whattheHoid

Vivenna/Azure question, [OB]

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I honestly don't know where to put this question: in Oathbringer or Warbreaker. Apologies. I had a question about Vivenna. I know she can change her hair color, but can she change her eye color? 

Spoiler

In Oathbringer, when we see Azure/Vivenna her eyes are described as orange. Were her eyes always orange? Or did she change them?

Spoiler

Also in Oathbringer, Kaladin and Adolin both make a note that she "had her cloak off and held oddly in one hand, wrapped around her forearm, with part of it draping down below." And, "Curiously, Azure had removed her cloak and wrapped it half around her left arm." Adolin theorizes that she is accustomed to fighting in Plate. My question is why is she doing that? I assume the cloak is Awakened? Or maybe stores her Breath? Does she use it to fighting or grapple as we saw Vasher do in Warbreaker? Can Breath make something like cloth "become like armour?" I find it curious that out of everything "off" about Azure, from her Shardblade to being a woman in command of an Alethi Wall Guard, that Adolin and Kaladin make note of this cloak. 

Again, thank you guys and much apologies if this is in the wrong thread.

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It's highly likely

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Vasher Explains Some Things, but Leaves Some Things Hidden

I'm worried about leaving Vivenna's two questions unanswered. One is pretty obvious—how Vasher can hide how he looks—but the other is unintuitive. I wish I could explain better in the book, as I said above, but I decided in the end to just leave it hanging. It's a bit of a violation of Sanderson's First Law, but not a big one. The reason I feel I can get away with it is because Vasher didn't use his nature as a Returned to solve any problems. It is more a flavoring for his character than it is important to him getting out of danger or fixing things. He could have done everything he needed to in this book without being Returned. So I feel it's okay not to explain why he can be Returned and not die when he gives away his Breaths.

Can Vivenna change her appearance more? She can indeed. She could actually stoke that fragment of a divine Breath inside of her and start glowing like a Returned. She can't change her physical features to look like someone else, but she can change her age, her height (within reason), and her body shape (to an extent). It takes practice.

And yes, the scraggly miscreant is how Vasher sees himself. Not noble and Returned, which is part of how he suppresses his divine Breath.

Events in the second book may change that.

source
Quote

Questioner

In the Stormlight Archive we saw the sword from Warbreaker and we also know that the royal line can change more than just their hair, will that come into play?

Brandon Sanderson

They can! What’s that?

Questioner

...will that come into play?

Brandon Sanderson

That will come into play, keep your eyes open.

source

That said eye color has special significance on Roshar so its possible her eye color there reflects her bond with her blade and can't be altered. It's really speculation. 

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Ok, follow up question. Do you bond with an Awakened Blade? Is it somewhat reminiscent of a Nahel Bond? For example, what would happen to Vivenna's eye color if she were to bond with Nightblood? If any? Or is this not only because of the bond, but because Nightblood and presumably Vivenna's Blade are so highly Invested?

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Nightblood at least does bond. 

Quote

Argent (paraphrased)

How is it that Nightblood, who is merely a near-sentient awakened object, was able to read minds, something a Shard like Ruin was unable to do?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It requires bonding (with the person whose mind is to be read) to read minds.

source

 

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So anyone who holds Nightblood will be able to communicate and bond? Or does Nightblood have to accept the person holding itself? Can Nightblood just refuse to communicate/bond with someone, if the person is perceived as evil, according to Nightblood?

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1 hour ago, whattheHoid said:

So anyone who holds Nightblood will be able to communicate and bond? Or does Nightblood have to accept the person holding itself? Can Nightblood just refuse to communicate/bond with someone, if the person is perceived as evil, according to Nightblood?

You have to survive him feeding on you. 

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Another note here is that Nightblood can sense where Vasher is. This is because Nightblood has ingested and fed off Vasher's Breaths in the past. When he does that, it connects him to someone. It's also, by the way, one of the secrets as to why Vasher doesn't get sick when holding Nightblood, even though he's a good person. It's not simply familiarity (though that is part of it). Nightblood has a built-in test. If he feeds off you and you survive, then you become somewhat immune to his powers.

source

 

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Ah so this would be why presumably 

Spoiler

Nightblood likes Szeth and Lift seeing as it fed off both of them. 

Does an evil person taste different to Nightblood?

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He kind of goes into a food coma after killing - I don't know that he's aware of whether he's killing evil people or good ones, be he absolutely enjoys being wielded. 

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I don't think he is aware. It seems like Nightblood's consciousness is in a trance when it is drawn. But I believe Nightblood genuinely enjoys slaying evil or what it perceives to be. 

Spoiler

I think Nightblood has a semi accurate evil sensor as it thinks that Nale is evil. And while the Heralds may not be evil, they are insane and can't be trusted. Maybe Nightblood can pick up on insanity?

 

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23 hours ago, whattheHoid said:

I don't think he is aware. It seems like Nightblood's consciousness is in a trance when it is drawn. But I believe Nightblood genuinely enjoys slaying evil or what it perceives to be. 

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I think Nightblood has a semi accurate evil sensor as it thinks that Nale is evil. And while the Heralds may not be evil, they are insane and can't be trusted. Maybe Nightblood can pick up on insanity?

 

Maybe Nightblood can pick up on instability and other forms of indecisiveness that might lead to someone being evil.

Edited by Invocation
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The test is whether someone wants to use him for personal selfish gain (which is what determines whether people around him feel sick or not). But once he's wielded the test is simply whatever his wielder thinks. Including them thinking they are themselves evil. 

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Chapter Thirty-Five

Vivenna Awakes, Bound by Vasher

This chapter—with what happens in the latter part of it—is the most dangerous in the book. Dangerous to me as an author, I mean. I love good plot twists, but I worry about leaving them without proper foreshadowing. I've never done something as drastic as I have in this book, having a group of sympathetic characters turn out to be working for the wrong side. I hope it succeeds, but I know that if it doesn't, readers will be very mad. Nothing is sloppier than a book with unearned changes in character motivation.

But we're not there quite yet. Before that we have the first real interaction between Vivenna and Vasher. He gives her what he likes to think of as the Nightblood test. One nice thing about having a sword that "cannot tempt the hearts of those who are pure" is that when someone like Vivenna touches it, she gets sick. I didn't want Nightblood to come across as a "one ring" knockoff. He doesn't turn people's hearts or corrupt them. However, in order to be able to do his job and fulfill his Command, he needs the ability to determine who is good and who is evil.

This, of course, isn't an easy thing to determine. In fact, I don't think it's a black or white issue for most people. When Nightblood was created, the Breaths infused in him did their best to interpret their Command. What they decided was evil was someone who would try to take the sword and use it for evil purposes, selling it, manipulating and extorting others, that sort of thing. Someone who wouldn't want the sword for those reasons was determined to be good. If they touch the weapon, they feel sick. If others touch the weapon, their desire to kill and destroy with it is enhanced greatly.

Nightblood himself, unfortunately, doesn't quite understand what good and evil are. (This is mentioned later in the text.) However, he knows that his master can determine who is good and who is evil—using the sword's power to make people sick, or through other means. So, he pretty much just lets whoever is holding him decide what is evil. And if the one holding the sword determines—deep within their heart—that they are evil themselves, then they will end up killing themselves with the sword.

Vivenna passes the test, which surprises Vasher. He thought that she'd be the type who would use Nightblood to kill and destroy. (He doesn't have a high opinion of her, obviously. Of course, that's partially because he's let his temper dictate what he thinks.)

source

 

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Interesting, I guess we'll have more concrete evidence as we see Nightblood...

Spoiler

Meeting the other Heralds and/or unstable people in Urithiru. I wonder how he'd react to Taravangian, Malata, and Mraize.

 

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He is not too accurate indeed, Nightblood's test is really semplicistic.

For example anyone not interested in NB whatever the reason is ..would be detected as "good" by him. Also if that guy is the worst evil dude of the Cosmere.

On the other side a greedy but good people would be detected as "evil". 

And Nightblood seems to not know how the people are... simply the people around feel the nausea or lust when facing him...but nothing suggest he knows 

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On 17.08.2018 at 2:47 AM, whattheHoid said:

 

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Also in Oathbringer, Kaladin and Adolin both make a note that she "had her cloak off and held oddly in one hand, wrapped around her forearm, with part of it draping down below." And, "Curiously, Azure had removed her cloak and wrapped it half around her left arm." Adolin theorizes that she is accustomed to fighting in Plate. My question is why is she doing that? I assume the cloak is Awakened? Or maybe stores her Breath? Does she use it to fighting or grapple as we saw Vasher do in Warbreaker? Can Breath make something like cloth "become like armour?" I find it curious that out of everything "off" about Azure, from her Shardblade to being a woman in command of an Alethi Wall Guard, that Adolin and Kaladin make note of this cloak. 

 

Adolin probably thinks that she is using cloack like an armour, but he doesn't see that cloack as enough protection to be used that way. The cloack is probably awakened to protect to make it not only more resistant, but also because Investiture it would protect to some level from magic and shardblades.

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@Szmit Thank you!!! Storms! That has been bugging me!! I had to know about that cloak!!!

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I think it's likely awakened, or at least being held at the ready to be, given the hanging length that would otherwise be a liability.  The other, simpler side of it might be that her blade will cause visible effects on it's wielder the way Nightblood does and Shardblades do not.  Assuming whatever effect is temporary she'd only need to hide it during actual combat.

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