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41 minutes ago, goody153 said:

That was kinda a different case because none of the guests were expected a steelrunner rampaging through them and it was a tight room but it was different in their first confrontation with Wax as it was an expected conflict. She was running away straight for the governor but Wax was catching up and almost caught her even through steelrunning

You could say that bleeder had no plan of hurting wax but it's still the same that Wax actually managed to both hit her with a gun and catchup with her through steel. Bleeder definitely did not want to get caught as she did try so hard to escape as that would be game over for her.

Even as an expert Kandra she could sustain enough damage to be immobile(she was actually on the verge of it before escaping and losing Wax outside) 

Even if the people she shot weren't expecting her there, the fact that she shot four shots from four different places all aimed and accurate whilst they all were so close together it sounded like a single shot, then she was literally moving faster than sound. 

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Or in this exchange

Quote

I’m sorry,” Bleeder whispered. “For what I have to do. Cleaning the wound is often more painful than the cut itself. You will see, and understand, once you are free.”
“No, we—”
The mists churned. Wax stumbled back, swinging his gun toward something that had passed in a blur, leaving a corridor of swirling mist.
Bleeder. Moving with Feruchemical speed.
Toward the governor.

She was in a window a for above him and passed him in an instant and was just a visual blur. 

If he caught her. She let him. 

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16 minutes ago, Mistborn Radiant said:

Even if the people she shot weren't expecting her there, the fact that she shot four shots from four different places all aimed and accurate whilst they all were so close together it sounded like a single shot, then she was literally moving faster than sound. 

Or it could be an element of surprise. Perception and assumption can shape so much of what seemed to have happened in the perspective of those involved. And even if it was an outside assessment Wax didn't truly see what happened and his perception of her speed could be wrong. He just assumed that is what happened.

But did Bleeder really move at the speed of sound ? I mean i've read ridiculous ww2 stories about a single person making an entire military outpost feel like they're being invaded by canada lmao(i'll try to find which one of the recollection of some soldier of ww2 was this .. it was pretty funny to read something that sounds like a bugbunny stuff that really happened irl). If that happen so can people assume she moves too fast.

I don't think she can really do that considering that there's an upperlimit to steelrunning with you actually burning away.

6 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Or in this exchange

She was in a window a for above him and passed him in an instant and was just a visual blur. 

If he caught her. She let him. 

I don't buy it as she did try to escape later.  

She was having a struggle later in the room with Wayne and she was riddled by bullets. 

If she was trying to talk to Wax she already done it before she went in there would be no reason to play with Wax as she could easily get caught.

I think people overestimate steelrunning. Even Vin could see steelrunning of an inquisitor happen and make a Koloss react to it(remember when Elend almost got spiked by Ruin's inquisitor yeah) and pretty sure Koloss should be slower than pewter allomancer. Which means that steelrunning isn't as fast as we assumed it is. 

Edited by goody153
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31 minutes ago, goody153 said:

Or it could be an element of surprise. Perception and assumption can shape so much of what seemed to have happened in the perspective of those involved. And even if it was an outside assessment Wax didn't truly see what happened and his perception of her speed could be wrong. He just assumed that is what happened.

But did Bleeder really move at the speed of sound ? I mean i've read ridiculous ww2 stories about a single person making an entire military outpost feel like they're being invaded by canada lmao(i'll try to find which one of the recollection of some soldier of ww2 was this .. it was pretty funny to read something that sounds like a bugbunny stuff that really happened irl). If that happen so can people assume she moves too fast.

I don't think she can really do that considering that there's an upperlimit to steelrunning with you actually burning away.

I don't buy it as she did try to escape later.  

She was having a struggle later in the room with Wayne and she was riddled by bullets. 

If she was trying to talk to Wax she already done it before she went in there would be no reason to play with Wax as she could easily get caught.

I think people overestimate steelrunning. Even Vin could see steelrunning of an inquisitor happen and make a Koloss react to it(remember when Elend almost got spiked by Ruin's inquisitor yeah) and pretty sure Koloss should be slower than pewter allomancer. Which means that steelrunning isn't as fast as we assumed it is. 

You make a good point, a human wouldn't survive at supersonic speeds if they were not equipped correctly. But if a person is moving at ten times their usual speed (and that would include all their movements not just their legs) then their limbs would be moving so fast you likely would be unable to react fast enough. Someone doesn't simply have to be a blur for them to be moving faster than the human body can physically react. Atium doesn't enhance the body at all, only the mind, so a seer would still be too slow to react to the attacks. With pewter, maybe their reflexes would be improved enough to stop them, but only maybe.

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10 minutes ago, Mistborn Radiant said:

You make a good point, a human wouldn't survive at supersonic speeds if they were not equipped correctly. But if a person is moving at ten times their usual speed (and that would include all their movements not just their legs) then their limbs would be moving so fast you likely would be unable to react fast enough. Someone doesn't simply have to be a blur for them to be moving faster than the human body can physically react. Atium doesn't enhance the body at all, only the mind, so a seer would still be too slow to react to the attacks. With pewter, maybe their reflexes would be improved enough to stop them, but only maybe.

Steelrunning probably still gives some measure of modification to the steelrunner so that she can do steelrunning stuff(it might be impossible to use steelrunning without modifications ) without comically running into stuff or slipping or limbs/bones getting wrecked by the acceleration/sudden change of directions or something ridiculous.

But i think there's a limit to what they could do on how fast they could be(without burning or hurting themselves) and how much reaction improvement are given to them (pretty sure steelrunning doesn't slow down time in their perspective unlike from the fantasy series called Travelers Gate where there is the same speedboost ability except that it just doesn't speed up his speed but also everybody is slowed down so that he could do stuff normally under his perspective unhindered by the insane speed he has ).

I think you're just fast but you don't suddenly have a slowed down perception around you

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1 minute ago, goody153 said:

Steelrunning probably still gives some measure of modification to the steelrunner so that she can do steelrunning stuff(it might be impossible to use steelrunning without modifications ) without comically running into stuff or slipping or limbs/bones getting wrecked by the acceleration/sudden change of directions or something ridiculous.

But i think there's a limit to what they could do on how fast they could be and how much reaction improvement are given to them.

Perhaps, but no where else in feruchemy are there limits as to how much of an attribute you can tap, aside from how much you have stored of course. So perhaps there is a proportional amount of enhancement (i.e. not breaking under the forces and acceleration etc) provided to the amount of steel tapped?

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1 minute ago, Mistborn Radiant said:

Perhaps, but no where else in feruchemy are there limits as to how much of an attribute you can tap, aside from how much you have stored of course. So perhaps there is a proportional amount of enhancement (i.e. not breaking under the forces and acceleration etc) provided to the amount of steel tapped?

Probably not as if that was the case then using steelrunning is basically akin to having bellandium as everything in your perspective should be slowed down to match with his speed which doesn't sound right. And that's not even counting the resistance of the body to the hazards of insane acceleration which would probably mean the body is suddenly durable to resist the damage.

It sounds like steelrunner have pseudo-atium(faster reaction for the increased speed), pewter(durability) and bellandium(slowed down perspective so that you can see what is going on while on insane acceleration) in that case which doesn't sound right. It can't be proportional as it has too many implications.

I know that Travelers Gate series does this with Nye Essense but that doesn't sound like what happened so far with steelrunners as we've seen in Mistborn.

Wasn't there also a limit even to pewter feruchemy before your body couldn't handle the strength increase any longer ? I know weight feruchemy has.

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Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, the "riddled by bullets" later was when she ran out of storage. After taking out all of the guards, killing her "bodyguard" to hide the shapeshift... She played Wax the whole time. 

And steel does increase reaction time. 

Quote

Alteroden

With [Feruchemical] zinc, you get mental speed. How is that any different from [Feruchemical] steel, except without [physical] speed?

Brandon Sanderson

I think of the mental speed actually turning you into... Let's say you sped up your body, and you wanted to figure out some really complex equations.

Alteroden

So it lets you have intuitive leaps.

Brandon Sanderson

Right. It basically turns you into Ken Jennings. That's how I imagine it.

Kurkistan

So it's not like bullet time?

Brandon Sanderson

No... It'll bullet time a little bit, it certainly will, because you're thinking faster than everyone else, but it has applications beyond bullet timing. Bullet time is really--

Kurkistan

That’s steel’s thing?

Brandon Sanderson

That’s kind of steel's thing. They kind of overlap on that one, because the steel thing... But yeah. It's more like "I think fast, but my reaction speed is not sped up".

source

 

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12 minutes ago, goody153 said:

Probably not as if that was the case then using steelrunning is basically akin to having bellandium as everything in your perspective should be slowed down to match with his speed which doesn't sound right. And that's not even counting the resistance of the body to the hazards of insane acceleration which would probably mean the body is suddenly durable to resist the damage.

It sounds like steelrunner have pseudo-atium(faster reaction for the increased speed), pewter(durability) and bellandium(slowed down perspective so that you can see what is going on while on insane acceleration) in that case which doesn't sound right. It can't be proportional as it has too many implications.

I know that Travelers Gate series does this with Nye Essense but that doesn't sound like what happened so far with steelrunners as we've seen in Mistborn.

Wasn't there also a limit even to pewter feruchemy before your body couldn't handle the strength increase any longer ? I know weight feruchemy has.

Well yes, how much your body can handle is a limit, but I suppose one could ignore that. It isn't really a limit of what you can do, more what you'd want to do. So then there isn't a limit to what one can do, it just then may have negative side effects. But yes, either way there is still the issue with your body handling everything and honestly I'm not sure how to answer that. Brandon himself has said it's like bullet time and if you were going fast enough for that to be the case the forces acting on your body would be insane. Perhaps this is where Brandon's answer is 'magic'?

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A Seer doesn't have a chance. Honestly, the only thing I could see beating Steel would be a Gold Compounder, a Sparker, or a Slider. Gold because even though they wouldn't get in many hits, they would still outlast the Steelrunner. A Sparker because they can outthink the Steelrunner, and the Slider because as we saw at the end of Shadows of Self, Wax used a speed bubble to get in some hits. 

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If you are tapping steel so fast that you move as a blur, wouldn't your atium shadow also be a blur? Because then, the Seer wouldn't be able to even see you moving and you could take him down with a toothpick if you wanted. 

4 hours ago, goody153 said:

That was kinda a different case because none of the guests were expected a steelrunner rampaging through them and it was a tight room but it was different in their first confrontation with Wax as it was an expected conflict. She was running away straight for the governor but Wax was catching up and almost caught her even through steelrunning

You could say that bleeder had no plan of hurting wax but it's still the same that Wax actually managed to both hit her with a gun and catchup with her through steel. Bleeder definitely did not want to get caught as she did try so hard to escape as that would be game over for her.

Even as an expert Kandra she could sustain enough damage to be immobile(she was actually on the verge of it before escaping and losing Wax outside) 

But doesn't Wayne put up a speed bubble at that moment? Also, Wax can move around ridiculously fast with Steelpushing so I think that he could have caught up with Bleeder if they were both moving in a straight line. 

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F-Steel could reach supersonic speed. Marasi shown that when she broke people eardrums with a sonic boom near them.

But honestly there isn't even the need of such a speed.

Atium users make always or almost the right move. It's in the nature of the Fortune and their mind could process the huge amount of informations but they can't performe something their body can't performe.

Maybe the steelrunner can't one shot the seer as he would find some way to mitigate the damage, but the second or third hit would give him the victory.

Atium is a really cool power but too me in the community there is an overstimate of it .. because 95% of Atium users were godly murdering machines also without using the Atium.

 

Just notice how Seers died fighting Koloss in HoA.

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