[OB] Renewing the Oathpact: Let's Not.

[Wander89]

But what does Reborn mean? Reborn how? Incarnations? New bodies?

[Agent34]

40 minutes ago, Wander89 said:

But what does Reborn mean? Reborn how? Incarnations? New bodies?

Their spirits dwell within the storm (presumably) and find a body to hijack when it passes.

[Wander89]

1 minute ago, Agent34 said:

Their spirits dwell within the storm (presumably) and find a body to hijack when it passes.

I thought so, possibly. I wonder who, perhaps, that would be.

[+Child of Hodor]

20 hours ago, Scion of the Mists said:

But the Fused don't get sent back to Braize, they are reborn in the Everstorm.  The Heralds going back to Braize wouldn't accomplish anything.  

Not yet, but I'm assuming the Everstorm will be dealt with by the end of book 5. That seems to be the most urgent threat and I can't see a front 5 resolution that doesn't involve getting rid of it or neutralizing it. Any Oathpact speculation relies on the Everstorm going away. 

Back 5 may be about something totally different. I'd be a little surprised if they kill Rayse in the Front 5, but he is all over book 3 and will be around for two more ~1,000 page books at least. I don't know if he can be the main threat for 7,000 more pages. 

Maybe a new Odium vessel, maybe O+C as a strange new threat. H+O = Justice would be a good way to mitigate Odium, so I don't think we get that front 5 but maybe. Dalinar as an honorable, but wrathful new Shard would be interesting. His arc seems headed this way. https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/83869-dalinars-future/?do=findComment&comment=823468

 

If any of those things happen I don't think that the Oathpact will matter as much. Killing and splintering all the Shards to be the most powerful thing in the Cosmere is more of a Rayse thing than Odium. A new Odium may take a different approach, which could still be a threat, but a different one than a cycle of invasions. 

[Wintersu]

40 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Not yet, but I'm assuming the Everstorm will be dealt with by the end of book 5. That seems to be the most urgent threat and I can't see a front 5 resolution that doesn't involve getting rid of it or neutralizing it. 

I can see an end to book 5, ending in the defeat of Odium’s Champion. This would delay Odium for a time, as told by Honor

Theres no way of knowing for sure right now, but I suspect Odium remains after the first 5 books are done

Whether the Everstorm is ended at the same time... again, it’s a little early to see for certain. You may be right

[WhiteEmporer]

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

How many books are going to be in The Stormlight Archive?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Two five book arcs. Five will be an ending, and then six through ten will kind of be another story.

source

Odium being delayed a bit till book 6 doesn't sound like "another story"

I feel like Brandon had something catastrophically climactic at the end of book five that will make the next five look very different. Maybe Odium (or Rayse) dies. Maybe something else. But I suspect the back five will be more than just a continuation of Radiants verses Odium. 

[RShara]

1 minute ago, WhiteEmporer said:

Odium being delayed a bit till book 6 doesn't sound like "another story"

I feel like Brandon had something catastrophically climactic at the end of book five that will make the next five look very different. Maybe Odium (or Rayse) dies. Maybe something else. But I suspect the back five will be more than just a continuation of Radiants verses Odium. 

My opinion is that the front 5 will involve uniting Roshar and solving the problems of the Fused, the singers and the squabbling nations, then the back five will involve more direct confrontations with Odium.

[+Invocation]

10 minutes ago, WhiteEmporer said:

Odium being delayed a bit till book 6 doesn't sound like "another story"

I feel like Brandon had something catastrophically climactic at the end of book five that will make the next five look very different. Maybe Odium (or Rayse) dies. Maybe something else. But I suspect the back five will be more than just a continuation of Radiants verses Odium. 

I have a tendency to agree with RShara on this. The front five being more interpersonal and international conflicts, while the latter half being more people v. Odium kind of thing.

[Inky]

I have no idea how Back Half is going to play out but I can be fairly certain it won't be a complete continuation of the front half story 

[Yvainnie]

Okay if Oathpact doesn't bind Odium why does he go to all that troubles of killing Heralds?

[Agent34]

To free his forces. The Heralds keep the Fused and voidspren bound.

[Yvainnie]

3 minutes ago, Agent34 said:

To free his forces. The Heralds keep the Fused and voidspren bound.

but they are free now and returning in everstorm

[Agent34]

19 minutes ago, Yvainnie said:

but they are free now and returning in everstorm

The more powerful of their number have not yet woken up. I assume without the Oathpact Odium will have more room to move, so to speak.

[Yvainnie]

1 minute ago, Agent34 said:

The more powerful of their number have not yet woken up. I assume without the Oathpact Odium will have more room to move, so to speak.

or maybe dagger which kills them could work like hemalurgic spike and he is building a new type of soldiers. But still, I don't know why go to all this trouble when he already seems to have all the advantages possible. 

[Config2]

On 4/2/2019 at 8:24 PM, RShara said:

My opinion is that the front 5 will involve uniting Roshar and solving the problems of the Fused, the singers and the squabbling nations, then the back five will involve more direct confrontations with Odium.

I don't think so. If we look at some other "connected but separate" series, we have a good baseline.

1. Star Wars prequels to originals. We have cross-over for sure, and we have the same bad guy. But two things happen; first, evil wins. That opens a path for a resistance type situation. Second, we have Darth Vader switching sides and providing a different focus for the Original Series. Also these are prequels, which means that there is a need for the bad guy to be present in the originals. He isn't even the primary villain until Revenge either, just sort of similar to Thanos.

2. The Hobbit to LOTRs. We have hints at a greater evil on the horizon, but we don't actually do anything with it. Some of the characters migrate into the second series, but the primary story is completely finished. So far there have been no hints at a threat greater than Odium, so this style seems unlikely.

3. MCU. Thanos gets some screen time for 75% of the movies (movies in the "main" story) without being a primary antagonist. He is in the background, but not the primary target. When he finally gets going, he wins. Then we have some timey-whimey whibbly-whobbly to reverse that (which was great, but also a cop out in a way).

None of these three have the primary antagonist defined in the 1st series, then only have their second in command or representative defeated at the end of the first series. From sequel to sequel, sure, but from series to series we don't get that kind of lack of resolution. Sanderson doesn't have to follow the same narrative structure, but it seems really unlikely that he would have his endgame villain introduced in full power (not actually, but burning Dalinar's mind is close enough) 1/4th of the way through the series. I would be very very surprised if Rayse is still around, either because he is dead or fled from Roshar by the end of series 1, unless of course he "wins" the front 5. 

Him winning the front five seems most likely of these to me; we'd have the Humans fleeing Roshar, with Dalinar as a fully ascended Unity; and Cultivation shattered. The back half could be the invasion of Roshar by the Radiants and interplanetary allies. This doesn't even seem especially likely. 

So I guess to rank the probability of front five resolutions

1. Something we haven't guessed yet

2. Odium wins

3. Odium flees, forces defeated

4. Odium is shattered, forces defeated

5. Odium's forces are defeated, Odium remains.

[Calderis]

The Everstorm is a stopgap. If it's defeated, and the Oathpact is still on place, and per WoB and the others feeling Jezrien's death, it is despite what the Heralds think. 

Taking out the Heralds removes the problem at its root, even if the Everstorm should fail, before even accounting for any possible gain from the gems in the dagger. 

Odium is just being smart.