Fanghur Rahl

What Ideal is Jasnah on?

24 posts in this topic

I’m just curious, do we know what level of Radiant Jasnah is yet? We know she isn’t a full Radiant yet since she doesn’t have her armor or she presumably would have summoned it, and also because she clearly isn’t at her full potential when it comes to realm-hopping seeing as it took her over a year to get back from Shadesmar. But seeing how ludicrously overpowered she is in the Battle of Thaylen Field  in terms of her Soulcasting even without her armor, it wouldn’t at all surprise me if she’s at least sworn her Fourth Ideal. Are there any WOBs addressing this? I wasn’t able to find any.

Edited by Fanghur Rahl
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We don't know for sure, but it's highly likely that she has Shardplate already, so at least 4th, imo. It wouldn't surprise me if she were already 5th Oath, though, since she's been a Radiant for a good 6 years now.

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If she already has her Plate then why wouldn’t she have summoned it during the Battle of Thaylen Field? Or against the Ghostblood assassins for that matter? If ever there was a time to summon your armor, it’s when you’re being attacked by an army of Voidbringers.

Edited by Fanghur Rahl
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4 minutes ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

If she already has her Plate then why wouldn’t she have summoned it during the Battle of Thaylen Field? Or against the Ghostblood assassins for that matter? If ever there was a time to summon your armor, it’s when you’re being attacked by an army of Voidbringers.

The scene during the battle where Adolin finds her with fading geometric shapes has been thought by some to be indicative of her dismissing her shardplate. Maybe she didn't want to stand out more than she already was. 

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4 minutes ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

If she already has her Plate then why wouldn’t she have summoned it during the Battle of Thaylen Field? Or against the Ghostblood assassins for that matter? If ever there was a time to summon your armor, it’s when you’re being attacked by an army of Voidbringers.

There's a good chunk of us who think she did, and that that's what Adolin saw fading around her. 

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Just now, Calderis said:

There's a good chunk of us who think she did, and that that's what Adolin saw fading around her. 

I’d actually completely forgotten about that, I’ll have to listen to that part again. Regardless though, I still don’t think she can be a full Radiant just because of the fact that the realm-hopping side of her power is clearly not at its full potential yet (unless realm-hopping is supposed to be a hugely inexact ‘science’.

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2 minutes ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

Regardless though, I still don’t think she can be a full Radiant just because of the fact that the realm-hopping side of her power is clearly not at its full potential yet (unless realm-hopping is supposed to be a hugely inexact ‘science’.

There aren't many sources of stormlight in the cognitive realm. Doesn't matter how good she is at realm hopping if she doesn't have anything to power her abilities. Some theorize that the only way she escaped was with assistance from Honor's Perpendicularity.

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12 minutes ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

If she already has her Plate then why wouldn’t she have summoned it during the Battle of Thaylen Field? Or against the Ghostblood assassins for that matter? If ever there was a time to summon your armor, it’s when you’re being attacked by an army of Voidbringers.

Yeah as Cal said, I'm pretty sure she has Plate already, and was using it discretely during the battle. She just doesn't want to let her enemies know more about her than she can help. That way, if they over or under estimate her, she wins.

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2 hours ago, RShara said:

Yeah as Cal said, I'm pretty sure she has Plate already, and was using it discretely during the battle. She just doesn't want to let her enemies know more about her than she can help. That way, if they over or under estimate her, she wins.

Definitely agree with this.  Unfortunately, I don't agree with you about Jasnah being at the Final Ideal.  The reason why I say this has to do with some oddities involving Nale that make me wonder if you literally merge with your spren (and gain extra benefits) as part of the Final Ideal.  I'm giving it more time to simmer in my head before I make an actual post about those thoughts, though, but the short version is that I wonder if people who are at the Fifth Ideal gain supernatural senses related to their spren, specifically what that spren is drawn towards (identifying candidates for that Order is where I'm going with this).

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17 hours ago, Wandering Investor said:

There aren't many sources of stormlight in the cognitive realm. Doesn't matter how good she is at realm hopping if she doesn't have anything to power her abilities. Some theorize that the only way she escaped was with assistance from Honor's Perpendicularity.

Maybe, although it seems awfully convenient for her to have exactly the amount of Stormlight on her to get her into Shadesmar but not enough for anything else, especially seeing as how the implication is that the higher level of Radiant you are the less Stormlight your surges require. 

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3 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

Maybe, although it seems awfully convenient for her to have exactly the amount of Stormlight on her to get her into Shadesmar but not enough for anything else, especially seeing as how the implication is that the higher level of Radiant you are the less Stormlight your surges require. 

She had enough Stormlight to get her into Shadesmar, but not much more.  It's clear from the deleted scene, that (after healing her wound) she only had a few small spheres left, just enough to Soulcast the ropes binding the captured sailors.  

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7 hours ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

Maybe, although it seems awfully convenient for her to have exactly the amount of Stormlight on her to get her into Shadesmar but not enough for anything else, especially seeing as how the implication is that the higher level of Radiant you are the less Stormlight your surges require. 

Well, maybe it takes a LOT of stormlight to get there. If it takes 50 stormlight units to transfer to and from shadesmar, then it doesn't matter if she had 52 or 99 - either way, that's a one way trip. Soulcasting might take less. We don't really know much about the quantities required for certain actions, yet. I don't think. Could definitely be wrong about that.

4 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

She had enough Stormlight to get her into Shadesmar, but not much more.  It's clear from the deleted scene, that (after healing her wound) she only had a few small spheres left, just enough to Soulcast the ropes binding the captured sailors.  

I just have to say that this was my first time coming across this deleted scene, and I hope it makes it into a Stormlight Secret History at some point. It was really fun to read!

Edited by tmnsquirtle
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15 minutes ago, tmnsquirtle said:

I just have to say that this was my first time coming across this deleted scene, and I hope it makes it into a Stormlight Secret History at some point. It was really fun to read!

OH. MY. GOD. 

Stormlight Secret History! How epic would that be! We could have Jasnah's entire trip to Shadesmar and maybe also Azure's? 

Brandon has to do this. He has to. 

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On 8/17/2018 at 5:05 AM, Fanghur Rahl said:

Maybe, although it seems awfully convenient for her to have exactly the amount of Stormlight on her to get her into Shadesmar but not enough for anything else, especially seeing as how the implication is that the higher level of Radiant you are the less Stormlight your surges require. 

It also matters how long she was there. Stormlight fades rather quickly.

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Yeah, that’s true. Actually now that I think of it, did she even manage to get out by herself or did Hoid somehow get her out? Or did he just conveniently manage to use his powers to be in the exact spot she eventually emerged from? 

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40 minutes ago, Fanghur Rahl said:

Yeah, that’s true. Actually now that I think of it, did she even manage to get out by herself or did Hoid somehow get her out? Or did he just conveniently manage to use his powers to be in the exact spot she eventually emerged from? 

Jasnah appears to have gotten herself out, or at least found an escape route from the other side. Hoid managed to be where he needed to be, as per his usual methods, whatever those are.

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33 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

Jasnah appears to have gotten herself out, or at least found an escape route from the other side. Hoid managed to be where he needed to be, as per his usual methods, whatever those are.

Time Lords work in mysterious ways.

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4/5 oaths seems the most plot appropriate.  Jasnah is an overachiever and we have suggestions that she has plate of her own in the final battle.  Also this earlier blurb in Oathbringer (when the gang was discussing strategy and Jasnah was chastising Shallan for failing to keep notes)

Quote

Shallan - "I mean I'm a full Radiant now."

"Radiant, yes," Jasnah said. "Full? Where's your armor?"

"Um...armor?"

Jasnah sighed softly,

Just the way Jasnah deliver this line is classic scholar/nerd One-upmanship.  All it's missing is an "Um actually,..."  I still find myself doing this accidentally from time to time.  Someone implies they're really great and knowledgeable about a topic, you shoot back with a more complicated question/challenge to suggest that your knowledge/skill still exceeds their own.  The subtext of this little exchange seems pretty clear to me that: 1) Jasnah herself has shardplate 2) Jasnah is implying to Shallan that Shallan still has a lot to learn and she should stop thinking quite so highly of herself. 

It would make sense though if she still had one oath level unachieved to leave room open for further character growth.  Also, that final oath seems to make Nale nervous...something about Herald powers I suspect hasn't been fully explained yet.

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I think Shallan and Jasnah are at nearly the same level. 4 Oaths for Jasnah, 1st Oath and 3 Truths for Shallan. It was stated that Shallan as of the end of WOR was an Oath further than Kaladin and he's clearly at 3. Shallan doesn't have plate yet because she hasn't fully assimilated her latest Truth (that she killed her mom). But at the battle of Thaylen City we see Shallan with Brightness and Veil all together, her consciousness with Brightness and her wearing garnet Shardplate. It's ambiguous as to weather the plate is real or illusion. Anyway, I don't think either is at Oath 5 yet.

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Shallan doesn't have plate yet because it's another thing she's suppressed. 

Quote

He grinned. “You said that Jasnah was a Radiant too. Women, gaining Shardblades. It’s weird, but it’s not like we can ignore it. What about Plate? Do you have that hidden somewhere too?”
“Not that I know of,” she said. Her heart was beating quickly, her skin growing cold, her muscles tense. She fought against the sensation. “I don’t know where Plate comes from.”

She most likely reached this "level" when she was young and it's more of her messed up childhood stuff. 

Quote

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said that at one point Shallan may have said all the oaths for her order (or may have been capable of saying all of the oaths by the end of the book) but has since regressed due to "memory loss/repression."

source

The illusion of Radiant at the end in Garnet Shardplate strongly suggests to me that she's aware of what her Plate should look like. 

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6 hours ago, Calderis said:

She most likely reached this "level" when she was young and it's more of her messed up childhood stuff. 

I’ve been thinking she had to be somewhere around truth 6 or 7 now since she had a freaking shardblade as a little kid and then started telling truths again. And yes, I know that would be too many. Unless Lightweavers get their blade after the Ideal of Radiance, there is no way Shallan has only completed truth 4...unless she regressed.

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5 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@Juanaton she did. In the WoB I posted above it's mentioned. 

Yeah, I wasn’t clear (again). I had been thinking what I posted above and the WoB you posted confirmed my thinking that she must have regressed because giving a blade to a 1st ideal radiant didn’t make sense so I was appreciating that...

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