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2014-03-31 - Guru Coyote - A Silence Of Voices (V)


Guru Coyote

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Hey all

 

What I'd like to know:

* does it work over all?

* what did you expect from the opening? And did the end relate to that expectation?

* what did you especially like?

 

I'm expecting to do some larger revisions on this once I get some feedback, so fine-grained edits aren't what I'm after right now. If you catch obvious mis-used words or tenses etc. do feel free to point them out.

 

Thanks for your feedback :)

-GC

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Interesting.  I was thrown off by Joan's observations in the first couple pages.  I started expecting fantasy and then realized it was taking place in present day.  It was obvious she was a foreigner in some part of the U.S.

 

It took me a while to realize what this was--until Hannibal starts to fight T.G.  After that I guessed it was a cage match to determine whether Joan of Arc or Genghis Khan would win in a fight.

 

Nothing really wrong with it in terms of writing, and it was paced well enough that it took me the appropriate amount of time to "get it."

 

I don't know if this will stand up as a short story by itself without the readers being familiar with the concept of a cage match, but if that's 

what this is for, then it serves the purpose.  I did like the sense of decoding what was really going on from a foreign POV to something familiar to us.
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If this is a short story, I think you'd be better served grounding the audience a little more in the world (and the 'why') earlier on. I wasn't sure if Joan knew what she was doing. She goes into the place not knowing if she has to pay, and has no money? Are we meant to know what's going on, or be confused?

I liked most of the dialogue and language. They did well conveying a sense of distance.

For nitpicks: the bouncer guy speaks with "warmth", but as if he's talking to a foolish child. That image doesn't evoke warmth to me.

Also there are a handful of compound sentences that might work better with semicolons or as separate statements, but that's all up to your discretion, of course.

Overall, while I understood what was going on, the lack of knowing Why is really what bugged me. What does Joan want, why can't she get it (or why is she at this place to get it), and what is this place like?

Edited by jagabond
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I’m a bit conflicted about this story, there were parts that worked and parts that didn’t. On the whole though the story didn’t work for me. The start was confusing and when I’d gotten through the confusion Joan was in a bar, doing nothing, until the very last scene where she joins the arena.

 

Disconnected start: Like Mandamon I had some trouble identifying what kind of story I was reading – Joan’s thoughts made me think fantasy and when I realized she was in fact in America I had to pause to let that sink in. It’s because of Joan’s observations, which, for her, make sense since apparently she’s thrown out of her time and into the future (and in a different land). But to the reader her lens of confusion only makes it confusing and I don´t believe that is what you set out to do.

 

Joan of Arc: Joan of Arc is bastardization of her name (Jeanne d'Arc)  that didn’t come into favour until after her trial. The story is of course written in English for an English audience, but for me it still felt a little weird that she referred to herself as Joan.

 

Aside from that though I did like Joan’s character. And while her confusion caused the disconnected start it does work in a few places. For instance, when she orders fries in the bar.

 

Money: I didn’t really buy into the part where Joan orders food and only then, when it’s too late, realizes that she has no money. She grew up poor, she’d know that food doesn’t come for free.

 

English: Apparently, though she speaks it in a broken fashion, Joan of Arc understands some modern English. It’s  hand-waved away in the first paragraph, but that doesn’t really cut it. At first, because the start confused me, I also missed that particular sentence. I was thinking that it was very unlikely that in her own time she knew more than a handful of English words so the fact that she understands it to such a degree was mindboggling. It wasn’t until the second read-through that I caught the sentence that addresses this.

 

The fact that she has trouble forming coherent sentences on the other hand was a nice touch and made her seem more real.

 

French: Though Joan is French she never uses the language except the one ‘oui’, not even in her thoughts. I’m not saying you should overdo it with the French, but a couple words here and there, maybe a sentence in her thoughts, would work in fleshing out her character.

 

Magic: How did Joan come to be there? Is she the real deal or not? As far as I understand the setting it’s the modern world. To me something as fantastical as a time displacement in the modern world needs a bit more explanation than ‘To her surprise, she understood the babble of the people around her’.

 

Purpose: What’s the purpose to this story? You’ve got Joan of Arc and Genghis Khan, either (1) time displaced, (2' reincarnations, (3) cosmic coincidence, ending up in a fight in an arena, but why? You know, other than the fact that you as the author wanted to write it?

 

There’s nothing there to indicate why Joan would want to do this. It’s not because of the money, she’d already received 200 dollars to do with as she pleased. So why? What is her motivation to do this?

 

She was also in that bar by coincidence, she didn’t set out to find it and therefore couldn’t know the fight was going on there.

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I found this story intriguing, but as I read, some issues arose.

 

I found it a little too convenient that Temujin turned up to save Joan so quickly after she realised she had no money, I was enjoying the tension of her situation. Also, I thought it was naive of her not to think of money, but I'm possibly being overly critical on that score.

 

I'm not keen on how the macho men reduced Joan to a quivering teenager by their mere presence. I appreciate there is a nice turning of the tables at the end, but I didn’t think her reaction set well with my imagined image of her. I felt her piety was at a pretty low ebb in places.

 

I thought the ending was nicely handled, very dramatic, and I'm glad you weren’t tempted to play out how Joan’s bout went – leave them wanting more! As Writing Excuses would say, surprising yet inevitable – well done.

 

Looking back on the piece now, and the comments, I agree with others about the why. I can accept it as an amusing diversion – a curiosity – and at that level, I can suspend my disbelief, but when I start to think about it, the why starts to bother me a bit. It’s not that I think every story has to have a message, but I think it needs a premise with some substance, a reason to exist – which I think is lacking here.

 

If the premise is ‘Who would win in a fight between Genghis Khan and Hannibal, then I don’t think the fight goes on long enough, is well enough researched, or has a serious enough tone. If the premise is ‘How tough was Joan of Arc?’ then we don’t get the answer.

 

This said, I think you might get away with it as a fluff piece, but only if the language is much slicker, and I think a fair bit of polishing would be needed for that.

 

Entertaining though, thank you!

 

---------------------------------------------------------

 

Page 1, paragraph 2 – ‘firry’ – furry?

 

Page 1, para 3 – ‘seize up’ – does this refer to frisking / searching? I'm not sure it’s clear if that’s the case. If not, I'm not sure what you’re getting at.

 

Page 1, p4 – ‘Your’ > you’re

 

Page 3, p1 – ‘he had a leader's and a warrior's spirit’ – sounds clumsy, like a word missing after leader’s – I think you need to pick one and go with that.

 

Page 3, p4 - $200, although I don’t like seeing numbers in stories, for me that’s technical writing – maybe it’s just a personal foible, but I would rather see ‘two hundred dollars’ – or ‘dollar’ to emphasise his pigeon English.

 

Page 3, p5 – "Only cowards leave themselves a place to retreat to." – Ooh, I don’t like the bar lady, she has an ignorant opinion there. I'm willing to bet she doesn’t have a family or anyone who depends on her. And then Joan agrees, minus points for Joan too.

 

Page 3, p10 – Asian.

 

Page 3, p11 – some of the dialogue is very unnatural. I realise it’s not your first language, so I feel like a heel for making the comment, but it doesn’t help for me to gloss over it, I think. For example, and please forgive my presumption, but...

 

"You know I wouldn't tell you if you don't already know. Rules are rules. But," she lowered her voice and shot Joan a sidelong glance, "anyone betting on you this night would have very high odds indeed. If, that is, I allow you to enter today."

 

Versus

 

"Rules aside, and I know I'm teaching my grandma*, but," she lowered her voice and shot Joan a sidelong glance, "your odds are sky high, if’n I let you enter at all."                              [* to suck eggs]

 

Page 4, p1 – I don’t see how Hannibal’s English would be so good compared to the others.

 

Page 4, p3 – Why would Joan of Arc not know what an elephant is? Joan was born in 1412 and died in 1431. Wiki indicates Silk Road trade reaching its height in the 12th century. In the 1260’s some Italian travelled to China. Jordanus, a French missionary, wrote of his travels in India in 1329. Also, Hannibal crossed the Alps in 218 BC, so I'm not convinced about Joan’s ignorance of elephants, unless she was an uneducated peasant of course, I'm certainly no expert.

 

Page 4, p8 – ‘Move body you men. Make room for Elephant to lay down’ – brilliant line, love it!

 

Page 4, p9 – ‘he must have been a formidable fighter, judging by his muscles and stature’ – Why? Just because he has muscles doesn’t mean he isn’t a clumsy clot or a lumbering oaf

 

Page 5, p2 – LOL, the great Genghis Khan kicking his opponent’s ankles is a comic image.

 

Page 5, p3 – ‘hovered over his opponent like a dark thundercloud’ – this sounds to me like Hannibal is taking a long pause. Why would he do that, giving his opponent an opening? Also, punching with both fists must surely reduce the power that a single blow would have, because of the inability to turn one’s shoulders into the blow. I'm no boxer, but I am a golfer, and I know that the power in a good drive comes from the rotation of the body, not the swing of the arms, which are only there to hold the club, so imagine a similar dynamic applies in boxing.

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Oh wow, more good points and suggestions!

 

As a note: I totally don't mind if anyone points out issues that might come from English being my second native tongue. We all can be clumsy in out words, and I want to KNOW if I am. So thanks for that (and the suggestion), Robinski!

 

Joan of Arc actually was a rather uneducated peasant girl... but I see the point she could have at least heard of elephants. The one thing she did not have a chance to know, and no one objected to that, are potatoes.

 

I'll be very much working on the whole setup for the story, my current plan is to have Joan (Jeanne) work as a kitchen maid for the Bar 'n' Grill. That will address the money issue nicely, and also put her in the right location for several days for Temujin to spot her.

 

Thanks everyone, once again, this has been most helpful. 

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