[Words of Radiance Tour] Chicago Signing, Mar 22

[Bloodfalcon]

Thanks for doing this, Argent. It looks like a lot of work goes into these signing posts. 

The two answers that caught my attention the most were the Windrunners-squires information and, surprisingly, confirmation that Ash is Shallash. We kind of knew that, but I was still very surprised that he confirmed it. I'm excited to see all of the other specialty powers of the other Orders. Anytime there is another unique quality to each, I get happier and happier with the idea as a whole. 

[Moogle]

Except, I am no longer convinced any of this is true. Ruin's magic system, Hemalurgy, might not have anything to do with metal - it looks like a Metallic Art to us, because it's limited to only Scadrial, where metal is the focus of all magic. But what if Ruin had went to Nalthis instead of Scadrial? Awakening is a very metal unfriendly magic system - would the Hemalurgic spikes there depend not on the type of material / metal they are made of, but on their color? I very much think so. Because, remember, Hemalurgy can affect all magic systems, not just Allomancy - so it seems strange to bind it to the same focus as Allomancy. It's restrictive.

 

Roshar... maybe. We have Brandon on record telling us that one way to count the magic systems on Roshar is three sets of ten. Sounds pretty solid, but he is also pretty sneaky.

 

I am thinking along the same lines as you here, but it raises issues. (Also, I'd argue that you'd need to make spikes out of animal material on Nalthis. Life is the reservoir there, not color.)

 

So... let's say we can use gemstone spikes on Roshar. It makes sense. A sapphire spike can steal a Windrunner Nahel bond, a ruby spike can steal a Dustbringer's Nahel bond, etc. Perfect sense.

 

Why can't gemstones be used on Scadrial? Well, because the reservoir is different on each planet. Okay... so what happens when you try Hemalurgy in space? What happens when you bring a Hemalurgic metal spike with you to Roshar? Does it suddenly lose its power?

 

So what happens if a Mistborn ends up on Roshar and you want to spike him? Can you still use metal? If a Surgebinder is on Roshar, what type of metal do you spike him with (besides the obvious atium)? Or can you use a gemstone on him?

 

There's a lot of confusing issues raised. A possible solution is that metals work everywhere in the Cosmere, as Ruin is Invested on Scadrial, but you can use other materials on other planets. The only requirement is that the material used must be able to have Investiture 'stick' to it, like life on Nalthis or gemstones on Roshar. I'm just not satisfied by any of the answers.

 

But... with the confirmation that Honor has a thing for ten, I think I'm willing to go all in and say that Hemalurgy is likely not limited to just the sixteen metals. That's Preservation's thing, not Ruin's. (Sidenote: this means Voidbinding could very well be part-Honor.) I think gemstones should be able to be used as spikes on Roshar. I'm very uncertain though (Weiry did a good job trying to convince me otherwise in chat).

Edited March 27, 2014 by Moogle

[Argent]

I always imagined you need a spike of material appropriate for the magic you want to steal. So it wouldn't matter where you are spiking a Windrunner, you need a sapphire spike. 

[Moogle]

I always imagined you need a spike of material appropriate for the magic you want to steal. So it wouldn't matter where you are spiking a Windrunner, you need a sapphire spike. 

 

And what if you don't want to steal their magic? What if you want to steal the memories of someone from Roshar? Can you use metal for that, or, because they're Invested by a different Shard, do they need to have gemstone spikes too? What if they they're Invested from a Shard who hasn't Invested in a planet and you want to steal that?

 

Atium works for everything, but I don't like that solution. Using god-metals feels... unfair.

[Argent]

Yea, atium is a shortcut. I'd say that if you are going to steal an attribute, you need a spike made of the respective Shard's focus or something. But non-Invested Shards are a hairy business - maybe any material would work for "their" people, and maybe none will.