Odium. He's going to give Rayse a splinter.

That storming pun.

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 Lift is obviously the Champion of Cultivation.  

 

That still leaves Honor and Odium open.  I'd be seriously disappointed if Kaladin was the Champion of Honor, for two reasons. First, it's the logical, obvious pick.  In fact, Kaladin is as obviously the Champion of Honor as

 

Mistborn Spoiler

as obvious as Vin being the Hero of Ages.  And we all know how that worked out.

 

Second, I'm really, really annoyed at him after book 2, and so I find it hard to root for him.  I'm instead going to vote that Szeth ends up being the Champion of Honor, because although I am also annoyed at him, I like to be contrary.

Sorry for Quoting Something from a Long time ago, but some of us are dismissing Kaladin because he's the Obvious Choice, and The Sanderson never goes with the Obvious Choice. But Brandon knows this, and knows that because Kaladin is the Obvious Choice, He isn't the Obvious Choice. So He could get chosen.

 

But Personally, I Agree with Quiver. Elhokar Seems to be the best choice.

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Obviously Gaz is the champion of Honor, and Kaladin ends up pulling a heel-face turn and becomes the champion of Odium. 

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Obviously Gaz is the champion of Honor, and Kaladin ends up pulling a heel-face turn and becomes the champion of Odium. 

 

Don't we have to dismiss this as the obvious choice? ;)

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Sorry for Quoting Something from a Long time ago, but some of us are dismissing Kaladin because he's the Obvious Choice, and The Sanderson never goes with the Obvious Choice. But Brandon knows this, and knows that because Kaladin is the Obvious Choice, He isn't the Obvious Choice. So He could get chosen.

 

But Personally, I Agree with Quiver. Elhokar Seems to be the best choice.

 

There's also the possibility that Kaladin becomes the Champion of Honour and loses.

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He already was betrayed by Graves, as the Diagram planned Dalinar's assassination, while Moash was being said the plan was for Dalinar to become king.

 

Yes, I know.  Graves lied to him.  I don't think Graves has betrayed Moash yet though...  I suspect when they get back to Taravangian, Graves may throw Moash under the bus for not killing Kaladin when he had the chance...

 

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Shallon will be Odium's champion...just because I do not like her. :)

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If you're looking for one of the most unlikely characters to be Honor's Champion, I think Rlain fits that description. How out of left field would it be to have a Voidbringer fighting for Honor against Odium.

To the question about a champion for Cultivation, I don't think there will be one. Isn't Cultivation supposed to be the neutral force?

Edited by tbone5711
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The WoK ch 69 epigraph: All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.

 

I really think this is the key here, and personally, I think it leads to a Dalinar/Kaladin showdown, with Kaladin as Odium's champion. 

 

The problem with Kaladin, is that he already almost killed Syl, and it was even because of his biggest problem. He was already killing her with his thoughts of Amaram, and those haven't been resolved in any way. Kaladin's not going to just accept an apology. So Kaladin goes to attack Amaram, and in doing so, Syl dies. This cracks Kaladin, and instead of hating Amaram, he hates himself. Amaram at this point has also been corrupted, and is working for Odium. There's no way the Sons of Honor will end up serving Honor. 

 

"All is withdrawn for me." Syl is gone. He was probably violating direct orders to go after Amaram, he can't return to Urithiru.  Kaladin's hate for himself is immense at this point. He already had killed Syl once, and doing it a second time, losing the last perspren (pun) he hadn't betrayed or let down, he loathes himself. He doesn't revert back to the chasm Kaladin, he goes full the other direction, and fills himself with hate. 

 

 

 

Definition of ODIUM
1
:  the state or fact of being subjected to hatred and contempt as a result of a despicable act or blameworthy circumstance
 

He's lost his connection to Honor, and he holds the corpse of his last friend. Odium then corrupts him through Amaram. He's standing against Dalinar, which even could be referencing him as their leader, and not the champion, who saved his life from Sadeas. "I protect the one who killed my promises." Amaram literally killed his promises. He promised to keep his men alive, to keep Tien alive. Amaram gave Tien over to be sacrificed, he killed his men for the shards. Each one of those deaths is a promise Kaladin made, that Amaram killed, and now Kaladin is fighting for Amaram's side. 

 

Kaladin owns the sky. I think he will own the Everstorm too. 

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The WoK ch 69 epigraph: All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.

 

 

 

I really think this is the key here, and personally, I think it leads to a Dalinar/Kaladin showdown, with Kaladin as Odium's champion. 

 

 

I still believe this refers to Kal facing Moash and protecting Elo.

 

In case it doesn't and is indeed foreshadowing something, I can't really see Kaladin's hatred of Amaram playing out like that again. I don't think Brandon would let that drag on for so long. I do believe Kal will hit another low, but it would be sort of anticlimactic if Amaram were the cause yet again.

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I really think this is the key here, and personally, I think it leads to a Dalinar/Kaladin showdown, with Kaladin as Odium's champion.

I agree Kaladin will end up as Odium's champion. It might not even be tied to Amaram - my broad idea was that he realises he can't live up to his own expectations of lighteyes, and loses faith in himself/humanity that way.

I'm not so sure about your interpretation of the death rattle, mostly because they tend to translate fairly literally, so it would require a very quick transition from killing Amaram to champion of Odium. I actually think "the one who killed my promises" would refer to himself, after breaking his commitments to his men, Dalinar, et al. and the KR oaths. This would demonstrate the self-loathing I imagine he would be feeling at that point.

I'd also point out that - if I'm interpreting correctly - Kaladin has Jezrien's Honorblade, so he even gets to keep the surges he's used to if he kills Syl again.

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That deathrattle obviously refers to Moash and Elhokar, go read the title of the chapter where Dalinar tells Kal about Roshone.

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Szeth for honor and venli for odium.

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I would assume that Honor's champion is Artmyrn, the bookseller Shallan met in TWOK, and Odium's champion is Barnest, his rival.

 

They will have an epic literary showdown.

Whenever I see one of your posts, I brace myself for hilarity.

This is so because of your drunken "103% Stormlight 3 spoilers"

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Whenever I see one of your posts, I brace myself for hilarity.

This is so because of your drunken "103% Stormlight 3 spoilers"

Dude, please stop.  It's annoying.

MTG-ThreadNecromancer_3198.jpg

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