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Shadows of Self Question


Master Knapper

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During a conversation between Wax and Bleeder, Bleeder makes a statement about someone being a pawn.  Wax replies, but Bleeder says "I wasn't talking to you that time, Waximillian."  Are there any theories as to who she was talking to, and who she was talking about?

 

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I've wondered about that "conversation". When he got close enough, Bleeder was able to talk to him physically. And it's not clear how that "voice in his head" conversation happened. Harmony and Ruin could do it for someone pierced by a hemalurgic spike, which apparently Bleeder was able to do as well... How does that make sense?

More likely, it's another Shard, Trell/Autonomy, who has co-opted other parts of Ruin's magic as well in terms of creating that new hemalurgic metal/spike for Bleeder, that can "tap into" the spike to talk to Wax in his head. I don't see how Bleeder could use stolen Feruchemy or Allomancy to do it, it has to be Shardic.

If you re-read that conversation with Wax (Chapter 16 of Shadows of Self), there are many times when it sounds a lot like what "Autonomy" would say rather than Paalm/Lessie/Bleeder, mixed in with stuff that P/L/B would know about and say to Wax. As if P/L/B had become a little bit merged with the Shard, or serving as a vehicle.

The little speech she gives about the body's defenses (alluding to the immune system, white blood cells, and the potential for pathological autoimmune reactions, which level of biology Era 2 Scadrians would know nothing about) sounds very Shardic in nature. As does addressing him as "Waxillium" when B/L/P generally always calls him "Wax", the whole time.

So I'd say the phrase "I wasn't talking to you that time" was Autonomy talking to P/L/B, in a way that the co-opted magic of Ruin required P/L/B to hear and be able to interject to, as well as Wax.

Hmm, does that mean that Autonomy has also co-opted the magic of Preservation in terms of being able to hear Wax's thoughts (which Ruin could not do)?

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On 7/26/2018 at 4:21 PM, robardin said:

Hmm, does that mean that Autonomy has also co-opted the magic of Preservation in terms of being able to hear Wax's thoughts (which Ruin could not do)?

As of that time, it did not appear that P/L/B or what/whoever was controlling her could hear what Wax was thinking. Of course, they could have just been playing dumb.

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Quote

“Is that why you’re targeting the governor, then?” he asked. “You want to bring him down, free the people from the government’s oppression?”

You know he’s just another pawn.

“I don’t know that.”

I wasn’t talking to you that time, Waxillium.

Sanderson, Brandon. Shadows of Self: A Mistborn Novel (p. 259). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

I see three possabilites. The first is the Paalm is addressing Harmony in this instance, with the "he's just another pawn" bit. The second is that Autonomy, or one of her Avatars, is addressing Paalm and then responding to Waxillium. @robardin makes a good point about the speaker addressing Wax as Waxillium, something Paalm didnt' really do. Although the part about an indepth understanding of the bodies defenses could be explained by Paalm being a kandra, who possess immense knowledge on the working of a body. The third option is the one Calderis pointed out, Paalm is telling someone to ignore Wayne. I don't think this one is likely, as I'm not sure who she would be talking to or why she would be bothering with Wayne at that point.

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On 7/28/2018 at 0:05 AM, Invocation said:

As of that time, it did not appear that P/L/B or what/whoever was controlling her could hear what Wax was thinking. Of course, they could have just been playing dumb.

But in the mental conversation that Wax is having (he assumes only with Bleeder, but I think is also with Autonomy), while Wax is speaking aloud, it's not clear how it is that Bleeder can hear what he's saying. At the beginning, he tries modulating his voice's volume and walking around in various directions to see where Bleeder might start to not hear him as well or at all, to triangulate a direction and distance where the listener was, but to no effect - he wondered if Bleeder were using Allomancy (burning tin). But then when he finally does physically see Bleeder, she moves with Feruchemical speed, and she's limited to one hemalurgically stolen Metallic power at a time, so it couldn't have been that.

...Actually do we actually know that that is true? Now that I think of it (but not having the book in front of me), wasn't that limitation something posited or assumed by the kandra when explaining to Wax about her running around with just the one spike, as two would render her under Harmony's direct control, and surmising that she was swapping out that one spike for another one granting a different power as she switched between demonstrated Steelrunning and Coinshot abilities, pulling one out and then falling onto the other one?

But then later they do find her one spike and it's an "unknown metal", that looks "godlike" and with red spots. So either that one spike could itself swap powers somehow, or there's at least one more such spike with the stolen F-steel in it (since Wax shot her with his earring spike/bullet while P/L/B was a Coinshot).

Edited by robardin
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