26 posts in this topic

I thought about this one today when I was meant to be studying other things (Learning is difficult when you're still living in a book's world).

 

The specific number of Bondsmiths was stated in WoR as three. Always three. The epigraph implied heavily that the Bondsmiths made the choice to keep their numbers limited. However, Dalinar's actions at the end of WoR gave me another idea:

 

What if the Bondsmiths can only bond with unique spren?

 

I know, every sentient spren is unique, but there are other honorspren than Syl, more Cryptics other than Pattern and so on. The unique spren would be of the Stormfather level, and he is a fragment of Honor. (I don't know if this makes him a Splinter, or so on)

 

So what if the NIghtwatcher is the same to Cultivation as the Stormfather is to Honor?

 

That would account for another Bondsmith. The final one gets interesting. Would they be tied to Odium's spren?

 

I think it has a kind of poetic balance, based on the idea that to truly unite a people, you have to understand every aspect. One Bondsmith represents Honor (Dalinar), another Cultivation and yet another Odium. I'm interested in seeing what effect bonding with the Stormfather will bring about on Dalinar's personality. Does he remain a separate entity, or will the two minds fuse to a degree?

 

If they remain separate, a Bondsmith could bond with Odium's unique while remaining level headed and not poisoned with hate.

 

My previous theories have all been proposed before, or WoB'd out, but I think I'm finally getting on top of the speculation around here!

14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm very-very sorry to kind of disappoint you :) But I've seen this theory around here. Also it was supposed the the 3rd spren is Cusicesh which Aimian Axies the collector studied while on Iri :)

 

Your idea that the 3rd spren is of Odium is new. But honestly I would not agree that it is possible cause Odium's spren seem to behave completely differently compared to cultivation/honor spren. At least to me it looks that way.

 

Edit: Found the topic where this theory was being discussed: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7145-my-theory-on-the-bondsmiths/

Edited by dnavre
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Darn, they beat me by almost exactly 36 hours! Thanks for the heads up, dnavre, and welcome to the 17th Shard!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the idea of bond smiths bonding god spren is probably accurate. I would hate to see an odium spren...hopefully there is still an Adonalsium spren running around.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is also this topic where we have been discussing the Bondsmith spren

 

I will be disappointed if a Bondsmith bonds an "Odium" spren. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No can do - WoB that humans can't bond (or at least have a very hard time bonding with) voidspren.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No can do - WoB that humans can't bond (or at least have a very hard time bonding with) voidspren.

 

But are voidspren the only kind of odium spren out there?

 

The theory would come down to the idea of whether you count the Stormfather as an honorspren, or something greater? Hence, would an Odiumfather (terrible, terrible name. I have got to come up with something better) be a voidspren?

 

Hmmmm. The "Hateblender?" "Heartstriker?" "Worldbreaker?" "Cattlerustler?"

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shardslayer?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shardslayer?

 

Not quite as evocative as Cattlerustler, but I like it.

 

The multiple layers of meaning of the word Shard on Roshar adds to it. Residents of Roshar would be thinking "It's spren more powerful than a shardblade/plate!" and the Cosmere aware would be thinking on a whole different level.

 

Where do you land on this one, Trevor? Do you think Odium left a godspren?

 

Also, is there another shard that may have visited Roshar and wandered off after leaving a spren behind? (I know that technically Adonalsium has visited, but I don't really dig the idea of adonspren - seems too powerful to me) Perhaps Dominion swung by to say hi millennia ago and left behind a godspren? Or any of the others before Odium really got into the swing of things?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But are voidspren the only kind of odium spren out there?

What you call odiumspren I call voidspren.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What you call odiumspren I call voidspren.

 

I can't disagree with that interpretation, but I'm thinking in the wider category sort of way. Honor's spren include the Stormfather and honorspren, so why wouldn't Odium have another type of spren separate from voidspren? (What I was calling Odiumspren was trying to include a godspren and voidspren under a single banner)

 

I know there's no evidence for it at this point, but it's more of a pattern thing. Cultivation has the Nightwatcher and Wyndle's spren-type. Honor as above, with Odium being the question. These three having the greatest influence over Roshar leads me to imagine them operating similarly.

 

I'm getting the feeling that having a Bondsmith team up with an Odium godspren is an unpopular opinion on the boards here, but I'm willing to stick to it to see if any insights shake out - even though I will inevitably be proven wrong according to my track record with theories!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems logical to me that if Bondsmiths do bond Godspren, there would be one for Cultivation, one for Honor, and one that was a blend of the two.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems logical to me that if Bondsmiths do bond Godspren, there would be one for Cultivation, one for Honor, and one that was a blend of the two.

 

The 3 Bondsmith limit leans me away from that idea - if there were blended ones to bond, then I'd imagine there'd be more than 3 Bondsmiths. One for each blend/mixture. I've seen interpretations where Stormfather is Honor 75% and Cultivation 25%, with Nightwatcher the reverse, but I don't really dig that idea.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems logical to me that if Bondsmiths do bond Godspren, there would be one for Cultivation, one for Honor, and one that was a blend of the two.

 

Right now the "superspren" that we've seen are Stormfather, Nightwatcher, and Cusciech, those are the 3 leading candidates right now. 

 

But are voidspren the only kind of odium spren out there?

 

The theory would come down to the idea of whether you count the Stormfather as an honorspren, or something greater? Hence, would an Odiumfather (terrible, terrible name. I have got to come up with something better) be a voidspren?

 

Hmmmm. The "Hateblender?" "Heartstriker?" "Worldbreaker?" "Cattlerustler?"

 

I don't think the Stormfather is an honorspren in the strictest terms. I guess I'm in the camp that each order of Radiants bonds a different spren type, so to make a Bondsmith, the stormfather couldn't therefore be an honorspren. He may be a spren of Honor, but I don't think those are the same. Like a square and a rectangle... ;)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure we have a WoB that each Order bonds with a different type of spren. And also one that (implies that) spren are either of Honor, of Cultivation, or mixed - spren from Odium or Adonalsium (presumably being much rarer) notwithstanding. 

Edited by Argent
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Bondsmith Oath that Dalinar gave (and thus, presumably, the oath that all Bondsmiths would give) seems very honor-ish: unite, bind, blah blah blah. That works great if Stormfather is a fragment of Honor, but far less if someone were to give the same oath to, say, a fragment of Cultivation, and it would almost be a lie if it were to a fragment of Odium (but maybe Odium-spren get down with that sort of thing).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know, unification has nothing to do with Honor in my mind. Taravangian wants to unite all of Roshar, but he doesn't strike me as very honorable. Damnation, Sadeas wants to unite all of Alethkar!

Edited by Argent
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I normally wouldn't equate binding with honor, either, however Syl does: "I bind things, Kaladin. I am honospren." ~ WoK, ch 67. In her mind, binding is at the heart of being honorspren, and if honorspren represent honor and are attracted by it, we can thus conclude that honor=binding (in the sense that Syl means it).

 

The problem with both Taravangian and Sadeas (and Kaladin when he is weakening his connection with Syl) is that they aren't trying to unite but rather dominate. It isn't unity if you kill everyone else until only you remain.

Edited by Thought
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It probably is godspren, but I doubt any of them would be Odium's spren. One of the Death Rattles from WoK says "Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns." Presumably, the third, currently unnamed Shard is the one who's spren is bonded by the third Bondsmith. Cusciech might be the last one, but the comments about Moelach and Nergaoul seem to imply that unique, powerful spren aren't necessarily the godspren (unless Nergaoul or Moelach is Odium's spren and something else accounts for whichever one is left over, Cusciech, and the Nightwatcher).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WoB is that Honor, Cultivation and Odium are the three Shards on Roshar - there's no mystery "third" Shard in addition to Odium. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I don't think there's some 1 to 1 Shard to Godspren correlation. There seems to be a bunch of Unmade, and they are all Godspren to Odium.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am skeptical that cuscicesh is a god spren. It doesn't communicate with anyone, a sharp contrast to the nightwatcher and Stormfather. On the othe hand, there is evidence of a stonespren the Shin worship that could be similar in power to the Stormfather.

My suspicion is the Stormfather is almost purely honor, the Earthmother is almost purely cultivation, and the Nightwatcher is a mix of cultivation and something else (honor, odium, Adonalsium, or combinations?).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WoB is that Honor, Cultivation and Odium are the three Shards on Roshar - there's no mystery "third" Shard in addition to Odium. 

damnation. I wonder what that was talking about, then.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about Nergaoul and Moeloch?

 

They are the Unmade that people refer to. I'm still hazy on what makes them Unmade (see what I did there?) so someone else will have to follow up if you've got questions about them!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.