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1 minute ago, Quantus said:

I know this is not helpful to today's conversation, but my honest interpretation of that is him saying it would still function as a metal capable of acting as a hemalurgic Spike like any other, but that use would be a crazy waste of the Lerasium, which implies to me that it has no additional/unique benefit over mundane metals. 

Hmm, We know a Trellium spike prevents Ruin's ability to monitor or speak to the target, which I think is also the only actual effect common to all spikes.

But then, there is also the Red Haze effect that sure seems to be Trell, and per WOB there are forces actively trying to limit and contain Sazed, which I dont think Cultivation would have any motive to be doing. 

  1. That's pretty close to my own theory. I interpreted that as meaning that a Lerasium spike would be really good at stealing Allomantic powers, but why on earth would you put that spike in and damage your soul like a dingus when you could just eat it and become a super-Mistborn? Total waste of metal.
  2. I assumed that was a way of saying that godmetals, being "all on the same frequency," would cause some sort of interference that affected Harmony's ability. But two trellium spikes seem to cancel out that effect, which... I dunno. No idea about the red haze either.
  3. Well, Sazed is a cool guy, but he is still technically the single most powerful entity in the Cosmere by raw power. Keeping him busy in his own little corner away form everything else would seem to be in the interests of pretty much any Shard.
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1 minute ago, Unlicensed Hemalurgist said:

Well, Sazed is a cool guy, but he is still technically the single most powerful entity in the Cosmere by raw power. Keeping him busy in his own little corner away form everything else would seem to be in the interests of pretty much any Shard.

Only to shards that already view each other as rivals and/or threats to each other, which I dont expect to be a universally held view.   

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7 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I know this is not helpful to today's conversation, but my honest interpretation of that is him saying it would still function as a metal capable of acting as a hemalurgic Spike like any other, but that use would be a crazy waste of the Lerasium, which implies to me that it has no additional/unique benefit over mundane metals. 

Hmm, We know a Trellium spike prevents Ruin's ability to monitor or speak to the target, which I think is also the only actual effect common to all spikes.

But then, there is also the Red Haze effect that sure seems to be Trell, and per WOB there are forces actively trying to limit and contain Sazed, which I dont think Cultivation would have any motive to be doing. 

I don't think it's that the spike is made of trellium that prevents that ability. I think because she only has one spike, it's not enough for Sazed to take control of her. And he can still talk to her, even with one spike, she just doesn't listen.

 

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It appears so. Somehow, Bleeder has figured out how to hide from me. At times I can spot her, but only when she takes direct and obvious action.

Unfortunately, she has removed one of her Blessings—one of the two spikes that kandra must keep inside themselves to retain their cognition. I would forcibly control her if I could, but one spike does not pierce the soul sufficiently for me to get in.

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But something is wrong beyond that. She can hide from me, and while I can speak to her, she doesn’t have to listen—and I can’t keep track of where she is.

 

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5 minutes ago, Quantus said:

Only to shards that already view each other as rivals and/or threats to each other, which I dont expect to be a universally held view.   

If there's even a 1% chance that an entity of Harmony's power-level could pose a threat to the other Shards, I think that's something they would plan for. Especially someone as forward-thinking as Cultivation. Harmony as a weed that will take over the garden.

 

Edited by Unlicensed Hemalurgist
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6 minutes ago, Unlicensed Hemalurgist said:

If there's even a 1% chance that HArmony could pose a threat to the other Shards, I think that's something they would plan for. Especially someone as forward-thinking as Cultivation.

 

Do you want to pick an unnecessary fight with Superman?  Because that's how you pick an unnecessary fight with Superman.  ;)

 

Joking aside, Im not sure that's accurate for her.  She's forward thinking for sure, but also a touch hands-off in the sense that she seems to sort of roll the dice on a gambit and then sit back and see how the dice fall.  Both Dalinar and Mr T are examples of this to me.  She just doesnt seem that...Proactive? Micromanaging?

Other hexadieties certainly, Ambition especially, but Cultivation is all about a light touch and the giant blanket over the whole planet seems a little too brute force an approach (at least from my limited audience POV)

10 minutes ago, RShara said:

I don't think it's that the spike is made of trellium that prevents that ability. I think because she only has one spike, it's not enough for Sazed to take control of her. And he can still talk to her, even with one spike, she just doesn't listen.

 

 

Fair point that he can still talk to her, I though I remembered it making her entirely blank from him.  But I still sort of see them as the same thing: Hemalurgy works everywhere, regardless of the mundane metal's origin, so the ONLY spike that does not grant Ruin/Harmony all the normal access/oversight is a spike made from a Rival Shard's godmetal, if not Trellium, specifically (that we know).

 

 

Edited by Quantus
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sazed had knowledge of Trell in his Coppermind before Ascending which would imply that Trell, whomever that may be, already had at least some limited presence on Scadrial prior to Era 1 (though it is not impossible that knowledge was brought by travelers through one of the Perpendicularities).  I've caught a lot of talk about how Era 2 happens around the same time as SA, and we know that Era 1 was ~300 years before Era 2, and I don't believe Cultivation had been on any Planet but Roshar for thousands of years prior to SA.

If that all stands up, I don't think Cultivation and Trell can be the same entities.

Edited by StarrFall
Note on immigration through perpendicularity
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Just wanna put this here. If a platypus could store his special senses in a tinmind (given that it somehow got Feruchemy) then I think that it would be possible to steal animal attributes with Hemalurgy without having to involve other godmetals and hacks and stuff.

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PhantomMonstrosity

Let's say we had a platypus Feruchemist, who can sense electric fields. Could he make a tinmind for that sense?

Brandon Sanderson

Platypus tinmind should work.

source

 

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I think the problem with Trell being cultivation is at first glance

  1. Cultivation is stuck with Odium in Roshar and it doesn't look like it's gonna be resolved soon
  2. It's more likely that it'd be Odium rather than Cultivation if it really was a Roshar-ian shard who is messing with Scadrial Era 2
  3. Odium didn't get all the hype from WoB's, fans and "the most dangerous of 16" just so that he'll lose inbetween SA 5 and 6 to fit the nifty timeline that either cultivation or odium is attacking scadrial
  4. Autonomy is building a galactic empire and well Cultivation can't even secure her own realm.
  5. I liked the theory that Cultivation had a hand of Honor's downfall but she literally can't be against team Dalinar midway because if nobody opposes a shard and if the shard tries to kill the mortals they simply can't do anything about it.
  6. There are those who didn't like the entire situation of Ruin and Preservation ended up with but there are still shards who don't mind that situation. 
  7. Cultivation vessel doesn't seem like a foolish girl who would fight the two giants of cosmere at the same time.
  8. Afaik there's a Trell in whitesand (a world Autonomy invested in)
  9. About the Hemalurgy theory basically what we've seen so far that is the application of Hemalurgy is simply what Ruin shared and Trell showcased. Afaik there are more forms that Hemalurgy can do but i doubt Sazed is willing to share.
Edited by goody153
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On 8/1/2018 at 5:35 PM, Unlicensed Hemalurgist said:

I'm pretty sure that the Era 2 entity calling itself "Trell" is just hijacking the trappings of a pre-Lord Ruler religion to further its (her?) own purposes. There's no evidence that the historical Trell ever existed.

The name actually does come up elsewhere prior to Mistborn, by a thousand years or so. The name Trell comes up in the White Sands story, both the graphic novel and non-canon prose versions. White Sands features a planet with a big focus on the sun, similar to the original Trelagism religion (which in turn is similar to one on Roshar, coincidence? I THINK NOT).

Throw in the WoB that indicates Autonomy likes to use religions, and the one about Shard's visiting Scadrial, and you have an interesting connection.

Spoiler

emailanimal

[Brandon] must have had enough of chuckles every time someone referred to Bavadin as a "he" over the past few years.....

Brandon Sanderson

Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular.

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

Argent

There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

I think that's hilarious.

I've been meaning to ask a similar question for a few days now, I am glad someone else did and you replied. Bavadin is now instantly super interesting to me!

Brandon Sanderson

Bavadin is awesome. One regret of finally moving on from White Sand (and doing the graphic novel, instead of doing an entire trilogy myself) is because I won't get to show her off as a character for a while. It should still happen, mind you, but I have enough on my plate right now that I just can't do it all.

Argent

Eh, it's alright. The more we wait to see her, the more practice writing you will have when you do write her, and the more awesome she will be to us :) Are we going to see her in White Sand first though, or elsewhere?

I've also been talking with a couple of friends about Ambition, who happens to be a Shard I love unconditionally just because of his?her? mandate. So I should ask - how tight-lipped do you intend to be with information about it? Can we prod for a little bit of trivia, or is it too early for that?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to be pretty tight-lipped for now. Let's at least let White Sand finish first--you will find her in there, though her touch on the story (directly) is light. She prefers to allow her personas to become the focus of attention.

source
Spoiler

Herald (paraphrased)

Have we see [Bavadin's] influence on other worlds till now – like Austre in Nalthis or other religions which Sazed studied on Scadrial for example.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes you have seen her influence in other worlds other than Taldain. He wouldn't confirm if it is Nalthis or Scadrial or any other planet.

source
Spoiler

mender

Was Scadrial visited by any other Shard before the events of Mistborn? If so, which one?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Several.

source

 

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So, I was to lazy to read the what was actually said prior to this, but I have thought of this being a possibility before, mainly because we have no idea what happens at the end of SA, and just cause, maybe. No idea what the timeline between end of SA and MB Era 2 is though.

Edited by Ishar
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On 8/3/2018 at 3:06 PM, Wandering Investor said:

 

  Hide contents

Brandon Sanderson

Bavadin has several male personas, and has often appeared as male for one purpose or another, so it's not that much of an issue. She has more female personas, but some of the male ones are quite popular.

This won't be relevant for a long while, but as a service to the community, let me say this: try not to get too hung up on gender, race, or even human appearance where Bavadin is concerned. There are some peoples who worship entire pantheons where every member is actually her.

 

source

 

This is fantastic. Can't believe I've never seen this WoB before! Do we have any idea how many avatars autonomy has created at this point?

Edited by tmnsquirtle
put text in the spoiler box oops
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1 hour ago, tmnsquirtle said:

This is fantastic. Can't believe I've never seen this WoB before! Do we have any idea how many avatars autonomy has created at this point?

Not really. There are only two that are confirmed, that being the Sand Lord from White Sands, and the avatar on Obrodai mentioned in the letter.

It is also suspected that Patji from First of the Sun is another one and now Trell from Scadrial. But WoB's definitely indicate that there are more out there.

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