Jump to content

Champions of Honor and Odium

Patrick Star

By Patrick Star
in Stormlight Archive

 Share

Recommended Posts

Patrick Star

Patrick Star

Posted
Posted
This is a theory/speculation (mostly speculation) thread as to the final identities of the champions of Honor and Odium.

 

I'll start first.

 

I think that Kaladin will be Honor's champion.

 

Kaladin has quite obviously experienced some supernatural force influencing his life, outside of his bond with Syl (and the Stormfather).

 

Not including Bridge 4, the amount of times that he's been the only survivor is quite ridiculous.  He was spared by Amaram and at least 2 or 3 other owners (after violent escape attempts).

 

With his history and Amaram's values, that should not have happened.  In addition, he exudes some unnamable characteristic that EVERYBODY notices. While this might just be a fantastic prescence, I do think that he's being watched over by some outside power (other than Syl).

 

Also, I really don't want Dalinar to be Honor's champion.  I just really don't.

 

 

For Odium's champion, I'm going to wager that it will be a human and not a listener who ends up taking the role.

 

I know that Eshonai (or her sister) is the most sensible and logical pick, but I really think that the Champion will be a corrupted human.

 

I'm really hoping that Amaram will wind up being Odium's champion.

 

With Dalinar's sting and the eventual news that Kaladin's an honorblade-wielding radiant, Amaram is going to be ANGRY!!!  We already saw him resent his "mercy" and loss of Dalinar's friendship.

 

Odium will use this anger to corrupt him and turn him into his champion.

 

 

However, my largest reason for picking these two is that I'm just looking forward to a climactic Kaladin vs Amaram battle (with Kaladin winning, of course).

 

 

Who are you guys expecting the two champions to be?

3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rybal

Rybal

Posted
Posted

I wouldn't be surprised if Adolin is one of the champions. Bonus points if he and Kaladin are opposing champions, especially since they seem to be becoming something akin to friends.

 

Of course, knowing Brandon's style, I also wouldn't be surprised if the champion was not a fighter in any way, if only because that would be unexpected.

1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
HydrogenAlpha

HydrogenAlpha

Posted
Posted (edited)

After Sazed turning out to be the Hero of Ages I don't think we can predict this so easily. We have to go for a weird, unexpected guess.. like Lopen or Elhokar. I would love to see Kaladin as the champion of Honor, but I don't think that he will live through book 5.  Hoid's story convinced me of this.
Another thing I would find interesting would be just having one champion who's able to choose what side he'll be on in the end.

 

Edit: spelling

Edited by HydrogenAlpha
Link to comment
Share on other sites
bartbug

bartbug

Posted
Posted

@HydrogenAlpha: Nice to see another person who knows of Kal's certain death in 5. Though, I think that the clash of champions thing could actually occur in book 5, with Kaladin dying, yet his spirit still finishing it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aoibheann

Aoibheann

Posted
Posted (edited)

The WoK ch 69 epigraph: All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.

I keep coming back to this as someone who ends up being a voidbinder and possibly Odium's champion. My list of contenders: Amaram, Moash, Elkohar, Sadeas (not any more), or Szeth.

Right now I'm thinking it's Amaram, but I could be persuaded.

Edited by Aoibheann
1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
RadiantNights

RadiantNights

Posted
Posted (edited)

I keep thinking nan balat will somehow become the champion for odium. He seems the most sadistic of the secondary characters, pulling off legs of cremlings and beating his axehound pups. How long before that sick behavior starts to get pointed at humans? Especially since the ghostbloods have kinda an influence on him after kidnapping him off their estates. They might push him over the top and point him in the wrong direction.

Seems like he might attract a voidspren with all that nastiness

Edit: ohhh just thought of this to. If balats girlfriend (forgot her name) were to die he would go really dark, he described her as the only good thing to ever happen to him

Edited by RadiantNights
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mr Maker

Mr Maker

Posted
Posted

The WoK ch 69 epigraph: All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.

I keep coming back to this as someone who ends up being a voidbinder and possibly Odium's champion. My list of contenders: Amaram, Moash, Elkohar, Sadeas (not any more), or Szeth.

Right now I'm thinking it's Amaram, but I could be persuaded.

 

In the context of this thread this quote is very very interesting.

 

Who has been saved by one, then had their promises duty to others removed by another?

 

Could be Seth standing against the herald that revived him, protecting Kaladin - the one that killed him unlinking him from his oathstone.

Could be Kaladin standing against Dalinar, protecting Amaram.

 

Heaps of interesting possibilities just from that quote.

2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
hoser

hoser

Posted
Posted (edited)

Kaladin seems a frontrunner for Honor's champion.  Jasnah and Shallan also seem possible, although I think their spren are more associated with Cultivation. 

 

Speaking of which, does Cultivation get a champion?

 

I like the names mentioned above, including Lift.

 

I can imagine Szeth becoming a Champion for either side. 

 

As for Odium's champion, Nalan seems possible.  Odium's champions should hate Odium and themselves. 

 

So clearly Renarin will be Honor's champion. 

 

The WoK ch 69 epigraph: All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.

WOR Spoiler

I think this is Kaladin standing against Moash and protecting the king.  He said the words (the Stormfather accepted them), raised his hand, Syl became a blade and he became a Radiant (the storm responding).  Moash had saved his life at least once when he tried to charge across a bridge as cavalry were crossing.  Elhokar sent Kaladin to prison, which triggered his forsworn-ness. 

 

Edit: added Renarin

Edited by hoser
3
Link to comment
Share on other sites
kaellok

kaellok

Posted
Posted (edited)

Lift with her awesomeness would make a great champion

 Lift is obviously the Champion of Cultivation.  

 

That still leaves Honor and Odium open.  I'd be seriously disappointed if Kaladin was the Champion of Honor, for two reasons. First, it's the logical, obvious pick.  In fact, Kaladin is as obviously the Champion of Honor as

 

Mistborn Spoiler

as obvious as Vin being the Hero of Ages.  And we all know how that worked out.

 

Second, I'm really, really annoyed at him after book 2, and so I find it hard to root for him.  I'm instead going to vote that Szeth ends up being the Champion of Honor, because although I am also annoyed at him, I like to be contrary.

Edited by kaellok
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spark

Spark

Posted
Posted

Hm. I guess I could live with Kaladin dying at some point during the series, but halfway through? I'd be upset.

I remember starting WoK and thinking: Oh, so Cem is the main protag.. oh, never mind. I don't know, it's just personal taste, but I like it to have one character in whose story I'm more invested than in others'. I think I would feel sort of cheated if he only made it half way through. 

 

As for the champions, Kaladin vs Adolin seems, at least at this point, the most obvious pairing. If only because the emotional stakes are higher  when former friends are pitched against each other. 

 

As for Szeth.. that would be a let-down. Although I'm curious what Brandon comes up with during the next few books to make him more of an interesting character again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
don_karma_II

don_karma_II

Posted
Posted

Honor's champion won't have a happy ending. He would probably give his life to protect the others and thus proving that honor reigns. Kaladin is a good choice as he has qualities to be champions of both the shards. He will be forced to choose which one and will die in the end on a winning cause.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Quiver

Quiver

Posted
Posted

I'm going to throw out a curve ball here, as a candidate for the champion of Honor:

 

Elhokar.

 

"But Quiver!" you say. "Elhokar is an idiot! He whines, he's a drunk, he's basically a puppet dancing on a set of strings."

Exactly.

 

I can't draw on sources from what we've seen so far, since even after he decided he was going to do better and win over the kingdom, and Kaladin, he was treated like an infant by Lopen's mother. It might be a little... awkward, once the story is over, to go back and see the Champion of Honor being babied that way.

 

That's exactly why it should happen.

 

First- for me, all of the characters at the moment seem too obvious as potential Champion candidates. Kaladin is bonded to an Honorspren, Dalinar was judged honorable enough to recieve the Stormfather's visions, Adolin's talents as a duelist might fit well with the Champion angle... it all fits together very neatly, and the only question is which of them it would be. It being someone who wasn't even in the running, like Elhokar, would be all the more surprising.

 

Secondly-It would really make the plot in WoR more ironic in retrospect, if the man targeted (for perfectly understandable reasons) ended up being the man to save the world.

 

Thirdly- Elhokar has decided he wants to win the people over, to the point he wants to learn from Kaladin how to be a hero. We have to wait for Stones Unhallowed to see if that resolution holds up when he isn't halfway down a bottle, but it indicates a direction his character arc could take. In fact, it kind of parrallels the journey Dalinar took between the Prologue and the modern day. Dalinar's life changed when he was too drunk at a feast, leading him to dedicate his life to becoming a more honorable person. Who is to say Elhokar won't do the same?

 

Fourthly- Elhokar isn't sheltered or incompetent. He's only had one moment to strut his stuff, that's true, but remember what it was. He ripped a gemheart out of a Chasmfiend and was surrounded with gloryspren. He impressed the nobles who accompanied them there. Gloryspren (if I recall correctly) are exceedingly rare, so I think any instance they appear can be considered important.

 

Fifth- The Stormlight Archive contains questions about kingsmanship. The Way of Kings details Nohadon's beliefs on how a king should act. Dalinar's story arc invovles him being reluctant to divest power to anyone other than himself. The leader of the Heralds was a king. It just strikes me as being rather appropriate that the Champion of Honor would be a king as well- a king who has learned what his title means, and how he has to act to protect the people.

7
Link to comment
Share on other sites
LloydSev

LloydSev

Posted
Posted (edited)

Why wouldn't Cultivation have a champion as well? I think we are ignoring a large part of the equation if we don't take Cultivation into account to the possible end of Roshar.

Edit:

I'm not a believer in Lift being a champion of Cultivation, simply because Jasnah would seem to be a better fit for that role. The real question is whether Elsecaller's Spren are of Honor or Cultivation? What about Shallan and Cryptics?

And Renarin is a Truthseer, which is noted by Honor as being of Cultivation. (Cultivation is better at this than I.)

Or for that matter, what about Szeth and Skybreaker's Spren since they don't resemble anything honorable at all (rule of law is more important than what is right/honorable). They kill to get revenge against those who break the law.

Edited by LloydSev
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Aoibheann

Aoibheann

Posted
Posted

@hoser - You are so right!  Last night during my re-read I got to the WoR chapter "The One Who Killed Promises"

 

WoR spoiler:

This chapter includes Dalinar's visit to Kaladin. They discuss the "Roshone affair".

By my read Elkohar could be the person Kaladin is blaming for "killing his promises"

 

So ignore my post above.  I don't think this necessarily refers to something nefarious anymore.... I mean "protecting" is good.  Right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ren

Ren

Posted
Posted (edited)

After Sazed turning out to be the Hero of Ages I don't think we can predict this so easily. We have to go for a weird, unexpected guess.. like Lopen or Elhokar. I would love to see Kaladin as the champion of Honor, but I don't think that he will live through book 5.  Hoid's story convinced convinced me of this.

Another thing I would find interesting would be just having one champion who's able to choose what side he'll be on in the end.

Glad to see another one thinking like me. The Hero of Ages prophecy was a nice brainstorming, very well foreshadowed.

Now, for TSA. I also think Kal won't survive long enough to be the one to save us all, neither Dalinar.

Szeth is my choice simply for being who he was. 

Not because, he's scared of being rejected by whiny lighteyes.

Not because, he's afraid he had killed so many people and they would torture him in his dreams.

But because, he does what it has to be done. He always does that. He doesn't rely on emotion like many others. Odium, like Ruin, seems to be master manipulator and what's easier to manipulate, other than emotions?

I know you might say that he'll take his revenge on the Stone Shamans and all. And how that is the path of Odium, but I believe that under Nale's command, Szeth will be fine.

Another option of mine is Vasher, because I think its about time for him to quit being a lazy swordmaster Ardent.

Edited by Ren
1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Falconite

Falconite

Posted
Posted

I could see Kaladin and Moash facing off in book 5...

 

Moash - has been broken, hasn't attracted a spren, broke his oaths, HATES Elhokar (and hatred is synonymous with Odium), could well find himself betrayed by Graves etc (I suspect Moash won't like being used)...  He's always seemed to have a darkness about him.  I could see him attracting an unmade or something and becoming Odium's champion

 

I would envisage the fight being something along the lines of the following - Kaladin would be the superior fighter, and winning.  But he spares Moash's life to "protect" one of his men...  life before death and all that...  and then gets killed for his trouble, but finally sets down his boulder about not being able to save his men before his death...  (side note - I really enjoyed the bit in WoR when Dalinar set down his "boulder" realising he couldn't have saved Gavilar - referencing the boulder parable from tWoK).

 

(and then ironically, it wouldn't surprise me if he got healed or something or came back as a herald).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Spark

Spark

Posted
Posted

I guess I'm going to ask the total noob question, but what is with the emphasis on book 5? And why do we seem to think Kaladin is dying?

 

We don't. They do. ; ) There's gonna be a break after book five, with a bit of a time jump. Ten years, if I remember correctly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RShara

RShara

Posted
Posted

I'm starting to wonder if one of the Heralds will end up being Odium's champion.  Nale seems to be heading in that direction.  Honor's champion I think needs to be someone who can fight really well, so that would be Kaladin.

 

I also have this sneaking suspicion that Odium will "win" in book 5, and books 6-10 will be the survivors trying to fight back.

1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...