Robinski - 180801 - AK Dead Horse - Part 8 - 3991 words (L)

[Robinski]

I am so very sorry for how horribly late this is, and I really only submit it now because there is only one other sub this week.

If you are still willing to read it, any comments would be very much appreciated. I know there are issues here, but I need to hear them, so fire away  

Kind regards, Robinski

[Mandamon]

I think there's still a bit of confusion going into this from last time, so it took me a few pages to catch back up. There's still very little information on what happened, so I'm having trouble drawing conclusions.
The part in the cellar felt slow to me, mostly because I've never been on board with J+C. I need some more emotion here to make it work.

After that, it picked up a bit, and the ending is surprising, but not yet inevitable. I think with some more work on the beginning, it could be very good.

Notes while reading:
pg 79: "I… was caught in library"
--still don't know if J remembers what happened. Also, missing a word. Also also, isn't anyone chasing him?

pg 79: "This place at high doh "
--??

pg 80: "But what if I had another attack?"
--so he does remember? I need some emotional context to know what he feels about it past just "What if I killed someone." Was there any physical change? Does he feel different at all? Was he in control at all?

pg 80: "Perhaps the incident would be put down to and angry tenant"
--didn't they see him? I still don't understand why there isn't a horde of people running after them.

pg 80: "our former fellow inmate point."
--pointed

pg 81: "Heads turned and startled or angry faces tracked us"
--didn't anyone try to stop them?

pg 81: "heard the contact of metal and pictured the mechanism. I knew what each tiny sound meant."
--Eh? Is this a power or J's natural skill? Also, can you pick a lock with a belt buckle?

pg 82: "Before my last awareness ran dry"
--ah, so it was magic. I'm not fully on board with "awareness" doing this. Maybe a little more explanation?

pg 82: "Lying to her "
--how much does he remember?

pg 83: “Will she do right by us?” 
--who? D?

pg 84: Still not getting the connection between J and C. I think the chemistry's just off to me.

pg 85: "Can we just get through this?"
--get through what? It feels like they had a big argument and I just missed it.

pg 85: "but with nothing better to do I had been mulling on this for long minutes, and had reached a point where I was done with her."
--Yet we've been told nothing of this until now.

pg 86: "it was a long, long time since my performance"
--does this matter?

pg 86: "popped it open"
--the door, the belt, or his awareness? If the door, how does his awareness help that?
--also, I didn't get that this cellar connected to the kitchen.

pg 86: "My hump bumped a table"
--hip?

pg 87: "My awareness fed me nothing"
--he still has that on? How long does it last?

pg 88: "Awareness would not penetrate this"
--why? I still don't have a good grasp on how awareness works.

pg 88: "drew on heat"
--how many reserves does he have and where did he get them? WRS?

pg 88: "P. stood up from the desk"
--ok, that's cool.

pg 89: "private army of casters?"
--Do what now? Did we know this?

pg 89: "what human marrow might do"
--aha...so now we know.

pg 91: So the last line means C has been holding out??

[kais]

My last one to catch up on! I feel so accomplished!

Overall

Excellent pacing and tension in this one. Really good hooks. I still struggle with J and his random rage, but I assume that can be cleaned up in future edits. LOVE the human marrow part. Horrifying and gross. Just perfect. Carry on!

On 8/2/2018 at 10:31 AM, Mandamon said:

I still don't understand why there isn't a horde of people running after them.

Also confused on this

On 8/2/2018 at 10:31 AM, Mandamon said:

Can we just get through this?"
--get through what? It feels like they had a big argument and I just missed it.

Yes this. What are they arguing about? Why is J so mad?

As I go

- page 80: I feel like our protag should have a lot more feelings and questions about what happened to him, because I certainly do

- page 84: so drawing on the tiger marrow is what did it? I think that may need to brought out more, and earlier

- page 85: I'm confused. Why is J mad at C? Because she won't... fall in love with him? Won't stay in Wren? Won't put out? Where is his anger coming from, because it read like they had a reasonable heart to heart, and she explained her pain, and he...got mad that she's got some emotional damage/trauma? I mean, did he not think to maybe ask about it, or share some of his own pain to help her feel less alone? C remains a fairly well written characters, and surprisingly deep emotionally, but J never seems written quite to her level. I don't know if you're doing this on purpose or not, to show J's flaws, either.

- page 86: his hump bumped a table? His hip? Or is this a Fergie/Black Eyed Peas song thing?

- 89: human marrow ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww

- Oooh, solid end line

[Robinski]

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

I think there's still a bit of confusion going into this from last time, so it took me a few pages to catch back up. There's still very little information on what happened, so I'm having trouble drawing conclusions.
The part in the cellar felt slow to me, mostly because I've never been on board with J+C. I need some more emotion here to make it work.

After that, it picked up a bit, and the ending is surprising, but not yet inevitable. I think with some more work on the beginning, it could be very good.

Cool, I'm happy with that at this stage. This is me all over, blustering through the first draft and having to fix the plot/chr rationale later.

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 79: "I… was caught in library"
--still don't know if J remembers what happened. Also, missing a word. Also also, isn't anyone chasing him?

He does, or will in Draft #2. Also, I need to highlight it better, but yes he was being pursued, sort of, but there is a lot of confusion in the house and K and P hustled him away.

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 79: "This place at high doh "
--??

"be up to high doh" - Scottish english informal to be in a very nervous or excited state: "I don't mind confessing that I was up to high doh with excitement before the game."

I guess it's local. I'll leave it in for now. I thought of it as British, but maybe it's not!

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 80: "But what if I had another attack?"
--so he does remember? I need some emotional context to know what he feels about it past just "What if I killed someone." Was there any physical change? Does he feel different at all? Was he in control at all?

Excellent point. New paragraph to be included on these points.

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 80: "Perhaps the incident would be put down to and angry tenant"
--didn't they see him? I still don't understand why there isn't a horde of people running after them.

See answer above. Yes, and I need to deal with this somehow. Thanks for flagging. There's a basis to it, but not clear.

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 81: "Heads turned and startled or angry faces tracked us"
--didn't anyone try to stop them?

I've added some lines on this. Better, I think. Good call.

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 81: "heard the contact of metal and pictured the mechanism. I knew what each tiny sound meant."
--Eh? Is this a power or J's natural skill? Also, can you pick a lock with a belt buckle?

I've highlighted it's his awareness. Also, the pointy bit of the buckle (prong) can pick these locks, apparently (cough).

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 82: "Before my last awareness ran dry"
--ah, so it was magic. I'm not fully on board with "awareness" doing this. Maybe a little more explanation?

Okay, I'll need to do the research on this and insert some more detail in the next draft.

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 82: "Lying to her "
--how much does he remember?

I've aimed identify that better. In short, he remembers pretty much everything, but lacks any understanding of the how/why/what of it.

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 85: "Can we just get through this?"
--get through what? It feels like they had a big argument and I just missed it.

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 85: "but with nothing better to do I had been mulling on this for long minutes, and had reached a point where I was done with her."
--Yet we've been told nothing of this until now.

Take your point here. I've inserted a paragraph that punches up the argument.

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 86: "it was a long, long time since my performance"
--does this matter?

Edited.

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 87: "My awareness fed me nothing"
--he still has that on? How long does it last?

pg 88: "Awareness would not penetrate this"
--why? I still don't have a good grasp on how awareness works.

pg 88: "drew on heat"
--how many reserves does he have and where did he get them? WRS?

There's going to be a comprehensive overhaul of the magic system before the edit, so I'll can-of-worms this stuff until then, but yes, it's not consistent or particularly clear or elegant in it's logicality.

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 88: "P. stood up from the desk"
--ok, that's cool.

Yay  

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 89: "private army of casters?"
--Do what now? Did we know this?

We do, some weeks back certainly.

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

pg 91: So the last line means C has been holding out??

Looks that way

Great comments, thank you. Some good challenges there that will make the story stronger.  

[Robinski]

Hey thanks for reading, Kais. You seem to be all caught up, well done  

On 04/08/2018 at 0:21 AM, kais said:

Excellent pacing and tension in this one. Really good hooks. I still struggle with J and his random rage, but I assume that can be cleaned up in future edits. [Yep.] LOVE the human marrow part. Horrifying and gross. Just perfect. Carry on!

 

On 04/08/2018 at 0:21 AM, kais said:

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

I still don't understand why there isn't a horde of people running after them.

Also confused on this

I've done a bit on this, and more assimilation to come in the edit.

On 04/08/2018 at 0:21 AM, kais said:

On 02/08/2018 at 6:31 PM, Mandamon said:

Can we just get through this?"
--get through what? It feels like they had a big argument and I just missed it.

Yes this. What are they arguing about? Why is J so mad?

Yes. I've added a few lines to try and tie this down better.

On 04/08/2018 at 0:21 AM, kais said:

- page 80: I feel like our protag should have a lot more feelings and questions about what happened to him, because I certainly do

I'm starting to work these feelings in, but have more to do on that.

On 04/08/2018 at 0:21 AM, kais said:

- page 84: so drawing on the tiger marrow is what did it? I think that may need to brought out more, and earlier

Well, I am trying to not make that obvious, like it's a reveal, but it doesn't seem to be working on either level at the moment. I'll CoW it to the edit.

On 04/08/2018 at 0:21 AM, kais said:

- page 85: I'm confused. Why is J mad at C? Because she won't... fall in love with him? Won't stay in Wren? Won't put out? Where is his anger coming from, because it read like they had a reasonable heart to heart, and she explained her pain, and he...got mad that she's got some emotional damage/trauma? I mean, did he not think to maybe ask about it, or share some of his own pain to help her feel less alone? C remains a fairly well written characters, and surprisingly deep emotionally, but J never seems written quite to her level. I don't know if you're doing this on purpose or not, to show J's flaws, either.

The relationship has changed radically (as you may remember) from the initial conceptualisation, so it's probably inevitable it is still settling. I'm kind of discovering writing it. I will consolidate it in the edit. Interesting that you and Mandamon have quite different reactions to it (not necessarily incompatible, I hasten to add).

On 04/08/2018 at 0:21 AM, kais said:

- page 86: his hump bumped a table? His hip? Or is this a Fergie/Black Eyed Peas song thing?

LOL  

On 04/08/2018 at 0:21 AM, kais said:

- 89: human marrow ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww

- Oooh, solid end line

Super. I'm glad the ending worked for 'ee.

Thanks so much for the comments. Off now to try and bash out Part 9 before Wednesday morning :-/ 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Robinski

[shatteredsmooth]

I felt a little disoriented at the begining of this section. I swore he got caught at the end of the last one in his blind rage, and then his fellow thieves are helping him somewhere and then someone points him and out and I realize everyone did know it was him who rampaged, he just hadn't gotten physically caught. The transition between the two scenes could use more work, but that might be something to focus on when you have a beta reader going through the whole thing at once instead of a chapter by chapter thing. 

I had more of a problem with the J-C relationship in this section than in any other the others since the first version I saw of the scene in which J first met her. More on that below. 

As I read:

"...potatoes, or his swag." I didn't quite get the swag part, but my head might be to caught up in modern connotations of the word. 

"Calmly...Quietly..." so it seems like she is comforting him like she knows what happened, but he didn't tell her and doesn't seem to realize this. You might be hinting at something here, but it did throw me out of the narrative and make me wonder what I was missing.

"...doorway. Pen..." This made me realize he was just far enough ahead of pursuers to get to his co-thieves.

"C's hand to hook..." Is he really trying to get laid while hiding from pursuers? If I were her I'd break a wine bottle over his head instead of whispering...ok, well, maybe that would've given the hiding spot away, but still, her reaction was way too gentle from my perspective. 

"her?" C whispered..." I wasn't sure who her was on this dialogue

"Being with me has a heavy price" this felt a tad forced, cliche and is kind of an overdone female warrior trope. Plus I think C is  a bit more complex. Unless C isn't being honest...maybe she really just can't stand him and is trying to be gentle with his ego. 

"a point where I was done with her" done with what? had anything really started aside from a on-sided crush on her and a bit of a jerk about it? 

"cheap infatuation" right, so now that she rejected him, he admits it is an infatuation, but also calls it cheap, demeaning or devaluing her because she rejected him. 

"glint of steel in..." really pretty description "end to me" ok, didn't he see her as a threat or someone who could do him in when he first saw her in prison? It might not have been directly written, but between the lines it implied it to me, maybe. Like, that is one of the school yard bullies and I need to get on her good side before she squashes me, especially since she is a hottie. 

"Black Witch" Had you used this earlier? I had forgotten. And using the term witch doesn't work, even after reading the next section...

...excepting" the context of the sentence made me think you meant expecting, unless you are referring back to P excepting J from the list. 

"Wipe my mind again" OK, this makes sense as far as the gaps in memory were concerned, but I was expecting a little more reaction from J. 

It did end with a good hook! 

Overall, the middle of this section was well paced, the opening was a little jarring, and the end was a little quick but had a good hook. It definitely feels like it is building quickly, getting closet to a climax and resolution.

 

[Robinski]

Hey Shasmo, (?! - I've been struggling to find a satisfactory abbreviation of your username for weeks now, one that didn't involve the first two letters...)

Thank you so much for reading.

On 09/08/2018 at 1:13 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

The transition between the two scenes could use more work

Yeah. There's quite a bit that's rough and ready. Plenty of work required in the edit.

On 09/08/2018 at 1:13 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

I didn't quite get the swag part, but my head might be to caught up in modern connotations of the word.

Erm, not sure I know the modern connotation. I'm using it in the traditional sense, i.e. 'loot'.

On 09/08/2018 at 1:13 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

her reaction was way too gentle from my perspective.

Ahhhh, that wasn't the intention. J feels his way around the cellar, and his intention is to guide Ch in the darkness to the next spot. He doesn't want them to be separated.

On 09/08/2018 at 1:13 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

I wasn't sure who her was on this dialogue

I thought it was quite clear that it was D, who is mentioned in the previous line. I'll think if there is anything I can do to make that clearer.

On 09/08/2018 at 1:13 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

"Being with me has a heavy price" this felt a tad forced, cliche and is kind of an overdone female warrior trope. Plus I think C is  a bit more complex. Unless C isn't being honest...maybe she really just can't stand him and is trying to be gentle with his ego.

Hmm. Okay. Hear what you say. I can accept the dialogue is a bit clumsy. I'll take another look at this... And I've changed it up a bit. I think the dialogue is less melodramatic. We'll see what the alpha reader(s) thinks. Thanks for calling that out  

On 09/08/2018 at 1:13 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

"a point where I was done with her" done with what? had anything really started aside from a on-sided crush on her and a bit of a jerk about it?

I've changed this to "done chasing her."

On 09/08/2018 at 1:13 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

"cheap infatuation" right, so now that she rejected him, he admits it is an infatuation, but also calls it cheap, demeaning or devaluing her because she rejected him.

I'll let this ride for the moment. Either he's an a-hole (entirely plausible) or he's deluding himself (equally possible). Neither is incompatible with the story, I feel.

On 09/08/2018 at 1:13 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

"end to me" ok, didn't he see her as a threat or someone who could do him in when he first saw her in prison? It might not have been directly written, but between the lines it implied it to me, maybe. Like, that is one of the school yard bullies and I need to get on her good side before she squashes me, especially since she is a hottie.

I've tweaked the wording very slightly, in the hope I don't need to rip this up completely. I take your point.

On 09/08/2018 at 1:13 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

"Black Witch" Had you used this earlier? I had forgotten. And using the term witch doesn't work, even after reading the next section...

I had mentioned it once (twice? - certainly once). I hear what you say, but the label has essentially been incorrectly applied by popular opinion and misdirected scuttlebutt.

On 09/08/2018 at 1:13 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

...excepting"

Mistyped - thank you.

On 09/08/2018 at 1:13 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

"Wipe my mind again" OK, this makes sense as far as the gaps in memory were concerned, but I was expecting a little more reaction from J. 

Good point, and lack of reaction from J is a theme running through the story. I will be punching this up throughout. I've punched this bit up, since we're talking about it.

On 09/08/2018 at 1:13 AM, shatteredsmooth said:

Overall, the middle of this section was well paced, the opening was a little jarring, and the end was a little quick but had a good hook. It definitely feels like it is building quickly, getting closet to a climax and resolution.

Super! I'll take that at first draft stage. Thank you so much for your comments. Very much appreciated!!

 

[shatteredsmooth]

25 minutes ago, Robinski said:

Erm, not sure I know the modern connotation. I'm using it in the traditional sense, i.e. 'loot'.

OK -- I don't know what I was thinking. The meaning hasn't changed, just what kind of loot people get. My brain just short circuited.  

[shatteredsmooth]

30 minutes ago, Robinski said:

I'll let this ride for the moment. Either he's an a-hole (entirely plausible) or he's deluding himself (equally possible). Neither is incompatible with the story, I feel

Yeah -- you don't have to change it. It is consistent with character either way. And I can't say I'm not guilty of over dramatic swings in opinions of people, just not romantically.  i.e. in a one minute I'm friends with one of my neighbors and the next I'm muttering about them being an a-hole because they mowed my lawn or didn't make sure they cat got inside before it rained. 

 

34 minutes ago, Robinski said:

Good point, and lack of reaction from J is a theme running through the story. I will be punching this up throughout. I've punched this bit up, since we're talking about it.

He still probably reacts more than my characters. 

 

34 minutes ago, Robinski said:

've changed this to "done chasing her."

I think that works much better! 

 

35 minutes ago, Robinski said:

I thought it was quite clear that it was D, who is mentioned in the previous line. I'll think if there is anything I can do to make that clearer.

On 8/8/2018 at 8:13 PM, shatteredsmooth said:

If not, maybe I was just short  circuiting again. It wasn't a good week for me with things like words and syntax. Beware if you read my submission from this week. I've been told I have so many errors its hard to understand, and I am afraid to go back and look it. 

 

37 minutes ago, Robinski said:

Ahhhh, that wasn't the intention. J feels his way around the cellar, and his intention is to guide Ch in the darkness to the next spot. He doesn't want them to be separated.

OK, so my mind was in the gutter then. 

 

38 minutes ago, Robinski said:

Shasmo

You can always just use my real if you really want to (Sara) or my real initials (SC). I wasn't thinking when I decided to use my social media handle / name of my abandoned seaglass-related craft business as a name for a forum where people refer to each other by the display names. 

[Robinski]

54 minutes ago, shatteredsmooth said:

Beware if you read my submission from this week. I've been told I have so many errors its hard to understand, and I am afraid to go back and look it.

I'll rein in my righteous anger  

55 minutes ago, shatteredsmooth said:

OK, so my mind was in the gutter then.

 

56 minutes ago, shatteredsmooth said:

You can always just use my real if you really want to (Sara) or my real initials (SC). I wasn't thinking when I decided to use my social media handle / name of my abandoned seaglass-related craft business as a name for a forum where people refer to each other by the display names.

Oh my, it certainly wasn't intended as a criticism. I'll go with SC, or 'hey you'  

Great comments: thanks again!