Elena

A theory about Kaladin's family

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It reminds me of Kvothe mother in the Kingkiller chronicles. Probably Lirin had the opportunity to work in places with more "reward and prestige", but instead decide to stay in Heartstone. That's probably why , IMO, the relation with her fathers are bad.

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Interesting theory.

Now this tells me everything, and nothing.

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I think the conclusion is a good one, though I'm not sure the quote about Lirin meeting Hesina's parents is necessarily indicative of anything. It's worth noting that that particular passage is about Lirin's pessimism; in particular, she's saying he was extremely pessimistic before meeting her parents. That seems to imply that the outcome was better than he was expressing, which in turn doesn't really sound like her parents were particularly disapproving. It sounded more joking than anything.

 

It's also not really clear that Laral was rich herself; the wealth Roshone is interested in appears to be Sadeas's dowry:

 

 

Wistiow’s wealth—what was left of it—had gone to her. And when Roshone had been given authority over Hearthstone and granted the mansion and surrounding lands, Highprince Sadeas had given Laral a dowry in compensation.

 

However, we do have other indications that Hesina's parents are of means:

 

 

“We’ll keep spending the spheres,” Hesina said. “One every few weeks. Partially to live, though my family has offered supplies. More to keep Roshone thinking that we’re bending. And then, we send you away. Unexpectedly. You’ll be gone, the spheres safely in the hands of the ardents to use as a stipend during your years of study.”

 

and

 

 

“It’s not the same thing. You’ll see. There are so many things to explore, so many places your mind could go. The world is changing. My family’s most recent letter describes amazing fabrials, like pens that can write across great distances. It might not be long before men are taught to read.”

 

Hesina is also the only one who can read in Hearthstone, and is clearly well educated. She's also probably from Kharbranth:

 

 

“When you get to Kharbranth, stay there.” His voice was slurred. “Don’t get sucked back to this tiny, backward, foolish town. Don’t force your beautiful wife to live away from everyone else she’s ever known or loved.”

 

So it's quite likely that Hesina is from a well-to-do family, though whether or not it's a noble family is still a question.

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I'll buy it. I am starting to think that Hesina went to stay with her parents because of the oppression of Roshone, and they may or may not have sent Lirin away. I doubt it, but it might be a good reason why they live in Hearthstone rather than wherever Lirin lived. Maybe when Kaladin gets to Hearthstone and finds them gone, he has to go to Kholinar first, rather than go looking for them. Maybe this is the third oath? "I will protect those I must, rather than those whom I want" or something along those line. More poetic, probably.

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I've assumed this for a while. I think Kaladin's parents are in Kholinar with Hesina's parents. Losing the boys broke Lirin and they left Hearthstone (got to love that idealistic name) soon after the boys. That's the reason they never wrote Kaladin. They never got the letter.

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I just assumed Roshone ate the letter or something, or there was no return address. That fits MUCH better

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Hello...

 

This marks my second time actually writing something on these forums. Please forgive any transgressions that can be blamed on lack of experience. I had a sort of theory going along these lines for some time (since i read in WOK that Kaladin's name sounds like that of a lighteyed...why would they name him like a lighteyes...?), and now reading this topic see it being more possible than before.

 

In particular I find interesting the quote above where Hesina says "He always gets pessimistic at times like this"

 

Times like this seems more telling to me than at first glance since 'this' time, they are heading to meet a high-ranked lighteyed for the first time...

 

In short, I agree with the premise of this theory, that Hesina is of a lighteyed family. I then go further and propose that not only is she of a lighteyed family, but a very important lighteyed family. I had at some point thought she might be related to Navani herself, with the letter talking about fabrials and such... could still be if Kaladin never met that side of the family, and aunt Navani was never an aunt to him... but I don't know yet.

 

I may be grasping for connections, but always found it odd that we as readers have never been told the name of Dalinar's wife. We would have had a chance to hear it from Adolin at least... if not several other viewpoints that surely did not have it erased... but we never hear it. I would not (yet) go as far as saying that Hesina is Dalinar's late wife, that would imply faked death and half brothers and complications galore... but instead that Hesina is related to Dalinar's wife, and that it is close (sister perhaps). I think that some way or another, Adolin's mother's name will be telling... Something like Resina maybe...

 

I do not know if Hesina would have light or dark eyes, but i think she fell for Lirin, which would have been very bad, and ran away with him after some thorough drama... also, we know of the drops that change eye colour, maybe Hesina used those (or uses them regularly?)

 

Over the years, she probably would have gotten in touch again with her family and so they are in 'writing letters' terms again to explain Hesina's comments about offering help, or she could be in touch with some members of the family only.

 

I just like how the connection fits nicely between the two families... opens up nice things to come for cousins Adolin and Kaladin (those two names may be a clue...)

 

Thank you.

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I'm for it.  I certainly got the feeling Hesina's family didn't approve of Lirin.  

 

Hesina saying Lirin was pessimistic, etc. does not imply the meeting with her family didn't go poorly.  I think it did go poorly, at least from Lirin's perspective. 

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Hello...

 

This marks my second time actually writing something on these forums. Please forgive any transgressions that can be blamed on lack of experience. I had a sort of theory going along these lines for some time (since i read in WOK that Kaladin's name sounds like that of a lighteyed...why would they name him like a lighteyes...?), and now reading this topic see it being more possible than before.

 

In particular I find interesting the quote above where Hesina says "He always gets pessimistic at times like this"

 

Times like this seems more telling to me than at first glance since 'this' time, they are heading to meet a high-ranked lighteyed for the first time...

 

In short, I agree with the premise of this theory, that Hesina is of a lighteyed family. I then go further and propose that not only is she of a lighteyed family, but a very important lighteyed family. I had at some point thought she might be related to Navani herself, with the letter talking about fabrials and such... could still be if Kaladin never met that side of the family, and aunt Navani was never an aunt to him... but I don't know yet.

 

I may be grasping for connections, but always found it odd that we as readers have never been told the name of Dalinar's wife. We would have had a chance to hear it from Adolin at least... if not several other viewpoints that surely did not have it erased... but we never hear it. I would not (yet) go as far as saying that Hesina is Dalinar's late wife, that would imply faked death and half brothers and complications galore... but instead that Hesina is related to Dalinar's wife, and that it is close (sister perhaps). I think that some way or another, Adolin's mother's name will be telling... Something like Resina maybe...

 

I do not know if Hesina would have light or dark eyes, but i think she fell for Lirin, which would have been very bad, and ran away with him after some thorough drama... also, we know of the drops that change eye colour, maybe Hesina used those (or uses them regularly?)

 

Over the years, she probably would have gotten in touch again with her family and so they are in 'writing letters' terms again to explain Hesina's comments about offering help, or she could be in touch with some members of the family only.

 

I just like how the connection fits nicely between the two families... opens up nice things to come for cousins Adolin and Kaladin (those two names may be a clue...)

 

Thank you.

 

Interesting theory. My only issue is with Hair Color. Alethi black breeds true and the more pureblooded you are the more black your hair is. If you have any other blood in your family, your hair will have another color in it.  Adolin and Renarin's mother gave them lockes of blond in their black. If Hesina were related to Shshshsh.... then Kaladin would also have blond in his hair.

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Hello...

 

This marks my second time actually writing something on these forums. Please forgive any transgressions that can be blamed on lack of experience. I had a sort of theory going along these lines for some time (since i read in WOK that Kaladin's name sounds like that of a lighteyed...why would they name him like a lighteyes...?), and now reading this topic see it being more possible than before.

 

 

I just like how the connection fits nicely between the two families... opens up nice things to come for cousins Adolin and Kaladin (those two names may be a clue...)

I think that Kaladin being related to Adolin might be too much of a stretch - I don't think Hesina's family connection go quite that high (I was thinking someone of Laral's social level) but it's a nice catch about Kaladin's name - I'd forgotten about that.

Thanks for pointing it out - it might be further evidence of his family having lighteyed relations. I'd just thought it was yet another consequence of Kaladin's family being social climbers - meant in a completely nice way, of course.

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I like this theory, especially as it would throw another wrench into Kaladin's almost irrational hatred of all lighteyes (even though he is one now basically).  Wouldn't it be quite humorous if he decides to fly home looking for his parents, finds out they went back to live with Hesina's family in Kholinar, he flies there, finds the family, and it turns out they are lighteyes?  So basically Kaladin is a half-lighteyes?  That would hurt Kaladin's brain.

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I like this theory, especially as it would throw another wrench into Kaladin's almost irrational hatred of all lighteyes (even though he is one now basically).  Wouldn't it be quite humorous if he decides to fly home looking for his parents, finds out they went back to live with Hesina's family in Kholinar, he flies there, finds the family, and it turns out they are lighteyes?  So basically Kaladin is a half-lighteyes?  That would hurt Kaladin's brain.

 

And we all know that Kaladin could use a bit more irony in his life. It seems like a decent theory, though it could also be that she is "just" the daughter of a rich merchant (first nahn parents) too who still had similar feelings about Lirin...

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I really like this theory that Hesina, and therefore Kaladin, had lighteyed relatives. Upvote!

 

The other theory that Hesina is related to either Gavilar's or Dalinar's wife is interesting, but it requires that either Gavilar or Dalinar, probably at the height of his power, married someone from a mixed family (i.e. a lighteyes with a darkeyed parent). That doesn't seem very likely to me, although I admit that it is possible.

 

Let me propose an alternative theory: What if Hesina is from a mixed Oldblood family? We now know that "Oldblood" is the term used for members of the Alethi dynasty that ruled prior to the most recent breakup of Alethkar into separate princedoms (before the Kholin-led reunification). A darkeyed citizen marrying the darkeyed daughter of a lighteyed Oldblood probably wouldn't cause too much of a scandal now that a different dynasty is in place.

 

The reason why I thought of this theory is because I've been wondering what the significance of the Oldbloods is in Brandon's story, and an interesting possibility came to me. What if the last "Oldblood" king had been a good one, a king who believed in Nohadon's teachings and who strived to rule virtuously? What if the fall of their dynasty was simply because the Alethi highprinces could not tolerate a peace-loving king and therefore warred against him? More importantly, what if that king was chosen by the Stormfather to be the first recipient of Honor's final message, the first "modern" proto-Bondsmith, but was too weak to enforce Honor's wishes and ultimately failed?

 

Finally, what if Kaladin was descended from that king? Jezrien, Herald of the Windrunners, is also called the Herald of Kings. If Kaladin is an Oldblood, it might be a viable story choice to make Kaladin king in the future, bringing back to the throne not just the Oldbloods but also the Knights Radiant who ruled the Silver Kingdoms in ancient times.

 

Edit: As for Jasnah, Dalinar, and Renarin, members of the current dynasty who are also Radiant, they could still be monarchs in a future re-established Silver Kingdoms. They, Kaladin, and six others (perhaps including Shallan) could all rule from Urithiru, where the thrones of the Silver Kingdoms are found.

Edited by skaa
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I agree that Kaladin's mother is probably from a wealthy and influential family, but I don't think that family is Alethi.

It seems like her family have some wealth at their disposal and because Hesina is a darkeyed woman, I'd suggest she's from one of the countries to the east, where darkeyes can be just as noble/kings as lighteyes. We know that eye-color discrimination is present only in Veden countries.

It's just too much if everyone turns out to be Alethi noble/prince/whatever...

Edited by Ren
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The other theory that Hesina is related to either Gavilar's or Dalinar's wife is interesting, but it requires that either Gavilar or Dalinar, probably at the height of his power, married someone from a mixed family (i.e. a lighteyes with a darkeyed parent). That doesn't seem very likely to me, although I admit that it is possible.

 

 

 

I speculated on this somewhere else...  but do we know that Gavilar and Dalinar were initially lighteyed or darkeyed?  From the books I always assumed they were always highly ranked (from the way they talk etc)...  however if bonding to Shardblades lightens the eyes - could they not have been darkeyed soldiers who won shards?  and then when one of them got them, he helped the other one win a set?  we know the two of them together were great warriors and forged the kingdom together.  Dalinar also doesn't have a problem raising a darkeyed spearman above his station, and treats all his men with respect regardless of eye colour (yes I know he follows the codes)... I don't know if this is even likely, could just be me wondering because we haven't yet seen any real flashbacks from Dalinar's younger days...  and I like the possibility that the lighteyed king Gavilar was initially darkeyed...

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There hasnt been a darkeyed person who claimed a shardblase in recent years according to kaladin and adolin when wondering if moash will get light eyes. They gave a figure which I dont know but it definately predates gavilar

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IMO the only reason why Hesina's parents would possibly have disliked her marriage to Kaladin's father 

is got to be that they considered themselves to have better social status. 

 

You need to watch more sitcoms ;)

 

I think you are all infected with Alethi snobbery!

A powerful, intelligent and plot-important character? Well he's got to be at least semi-Lighteyes secretly, right?! 

You all make me sick!  ;)

Edited by Eejit
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I speculated on this somewhere else...  but do we know that Gavilar and Dalinar were initially lighteyed or darkeyed?  From the books I always assumed they were always highly ranked (from the way they talk etc)...  however if bonding to Shardblades lightens the eyes - could they not have been darkeyed soldiers who won shards?  and then when one of them got them, he helped the other one win a set?  we know the two of them together were great warriors and forged the kingdom together.  Dalinar also doesn't have a problem raising a darkeyed spearman above his station, and treats all his men with respect regardless of eye colour (yes I know he follows the codes)... I don't know if this is even likely, could just be me wondering because we haven't yet seen any real flashbacks from Dalinar's younger days...  and I like the possibility that the lighteyed king Gavilar was initially darkeyed...

 

you're forgetting that when Dalinar broke his bond with his Shardblade, his eye color remained the same (which IMO, should have reverted back to its original, though I don't think we know for sure whether the eye-color thing is a permanent change or not... I mean, bonding a 'dead' Shard is sort of like a much weaker 'fake' Nahel bond, if you get what I mean.)

 

also, as was ponited out, Kaladin says that it has been a long time since the last time a Darkeyes won a Shardblade.

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I seem to recall the implication that Hesina talks like a lighteyes, too. As in she was able to talk circles around darkeyes which is a quality that Kaladin repeatedly associates with educated lighteyes.

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Kaladin has not known a lot of educated darkeyes...

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Do we actually know where Lirin trained? I think the only thing we know is he didn't have a formal training but learned from another surgeon, perhaps in Kharbranth. We also know, that Mr. T's wife is an ardent and those are treated as neither lighteyed nor dark. So if she were a darkeyed ardent, she very well might have darkeyed children with Taravangian, like Hesina.

 

Plus, we need something to bind Taravangian's plotline to that of the others :D

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Do we actually know where Lirin trained? I think the only thing we know is he didn't have a formal training but learned from another surgeon, perhaps in Kharbranth. We also know, that Mr. T's wife is an ardent and those are treated as neither lighteyed nor dark. So if she were a darkeyed ardent, she very well might have darkeyed children with Taravangian, like Hesina.

 

Plus, we need something to bind Taravangian's plotline to that of the others :D

 

He didn't train in Kharbranth, even from another surgeon. The only reason he ever travelled there was because he worked as a courier for a while.

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Well he had to train under someone, otherwise I doubt he would have been as good a surgeon as we have seen in the books. And since we do not have any proof to the contrary, I am going to assume that was in Kharbranth, just not the expensive tutelage in the hospitals but under some surgeon. 

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