18 posts in this topic

Hello all,

I have invested some stake in the idea that Cusicesh the Protector is the third Sibling, referred to as a sleeping "they" by the Stormfather in Oathbringer.  The Stormfather refuses to divulge more information than their existence and their relation to himself and the Nightwatcher.  Cusicesh is described in Interlude I-5 of the Way of Kings as a spren of great size (over 100 feet tall) with four arms and a body with a deep blue center.  It* rises out of the ocean at the same time every day (7:46am, though I won't pretend to know what that means,) and looks toward the Origin for the full ten minutes of its "performance".  While doing so, it rapidly changes between human faces--male and female.  Axies cannot tell if there are any repetitions of the faces shown.  People who have watched Cusicesh have reported feeling drained afterwards.  From Oathbringer's exploration of the Cognitive Realm, there is mention of a link between humanity and the spren.  If the Sibling is "sleeping" as the Stormfather said, I believe they would still need to sustain that interaction with humanity.  So, everyday, Cusicesh wakes up from its pseudo-hibernation, drains some energy from onlookers to sustain itself, and looks toward the Origin with longing, bearing the faces of those it bonded with in the past, then goes back to sleep.

 

*Though I believe Cusicesh to be the Sibling in question, my belief does not constitute as evidence for sentience in said spren, so I will use the pronouns given to me from the book for Cusicesh until I am proven correct or other pronouns are given.

Edited by Elhokay I guess
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I love this idea so much. I mean, maybe it's too straightforward for the Flanderson, as my fiancée calls him, but I think it sounds very plausible.

Edited by Honor's Radiance
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Brandon was asked this once, here's what he said:

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Does Cusicesh the Protector have anything to do with the third Sibling at Urithiru?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

See, you gave me too much wiggle room there. Because "anything" is a really broad term. So I could say yes, but not in the way you're thinking.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Okay, hmm I have to rethink my theory then.

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

I'll say probably not in the way you're thinking.

source

 

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Brandon also said that Cusicesh is a level below the SF and the NW, so I do not believe it is the Sibling. I believe the Sibling is on an equivalent power level to the SF (at least as he was before Honor died) and the NW.

Quote

Questioner

Speaking of the Stormfather, would the Nightwatcher and the giant water spren be on the same level of spren as the Stormfather?

Brandon Sanderson

...The Nightwatcher, yes. Um... There are, I would say, a level below the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher who are also much-- a much bigger deal than something like one of the sapient spren, and that's what Cusicesh is.

Questioner

So the Nightwatcher is a spren you'd say?

Brandon Sanderson

The Nightwatcher-- I mean, they call the Nightwatcher a spren. Everyone in the books thinks the Nightwatcher is a spren. That's what they would call-- that's what they would call, if they knew what Honor was, they would call Honor a spren. A spren is Investiture that is alive.

Bystander

Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

So they would call Nightblood a spren. They would call-- That's the word for what all of these things are. They would probably've called Adonalsium a spren…

Moderator

What would Hoid call one of those?

Brandon Sanderson

What would Hoid call the Nightwatcher? *laughter* What would Hoid call one of what?

Moderator

Yeah what would Hoid call the Nightwatcher?

Brandon Sanderson

Um… *long pause/laughter*

Moderator

If Hoid were to use a non-proper noun?

Brandon Sanderson

Unpleasant names. *laughter*

source

 

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Looks like Weltall and CrazyRioter beat me to it this time ;) But yeah, given those two WoBs, it's pretty unlikely that Cusicesh is the Sibling. :(

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It could be that Cusicesh is part of the Sibling, or was the Sibling

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Perhaps all the ancient, major cities once had their own patron spren, most of which are now lost or forgotten. Kolinar does have the strata through its walls, just like Urithiru; maybe it was meant to have a spren, too.

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"My research into the cognitive reflections of the spren at the tower has been deeply illustrative. Some thought that the Sibling had withdrawn from men by intent- but I find counter to that theory."

I'm gonna float something here:

Could the Sib-ling reference a race of spren and not an individual one? Simply because of the capitalized wording?

Edited by ScavellTane
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12 minutes ago, ScavellTane said:

Could the Sib-ling reference a race of spren and not an individual one? Simply because of the capitalized wording?

Due to the last line of this WoB, I doubt it. 

Quote

wiresegal

In OB, you explained that the Singers have four sexes. I was wondering... Can the Singers have genders other than those four, like humans? Even as simple as just not going with male, female, or malen/femalen. Could a transgender Singer use their ability to shift forms to change their biological reality? And, finally, could a Spren be non-binary, if it wasn't personified in a typical male/female way?

Brandon Sanderson

In the cosmere as a whole, a person's perception of themselves has a lot of power over both their Spiritual and Physical forms. It is possible, with investiture, to change their biology to match Cognitive perceptions--and while this could be easier for some races (like the Singers) it's not outside plausibility for any race.

There are non-binary spren, actually--and you should be meeting one important one quite soon in the books.

source

I think the Sibling is exactly what it's been presented as. A single non-gendered Spren. 

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I don't get why people see that WOB to somehow have a connection to the Sibling. Was the question asked in reference to the Sibling issue?

Edited by ScavellTane
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2 minutes ago, ScavellTane said:

I don't get why people equate that WOB to the Sibling. Was the question asked in conjunction to the Sibling issue? Or were people just meshing it together due to the current real world PC climate?

The Stormfather speaks of the sibling as a singular with a non-gendered plural pronoun. 

He doesn't say there are "others" in addition to himself and the Nightwatcher, he say there is "another." 

Add it all up, and "you should be meeting one important one quite soon" seems pretty straightforward. 

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The thing is, the Nightwatcher was not mentioned in that conversation. Dalinar spoke of Cultivation. 

Quote

“Are there others like me out there?” he finally asked. Not right now, and there can ever be only three. One for each of us. “Three?” Dalinar said. “Three spren who make Bondsmiths. You … and Cultivation are two?” The Stormfather actually laughed. You would have a difficult time making her your spren. I should like to see you try it.
“Then who?” My siblings need not concern you.

The Stormfather says there can ever be 3 Bondsmiths, not necessarily saying that there are only 3 Bondsmith-spren. Dalinar automatically assumes that there are only 3 Bondsmith-spren.

But of course there's the 'One for each of us' caveat.

That's where my speculation comes in:

Quote

"But as for the Bondsmiths, they had members only three, which number was not uncommon for them; nor did they seek to increase this by great bounds, for during the times of Madasa, only one of their order was in continual accompaniment of Urithiru and its thrones. Their spren was understood to be specific, and to persuade them to grow to the magnitude of the other orders was seen as seditious."

This Epigraph tells me that the Bondsmith can grow beyond 3. Of course you've said that voindbinding would be used to do so, but I doubt that any within the Order would consider voidbinding as an option considering what they did to Khazilah.

Therefore,I believe that there are more than 3 Bondsmith-spren and they are divided under 3 aspects Storm,Stone and Spren.

Edited by ScavellTane
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9 minutes ago, ScavellTane said:

This Epigraph tells me that the Bondsmith can grow beyond 3. Of course you've said that voindbinding would be used to do so, but I doubt that any within the Order would consider voidbinding as an option considering what they did to Khazilah.

Nitpick, but it wouldn't be voidbinding, it would be a Nahel bond with an Unmade, which is exactly why it would be "seditious." 

I don't see why growing their numbers through naturally occurring spren would be viewed as such. 

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16 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Nitpick, but it wouldn't be voidbinding, it would be a Nahel bond with an Unmade, which is exactly why it would be "seditious." 

I don't see why growing their numbers through naturally occurring spren would be viewed as such. 

Because as the Stormfather says, there can ever be 3. If it's the law, breaking it would be seditious yes?

How would you form a Nahel-bond with an Unmade?

Edited by ScavellTane
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5 minutes ago, ScavellTane said:

Because as the Stormfather says, there can ever be 3. How would you form a Nahel-bond with an Unmade?

Don't know, the same as you would with any other spren? 

Quote

Questioner

Can the Unmade be bonded?

Brandon Sanderson

Wow, plausible... Yes, or possible, I should say.

source

 

Edited by Calderis
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I guess the better question would be why would a bonded Unmade be placed with the Bondsmiths?

Will have agree to disagree then. You place more weight on the specificity of spren and I place more weight on the number itself.

Edited by ScavellTane
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I think the reason binding an unmade would result in a be a bondsmith is because the unmade (like the stormfather and night watcher) are increadibly powerful and unique spren. I imagine a bond to the Thrill would lead to some very interesting abilities. Honestly I think we’re slightly set up for that, as the Unmade Sja-anat seems to want to leave Odium behind. 

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