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July 7 2018_Oomph Part 4_4721 words(LVS)


shatteredsmooth

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Hi All,
 
With first drafts, I plow through without going back and reading what I wrote. With revision, I can be a little too obsessive for my own good, constantly going back and rewriting chapters, unable to move on until I am relatively happy. 
 
Sometimes this involves rewriting entire chapters and turning the ship's computer into an AI named Bacon.
 
So a bit has changed since you last read the first few chapters. The gray is the old text, which you don't have to read. The black, which starts after the first scene break in chapter 7, is where the submission starts. I should be marked with big red letters highlighted green. This section replaces the slow one where D goes to get fuel, hears an interrogation and changes xir mind. It has more action, but also sets up for something that happens much later. 
 
Short recap:
Di, half human, half whatever xir unknown father is, is on the run from the SE, the law enforcement arm of the Tri-System administration. Di and friends flee from earth to the moon where they pick up a ship, but get caught at the last minute, and Ronny, the mentor/adult helping them, gets severely injured and is in a coma. The ship's medbot has him stable, but it can't fully heal him either. Di's immediate goal is to get enough fuel to get out of the Tri-Systems and Galactic Alliance so xe can safely take Ronny to a more advanced medical facility. 
 
The larger foal is to get a powerful Oomph artifact to a rebellion forming in "wildspace"
 
For those who don't know, Oomph is the world's magic. Very few people can use it, and even less understand it. It's illegal in Di's corner of the galaxy and those who can use it are required to take drugs that suppress their ability to use it. 
 
Currently, Di, an Oomph user, is out of suppressant. 
 
Feedback: I don't have any specific questions this time. Whatever feedback you can give will be highly appreciative. 
 
I'm behind on reading your stuff, but I will read it hopefully sooner than later. 
 
-SC
 
Re: Content Warning
Language  and Violence are obvious for this, but I put S for sex even though there is no on page sex, because there is mention of prostitution and one of the character's experience with it. 
 
 
 
=
 
 
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This is definitely shaping up, and I'm really starting to enjoy the story. Looking forward to more! I like the inclusion of Bacon. they help to drop plot-specific information without things feeling info-dumpy.

There are still lots of typos, and I know this is the rough draft, but sometimes there were enough to make comprehension hard in sections.


Notes while reading:
pg 59: I read the first few paragraphs thinking "Al" was "AI" and was very confused when the "AI" said they couldn't fly the ship. Hopefully not a problem if I had read the previous changes.

pg 59: "black energy-absorbing vest"
--Like laser weapon proof? Or just very black?

pg 61: "The void that forms to my left indicates someone died, bleeds into the gloom and makes it a little heavy"
--This sentence is awkward.

pg 62: Good tension on the fight with the cockroach thing. Reminds me of Men in Black...

pg 64: hm...so more tension in this section, but ultimately, it's still just D. walking (through dangerous terrain), pausing because the fuel is not available, then walking back. Does this serve a plot or worldbuilding point? We know already that Oomph-users are persecuted. (EDIT: I see above you say it sets something up. Noted.)

pg 65: "Fake breast saving my head from slamming into his bony sternum"
--Ah, I didn't catch before that Z was going full drag queen, just that he liked wearing dresses, etc. Maybe some more description about the characters would help?

pg 70: "The closer to the city we get, the heavier the traffic in the sky lane."
--I'd like some more description in here, too. How close are they to the ground? What is the planet like? How many ships are there? etc...

pg 72: "one of them is wearing a patched up yellow coat."
--ok, so I'm hoping this connects back to D's outing earlier.

pg 73: "Usually, I prefer to appear wholly in between genders..."
--This is a cool paragraph, especially for someone like me who doesn't have as much experience with this. I like the description of how gender is hidden. This also starts to get into D's head, which has been lacking sometimes.

pg 74: "The medbot has done all it can"
--Is there more interaction with Bacon and the medbot in this version? (Now I'm wondering about AI's interactions when humans aren't around)

pg 76: "Maybe if we make it to wildspace, I won’t take suppressant."
--Good last line, and I'm glad to see D experience the difference between being suppressed and not.

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4 hours ago, Mandamon said:

Ah, I didn't catch before that Z was going full drag queen, just that he liked wearing dresses, etc. Maybe some more description about the characters would help?

This is why one of many, many reasons I need groups like this.  In my head it varies from scene to scene. Sometimes it's just dresses, sometimes its full-out drag. It was in the incoherent "first draft" I write during NaNo

4 hours ago, Mandamon said:

I see above you say it sets something up.

Yes, but if the reader just goes through and it thinks, ok, that was pointless, then I just need to scrap it or completely change the way that option falls through. Of course if it is too obvious I'm setting up for something, then there is no room for surprise at the end. 

 

4 hours ago, Mandamon said:

k, so I'm hoping this connects back to D's outing earlier.

 

Yup. Same being D talked to at the end of the other scene. Same one who delivered the artifact SE wants. 

 

5 hours ago, Mandamon said:

-Is there more interaction with Bacon and the medbot in this version? (Now I'm wondering about AI's interactions when humans aren't around)

The characters haven't figured it out yet, but the MedBot is more an extension of Bacon than a separate ai. As I get further into the book, I'm toying with idea of the MedBot separating from almost like a kid being born

 

5 hours ago, Mandamon said:

--Good last line, and I'm glad to see D experience the difference between being suppressed and not.

Yay! :-)

5 hours ago, Mandamon said:

--This is a cool paragraph, especially for someone like me who doesn't have as much experience with this. I like the description of how gender is hidden. This also starts to get into D's head, which has been lacking sometimes.

Glad this worked! I'm trying to make sure the reader gets to peek in D's head more often. 

Thank you!!

P.S. in sanserif font, AI (ai) looks exactly the same as Al (al), which is a problem with proper capitalization when there is an ai and an al. 

5 hours ago, Mandamon said:

I read the first few paragraphs thinking "Al" was "AI" and was very confused when the "AI" said they couldn't fly the ship. Hopefully not a problem if I had read the previous changes

If it continues to be a problem, I may switch to al's full name (Alinez) and only use the shorter version in dialouge

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5 hours ago, Mandamon said:

There are still lots of typos

Sorry. :-( 

Submitting this week was kind of a last minute decision. Rushing, writing late at night, and not taking my ADD med was a bad combination for my sentences. 

I'll to leave more time to proof read before I submit next time. 

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Wow, this is really rough. I had trouble parsing some of the sentences, just at a syntax level. ^^;

 

  I'm not sure what I can say here that would be worthwhile feedback. Things happen, but there is such a paucity of description I had trouble following the action.  For Z especially, I'm running almost completely off prior knowledge of his description, characterization and backstory. If I didn't have those prior iterations under my belt, I would have no clue what he looks like, or why he's doing what he's doing, or why he's being described so effeminately (and whether I should take this as good thing or a bad thing).

This is true for most of the characters in the story so far. Taking the text on its face leaves me confused and it's only when the minor details and explanations from previous submissions and feedback threads accrete in my memory that I start becoming interested. Yes, too much description or introspection can slow down a story, but too little gives readers nothing to hold on to or care about as names and actions whiz by them. 

 

The action is good, and moves along at a very swift, steady pace, but it lacks much of the connective tissue necessary to turn it into a full story. I feel like the characters are untethered from the background setting they're in, and whose direction I can't quite figure out, rather than an integrated story with a destination it's heading towards.  Don't get me wrong, I like the characters, they're unique and I'm totally there for well-loved tropes seen through a queer lens. The setting is squarely in genre tropes I enjoy and sometimes tropes played straight can be comforting. It's just... missing the inbetween cells to turn it from a set of iterative pictures into a smooth animation, y'know?

 I haven't spent the time with D to care enough to feel anything about the father, missing or otherwise; I barely know R at all, so his sacrifice and mission don't really matter to me; the setting doesn't feel deep enough for the existence of a rebellion to intrigue me; my concept of oomph and its place in the world isn't clear enough for me to wonder about the existence of the artifact or why it's so important to deliver in person (since it got to D well enough, why can't it just continue on that way? why did it stop with mom? is there no intergalactic postal service? )...

 

The gas trip falls right into this. I don't really see the point of it, even in its expanded form. Because i'm so disconnected from everything else, it's not landing as either portentous or as part of a try-fail cycle. They're in a spaceship in the far future, so I'm having some trouble believing that the AI didn't pick up on the fire from say, police chatter, or traffic patterns, or news feeds, or heat signatures or anything else. Or why D had to go in person to the warehouse -- are there no secure/pirated communication devices in the underworld? How was D going to get the gas back to the ship? The attack i couldn't quite figure out why it was there. I feel like the conversation at the fire could just as easily happen elsewhere, like the underground party, where I feel like it would make more sense. I am much more interested in the underground party than I ever was about a random warehouse fire. 

 

D wondering at the end if being on suppressant really was better than being off it is a good bit of character development. I want to read much more like that, and if a few random cockroach attacks have to get cut to fit more stuff like that into it, I think it'd work out in the end.  :) 

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2 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

Wow, this is really rough. I had trouble parsing some of the sentences, just at a syntax level. ^^;

Sorry. :-( 

I wasn't going to submit this week, but then decided to at the last minute. It seems made the wrong decision. 

2 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

but it lacks much of the connective tissue necessary to turn it into a full story

I'm almost wondering if I should just shelve this for now. I keep going back to the begining, and each time, I get a little further through my revisions, but no matter what, I end up with the same problem.

This is my fifth novel manuscript. I've had trouble showing emotions before, but never have I so drastically failed to develop characters and connect them to the setting. My first few books started off all very developed character, setting, and world (or so I've been told) with very little plot in sight.

Maybe there is something fundamentally wrong with how I am approaching this book, or maybe my head just isn't in it.

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3 hours ago, shatteredsmooth said:

but no matter what, I end up with the same problem

I think it has good bones, but you're the only one who can say for sure whether it's time to shelve the story entirely. :( It might be time to try some different things to mix it up, though. Have you thought about telling the story from another POV, like A or Z or R or heck, even the spaceship now that it has an AI? Maybe experiment writing a chapter or two from a couple different characters to see if one of those works better. Changing the narrative voice can also change how the story is told, so maybe think about changing from first person to third person, or from limited to omniscient? Just to see what happens? Sorry to be such a downer!  >_>;; 

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1 hour ago, industrialistDragon said:

Sorry to be such a downer!  >_>;; 

It's not you! It's the same feedback over and over from a lot of different people.

The exercises are a good idea, even if I don't include them. With my better projects, I did stuff like that and wrote multiple independent short stories from the same world.  

I could also try going back to 3rd past. Over a year ago, I wrote the first three or four chapters in third person past for a class, and got a lot of positive feedback. Then I switched to first and finished a draft in NaNoWriMo. I was in the process of sending ms #4 out to beta readers, and was running to problems because it was 3rd person with alternating POV's and the more prominent of the two used they/them. People weren't overtly mean, but I got a lot of, "Oh, when I read the first sentence, I thought it was a typo. Maybe you should switch to first person." or "Why do you have to have them be non-binary? After all, the story isn't about the character being non-binary, and there aren't issues related to it." Basically, I switched to first person, and used xe for Al because I didn't want to deal with the "But they can't be singular" bs again. 

Either way, something major isn't working with my approach to this. If changing from xe to they and present 1st to past 3rd helps, then it will be worth it. 

2 hours ago, industrialistDragon said:

I think it has good bones

True. And I think I'm almost to a part that has more meat, but we'll see. I have't read that part in a while...

I'm going to have to take a break soon either way, because this week I'll be working edits for a book that is getting published. 

 

Thank you for reading and for being honest. I'm sorry my response is such a book. 

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Right, in light of the context, I am NOT going to make any grammar comments, I promise :) 

Chapter 7 (part)

"but that only works..." - LOL.

I can't remember the cause of the argument, but it's only WRS, I'm sure.

I don't remember who/what Bacon is, but that is a hilarious name for an A.I./computer. thumbs-up.jpg.f6aee8c747186c3295a09c89a327a886.jpg

Who laid the clothes out? It sounds like the butler did it.

Confused about the pockets. If the pockets have built-in holsters, it sounds like they aren't pockets, but are holsters, because how can you put anything else in them, surely the gun wouldn't fit.

I like the idea of the putty. Clever and deceptively complex future tech, and no need to offer any explanation at all of how it works; I just believe. Nice!

I don't think you need a section break. All you need to do is say, 'I left the ship and trudge alone in the...' This is not the first of your section breaks that I though were unnecessary. I think it's far preferable to not have them if possible, as they are quite disorienting. I think they only deserve to be there if there is a meaningful time gap (which there isn't here), or changing POV / location. I know you are changing location here, but not sufficiently significantly, imho.

Not sure about 'over ambitious gravity', but I love the blanket phrase.

I thought it was odd that this was the same creature fighting another further back, it sort of reduces the threat if this thing is just jumping everyone that walks by. I thinks it's way more threatening if it has just appeared, and was waiting for just the right person; maybe evening lying in wait just for Di.

I like the means of defeating the creature, and the 'boy' line, but the creature's line was pretty boring. Also, I thought Di dismissed the encounter too quickly, without any consideration or the whys and wherefores, like it never even happened.

I don't buy that Di can run, after hearing about being too tired to talk out loud. Also, I don't understand the last line about knives and blasters. Also, also, no character reaction.

Yes, ending is better, but I think the last line is a bit wordy. For maximum punch, I think it scans better if it is a short as possible; like "Uniform will be provided" which lands the idea in a short, sharp, punch.

Chapter 8

The bit about the name of the ship felt like filler to me. I want to follow the plot now that they have a plan, so I skimmed that bit.

Why are they trying to catch up to the FB600? Also, to do that, surely they would need to exceed the speed limit if they have slowed down? Confused.

Getting into the 'illegal' port is way too easy. I got no sense that Di was passing any test in discussion with the controller, or that there was any hidden agenda, password, hidden code or anything. To me, that conversation would just direct them to the legit part of the yard. No scanning, no sensor sweep, hard questions or vetting process.

Is the patched up yellow coat significant? It's an odd line to end the section on.

I've forgotten that the stakes are, this feels like a long detour just to get fuel. I feel like I need a reminder that they are supposed to be rebelling about the galactic alliance, or something? What is the goal again? Is it just to be free of capture; to find Di's father; or is there more to it?

B's line about DNA matching seems unnecessarily complicated. An AI's language would, I imagine, be very clear and sparing. The bottom line is that only those three will be allowed aboard.

If the noise around Di is suppressed, I wouldn't use the word 'din', or state that it's not a din anymore, gone from din to ????, as din is loud, I think.

I like the idea at the end of the chapter, about not taking sup, but the expression of it is a bit simplistic, I thought, a bit mechanical.

Summary

There's good colour and nice detail, but I've forgotten why they're doing what they're doing, and all this just to get fuel, it doesn't feel important enough to me. I don't have enough to care about. I don't really feel any jeopardy or character investment in this part of the story. I like the diversion of the story, the pace, colourful details, but I need it to mean something, and I need always to have the end game in sight; the big picture and the stakes.

I hope this is useful. Sorry it's so late.

<R>

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On 10/08/2018 at 7:30 PM, shatteredsmooth said:

Maybe there is something fundamentally wrong with how I am approaching this book, or maybe my head just isn't in it.

On 10/08/2018 at 7:30 PM, shatteredsmooth said:

I'm almost wondering if I should just shelve this for now. I keep going back to the begining, and each time, I get a little further through my revisions, but no matter what, I end up with the same problem.

I'm tempted to say such on to the end, then you'll know what the plot is, and you can pick up the characters on the second pass. If you've got other things being published though, maybe you don't have time for that. I think you have interesting character bones, as has been said by others. I know I can like them. I almost think you could literally go back through the story and add one or two lines on every page like "The thought of it made my blood boil." "I banged the table in frustration." "My words caught in my throat as I felt Al's pain welling up." Whatever, just a line of emotion on each page to give the reader something to hold onto.

This said, I think there is a plot issue too, as I've mentioned, because the stakes are unclear, or not sufficiently memorable or reinforced regularly. E.g. R could be at death's door and a ticking clock to find him 'unofficia' medical aid; there could be a known officer of the SE pursuing them, another time factor pushing them to act, get clear and stay ahead of the pursuit until they get across the state line out of SE's area of operation.

Don't give up. I want this to be better, and I want to read more :) 

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15 hours ago, Robinski said:

I'm tempted to say such on to the end, then you'll know what the plot is, and you can pick up the characters on the second pass. If you've got other things being published though, maybe you don't have time for that.

I have time, I just may need to break for a week or two to get through my edits...if my publisher ever sends them. 

I'm not good at shelving things, so more than likely, I will see it through. I'm quite convinced this is the worst thing I've ever written...as an adult. That just means it will need a couple extra rounds of revision. 

 

Thanks! 

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6 hours ago, shatteredsmooth said:

I'm not good at shelving things, so more than likely, I will see it through. I'm quite convinced this is the worst thing I've ever written...as an adult. That just means it will need a couple extra rounds of revision. 

That's the spirit!

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Yes, I'm behind again. But not as behind as I used to be!

Overall

Generally, this was just fine. Pacing moved well and there were good narrative arcs. I'm still just not connecting, really, with the characters or their goals. This could be partly WRS, but I think is more that the issues I had with character connection and motivation from the first few chapters never got really addressed (for me), and that's traveling through to these later chapters. 

On 8/10/2018 at 8:42 AM, industrialistDragon said:

Wow, this is really rough. I had trouble parsing some of the sentences, just at a syntax level.

Same. A quick verbal pass would help catch those, if you had the time. Although reading to yourself, outloud, gets you weird looks in coffee shops. I am certainly not speaking from experience.

On 8/10/2018 at 8:42 AM, industrialistDragon said:

it's only when the minor details and explanations from previous submissions and feedback threads accrete in my memory that I start becoming interested. Yes, too much description or introspection can slow down a story, but too little gives readers nothing to hold on to or care about as names and actions whiz by them. 

 

This is also exactly my issue. I don't connect unless I get a memory job, but then the character slips away again almost as quickly as they came.

On 8/10/2018 at 8:42 AM, industrialistDragon said:

The gas trip falls right into this. I don't really see the point of it, even in its expanded form.

Same. I don't know where the story is going, so it's hard to be invested in side adventures that do not appear to advance the narrative.

On 8/10/2018 at 5:39 PM, shatteredsmooth said:

Over a year ago, I wrote the first three or four chapters in third person

With bigger space operas like this, I think third person is a great way to go. It gives you a lot more opportunity for worldbuilding, at least in my opinion

On 8/13/2018 at 0:07 AM, Robinski said:

I've forgotten that the stakes are, this feels like a long detour just to get fuel. I feel like I need a reminder that they are supposed to be rebelling about the galactic alliance, or something? What is the goal again? Is it just to be free of capture; to find Di's father; or is there more to it?

#iagreewithrobinski

 

In terms of shelving...I'd do the alternate POV or move it into third with multiple POVs, first. It has the makings of a reasonable space opera. I think first person present, with one POV, is really really limiting what you can do with it, though.

 

As I go

page 59: is it actually a room for a Spartan, or called the Spartan room, or is it just spartanly decorated? Capitalization potential misuse here

- page 61: you've got a capitalized 'c' in croon that should be lowercase

- page 61: chitin on stone, not of stone

- page 62: how can our protag slither away? I thought the beetle thing had tentacles around a neck or something? Blocking is unclear

- page 64: young tired?

- page 64: Al has a 'her' pronoun at the end of the page which I assume is a typo?

- page 65: even being called 'ladies' in jest could be really detrimental to a person. I'm surprised there isn't more emotional reaction to that

- I do enjoy that ship name

- page 73: yeah okay so if they actually make binders like this, fess up. I want one.

but doesn’t suffocate me like cheap fabric ones I used to wear OMG relate to this so much

 

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25 minutes ago, kais said:

In terms of shelving...I'd do the alternate POV or move it into third with multiple POVs, first. It has the makings of a reasonable space opera. I think first person present, with one POV, is really really limiting what you can do with it, though.

Yeah. I'm taking a few weeks away from this, but I think I am going to add more POV's. My edit delays with my NineStar are making it hard to focus on anything writing related, but I think that is finally resolved. I think. Hopefully in  another week or two, I can get back to this and go over to a multi-pov third person. I have ideas about who and why to add them. A SE pov would add a lot, and there is a character they meet up with later that has an interesting story that will eventually link up with Di's in a potentially romantic way (and that gets interesting because Di hates being touched). 

And when I go to 3rd person, Di and Al might end up they/them instead of xe/xir. Conceptually, I think neo-pronouns work good for space opera, but they/them just feels more natural and comfortable for me to write. This will need more thought. 

36 minutes ago, kais said:

- page 64: Al has a 'her' pronoun at the end of the page which I assume is a typo?

Yeah, Al was still enby but using "she/her" in an early draft.

 

29 minutes ago, kais said:

- page 73: yeah okay so if they actually make binders like this, fess up. I want one.

 Binders have to get better in the future, right? 

 

Thanks for the comments! 

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