379 posts in this topic

(Ah yes, the DA. I'm not on the shard very much, and had forgotten about that particular brand of crazy)

"I say let them come. The Terris are strong and can whether many things, and have for years. A few new Spiked aren't going to change anything." *to himself* "They already tried." He smiles and waves at the old lady walking past.

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Tarin smiled at the scowling woman. Offended by everything, but easily understood. What people didn't know about Tarin was that she had pretty good senses, and she picked up Irion's little aside to himself. She wondered about it for a moment, then shrugged. "Do you fear death?"

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At this, Irion went quiet (something that very rarely occurs) "I don't fear death, per se," he said, after a pause, "but I fear leaving things ... unfinished." He looked around, suddenly seeming slightly less sure of himself. "Well, I, um" he looks around for a second before seeing the rug merchant "I just remembered, I need a new rug. See you around!" He runs off before anyone notices the moment of insecurity.

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Tarin stared after Irion, smiling faintly. Insecurity, weakness. So rare in that person, but her words had brought it out. Still smiling, she walked away.

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Well, that was fun; but until Valywin posts, not much RP can be done, and I'm signing off soon. So, here's my bit of practical village thought for the day: Based on the way the rightup phrased that last line, I'm wondering if there isn't a secret Count Olaf Role that we don't know about. Just a thought.

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Maybe. What special role might a Count Olaf have?

RP

Itiah VI saw as a man ran away from a lady, sprinting towards the rug merchant. Curious, he followed after the lady.

"What'd you do to scare him off?" He joked. "You're not secretly spiked, are you." He paused, hoping he hadn't offended the lady, but the question remained.

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Alright, game mechanic thoughts (yeah, I know. 'Who are you and what have you done with Rand!' :P).

The general mechanics of feruchemists means that its possible to figure out who can hold which powers relatively easily. This is very useful (I'll touch on this more when talking about copper), but its useful for both village and elims. I'd suggest we keep speculation as to someone's role out of the main thread unless it's part of your rationale for accusing someone.

There's also the problem that many powers mess with someone's vote. We should keep this in mind when lynching someone, and we should work to make sure that the main candidate (if there is one) has a significant lead, as any number of votes could scatter all over the place.

Iron: Iron is one of the vote manipulation powers, but it's one that works by filling it. It has no other fill conditions, so someone could decide to try and fill it at the last moment to remove a vote. Tapping it is a protection against vote manipulation, which might be useful later on if the elims prove to have vote manipulation.

Steel: Since a maximum of two PM's can be created each cycle, the ferring can contribute significantly to the village's ability to converse in private. I don't have much else to say about this one.

Tin: You've got a rolescan and an alignment scan. In your position I'd start out by saving up for performing an alignment scan, but as the game progresses it might be possible to figure out the kind of roles some elims have, so the single charge scan becomes more efficient in that case. You should also try to find a PM partner ASAP, just so you can get around the limitation of having to choose between filling or using tin.

Pewter: pewter is a tricky case. Like tin, it can't both fill up the metalmind and use a charge in the same cycle, but it has a rather powerful effect. Given the relatively small size of this game, I think going for 4 charges is a trap unless you started with at least 2 already. This game probably won't last too long, and you'll probably get more mileage out of single-cycle protects. I'd start out with filling, and use your charges towards the end of the game, where the odds should be more in your favor.

Zinc: More vote manipulation. Their 3-charge in particular is rather powerful, as it can turn a 3-vote lead into a tie. Like pewter, I recommend storing up in the early game so that you've got this when it counts. Just remember that as long as you're storing, your vote won't got through, so keep that in mind if you're trying to get someone lynched.

Brass: Personal protection from tin-scans isn't that useful for a villager, but protecting someone else might be. I don't recommend using this power just because you can, however. Sure, you might stop an elim from figuring out an important role, but you might also stop a tin-ferring from confirming someones alignment. Use this one with caution and thought.

Bronze: Bronze is interesting. It could be used to try and brute-force the general night-kill, or any other restrcited action the user might want to take You can't take a night action while you're filling though, so you only come out just ahead (you exchange 4 night actions for 5 if you start with a charge of 0).

Copper: I honestly believe this is the most useful power for the village. If you can get the 5-charge ability of, I'ts my opinion you should immediately share your results with the thread. It would allow for a decent amount of villagers to be cleared, while the elims would have a lot more trouble hiding, as using their powers marks them as suspect.

general action

Kill: only one of these can happen each turn. I'd caution everyone to not use this one unless they've got a good idea about the target, but there's no way the elims won't be putting in at least one of these in, so ideally we'd have at least a couple of villagers using this one to balance any elim attempts to brute force it out.

Roleblock: Pretty much the same as the kill. The village should use this, or the elims probably will, but it should be used with caution.

Double fill: It is my personal recommendation that everyone who isn't filling copper keeps their hands off of this one until we've got a copper 5-charge action through That'd make it easier for the elims to get double-fill actions through, but I'd expect them to focus on the kill and roleblock to start with. Getting that copper scan through by D3/4 would really be that valuable in my opinion.

Protect: This one's very useful, especially given how many of these actions we get. If you don't have something else to do with your night action, i'd recommend using this one on someone you trust.

 

So tl;dr: Copper is cool, and I believe the village should help those with copper get their 5-charge ability off ASAP by not using the double fill action if they aren't going to fill copper.

Edited by randuir
grammar
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24 minutes ago, randuir said:

Copper is cool, and I believe the village should help those with copper get their 5-charge ability off ASAP by not using the double fill action if they aren't going to fill copper.

While I agree that's probably a good option, I also feel like that could be very bad in the case elims have say, a pewtermind. It would give them better chance at double-filling their strength, giving them more lives.

In general, I think we should be cautious, yet determined when it comes to the night actions. Enough of village should put in actions (balanced hopefully) in an attempt to keep the eliminators from controlling them.

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I considered the case of an elim pewterarm, but unless we're dealing with a very extreme situation, burning them down could be done quickly, and if necessary they could be ignored until they're the last elim left, allowing the village to keep him roleblocked while hitting them with two kills a cycle.

I agree that people should of course use their best judgement about what actions they should take.

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Agreed. The thing with kill actions, though, is this. While we may have enough kill actions to block out the elims, who's to say we don't kill one of our own? In fact, this may very well be a stragey for the elims to use, double-filling on their metalminds and letting the villagers kill themselves because they think they're blocking the elims.

On other notes, I agree with a majority of what Rand's said.

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The advantage of villagers using the extra kill instead of the elims is that the villagers would use it to take down suspicious targets, while the elims would try to limit information gained by the village or kill players they perceive as a threat. Even if the generic kill ends up only hitting villagers throughout the entire game, it'd still make a big difference if the villagers are calling the shots, or the elims are.

Also, I just realized, stocking up on pewter the way Elandera described isn't actually possible. Storing pewter robs you of your night action, so you'd basically exchange storing two charges of pewter over two cycles into maybe storing two charges of pewter over 2 cycles.

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5 minutes ago, randuir said:

Also, I just realized, stocking up on pewter the way Elandera described isn't actually possible. Storing pewter robs you of your night action, so you'd basically exchange storing two charges of pewter over two cycles into maybe storing two charges of pewter over 2 cycles.

Not exactly. It would be a risk (and probably unlikely), but if it worked out right then the pewtermind could be full to four charges in two cycles rather than four cycles. They just wouldn't fill at all during the day.

Edited by Elandera
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Yeah, it seems the rules are designed to not let said pewter ferring take advantage of the doublefill. The act of solely doublefilling seems interesting in the way Elandera puts it, but I'd think that's too risky, just because of the sheer number of people who'll ignore Rand's instructions and want to doublefill up anyway.

But on the topic of what roles the elims may have. If we're going to lynch someone, we'd better make it a lynch mountain. There are too many factors of vote-manip, and it's my belief that the elims may have one or two of these vote manip powers, most notably Iron and Zinc. Iron for the fact that it's a passive 'one vote taken off' power even when you're filling, and Zinc because of reasons Rand has mentioned, in a game with presumably less eliminators than villagers, it makes sense to have a good sense of vote manipulation.

If the team is a three-man-group, then I'd say the elims would have a Feruchemist, for good measure, and if the elim team is a four-or-more man group, I'd think they'd have a Bronze Ferring and a Brass one, mostly because they seemed designed for elims, as well as villagers, expcept in the case of Brass, which, as said before, doesn't have much of a village use.

Edited by I think I am here.
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@Elandera, the double fill action still requires you to fill normally the next day. So a pewter arm taking the double fill action during a night would still be unable to take an action the next night if he wants to actually benefit.

ITIAH, I agree that Brass (and to a lesser degree Bronze) is more useful for an elim team, but there's also an ostensibly village group with a Doc called the Synod (though the rules suggest that there might be one or more elims among them), so there might be some Brass among them as well.

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Hello all! Sorry for checking in so late. 

This is probably my last SE game, so I hope to have fun! :D 

Now then! The rules seem simple enough. Quick note that I don't think it's a good idea to lynch people based on what roles they may have unless, of course, somebody claims to have used the copper action and tells us the elim role distribution. That hasn't always worked out well in the past. However, it may do some good to keep track of each players' role by observation. Though I don't personally think these observations should be outright announced to the thread without a solid reason, as that may possibly aid the elims. 

Other than that...oh right. The Synod. This is interesting. Elims and villagers together in one doc completely anonymous. Sounds extremely fun :D.  Though what does it not being a "safe role" mean exactly? Due to how their kill works, I'm guessing the Synod isn't mostly comprised of elims as that'd be an unfair advantage for them. Though it does seem plausible that they'd have at least one elim in the doc. It's basically like a second lynch. A second secret lynch. :ph34r:

I think that's all I gotta say for now

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About the Synod, I do think that there’d be at least one elim in secret, to throw the others off, but none more than that. The purpose of the Synod is kind of a village team doc, sort of like the EIB last SE game.

Also, this means if we have suspicions a group of people are talking in docs, we’ll have to be careful we get the elims and not the Synod.

I guess if we do accuse the elims that they’re doc-talking and they claim that they’re Synod, the real Synod will know something’s up and kill them. If we accidentally accuse the Synod, and they claim Synod, nothing happens, so that clears them.

Winwin.

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ITIAH, just so I understand correctly, you're saying that it would be safe for the Synod to claim if one of their members got accused of talking in a doc (and therefore it would be desirable for them to claim when threatened)?

Edited by randuir
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1 hour ago, I think I am here. said:

About the Synod, I do think that there’d be at least one elim in secret, to throw the others off, but none more than that. The purpose of the Synod is kind of a village team doc, sort of like the EIB last SE game.

Also, this means if we have suspicions a group of people are talking in docs, we’ll have to be careful we get the elims and not the Synod.

I guess if we do accuse the elims that they’re doc-talking and they claim that they’re Synod, the real Synod will know something’s up and kill them. If we accidentally accuse the Synod, and they claim Synod, nothing happens, so that clears them.

Winwin.

 

3 minutes ago, randuir said:

ITIAH, just so I understand correctly, you're saying that it would be safe for the Synod to claim if one of their members got accused of talking in a doc (and therefore it would be desirable for them to claim when threatened)?

Except the Synod members don't know each other's identities like the elims do

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7 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

 

Except the Synod members don't know each other's identities like the elims do

Stick, why is this your last SE game?!

im just checking in to say hi, I’ll say more once I get home from work. I have thrown around the idea of making it my sole goal to make Alv’s character break character, but depends on how much time I have to devote to breaking the breaker of minds :P

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6 minutes ago, Steeldancer said:

Stick, why is this your last SE game?!

I'm afraid I won't have the time anymore. Nor the dedication ;_;

Also I forgot to talk about this in my first post, but the generic kill is kinda worrying. At the moment, the elims would almost certainly try to use that kill to their advantage because the village would hesitate to put in a kill order this early in the game. And even if we do put some in, the targets are more likely to be villagers than not, given the lack of intel we have right now. I don't think there's a way around this, though we may be able to present the elims with an IKYK situation. I don't think they'll use that generic kill and waste an action this cycle if they know that one of us is, as we'd likely target a villager anyway. However they can't be sure whether we're using it or not. Guess we should keep it that way?

Please feel free to point out if I'm misinterpreting the rules there. I feel like I am? I dunno

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A quick OOC moment: those of you with special roles who are planning to RP: do you intend to RP your filling and what not, or keep your role hidden to stay safe?

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Remart thumped-stepped through the Terris village. He didn’t have to be as cautious about the appearance of being a Feruchemist as most, as his metal leg was a good cover for his abilities. Having a  metalmind inside that no Inquisitor could detect was just a bonus.

He’d found the secret years ago. Whatever this mystery metal was, he didn’t figure it was worth killing for, considering all he could do was not be fat when he chose, but he knew the Steel Ministry would kill him just for having the ability, minor as it was, so he’d had the leg made of a useless alloy just in case, sure to throw off any prying metal senses. They could test it all they wanted, and they wouldn’t find any metalminds on him.

Who knew a simple layer of aluminum around the core of his leg would be so useful?

——————

Just checking in with some RP, don’t know how involved I’ll be in the next 24 hours or so, but I’m around.

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"Well um, hmm... well, yeah, obviously the kill is a big deal, you know. I mean, obviously, the Spiked aren't going to sit around. I mean, they'll probably kill one of us each night, so, like, our numbers will go down fast. But, um, if we kill, y'know, at night, then, well, our numbers keep going down. And if the Spiked take that... Well, so we should take it. Yeah, but I mean, not we alone, but um we together, and um... This is... What I mean is, um, we have like a night lynch. Anyone who, um, votes, puts in an action for killing the, y'know, person they want dead. And then, well, we know who's doing what. And if you don't, um, vote, you can do whatever. So, yeah, that way the bad guys won't take it. Ya know?"

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Ok, I'm home from work. I don't have any suspicions as of yet, but that's not surprising given that it is the beginning of day one. I agree with the thoughts Stick provided on the generic kill. We won't be able to tell who used the kill unless by some stroke of luck the kill hits an elim, not a villager. But the elims would be guaranteed to put it in on a villager, and we are likely to accidentally put it in on a villager. But not putting in anything for that leaves us very vulnerable to the kill being used by the elims, creating the above IKYK. Other than that, I don't really have any thoughts as of yet. I might RP later if I come up with anything creative for my squid statue. 
Oh, and be careful with role claims. Trust no one. Ect ect ect. 

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Talk, talk, talk.  That's all that was happening and it was driving Izzy insane.  Talking was not going to unearth the Spiked.  Only action!  And so action needed to be taken.  Izzy stalked over to the Kandra that was plain for all to see.

"You there. HanTor is it?  You claim to be a Kandra and that means you work for the supposed Lord Ruler!  Why shouldn't we just kill you now?"

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