Nohadon

(BoM Spoilers) How Kelsier came back

11 posts in this topic

So we know as of BoM that Kelsier is still surviving, and is the sovereign, someone who is insanely powerful, and after reading the Mistborn adventure game rulebook on hemalurgy, I think I know how he got a physical body.

Mistborn adventure game says this about copper hemalurgy:

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IN HEMALURGY

Copper spikes store intelligence and memory. They’re very rarely used on humans due to the terrible dementia and frequent insanity produced as shards of a stored soul shred a recipient’s mind.

Kandra with the Blessing of Presence sport a pair of copper spikes, which sharpen their mind without mental instability.

Copper Spikes: A Copper spike increases your Wits score by 1, to a maximum of 10. However, both your Charm and Spirit scores drop by 1 for each Copper spike you receive (rather than just your Spirit). Additionally, you may hear voices or recall memories that seem familiar yet oddly alien. This effect is especially common when you encounter pieces of the life left behind by the spike’s original victim

Blessings: The Blessing of Presence grants enhanced intelligence and memory, increasing your Wits score by 2, to a maximum of 8.

My theory is that Kelsier got spook to  Find his old body (or a random guy), bring it into the cognitive realm, and spike kelsier's cognitive shadow, and kelsier's corpse, together, 'stealing' the memories and experiences from Kelsier's CS and transferring them to the vessel, and with some healing from unsealed metalminds (which we know he knows about) He has a physical body.

Mistborn Adventure game is soft cannon, look at the second last post on this subreddit.

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Alexflagg

Hey folks - MAG creator/brand manager here. The "soft canon" description is the closest description I've got for where we are, canon-wise. Our original agreement with Brandon and Dragonsteel was that were were canonical, but as Brandon's career has ramped up and we've caught up to his work, we've pivoted to a canon-until-we-are-contradicted position. That was especially important when we were working with the Alloy of Law supplement, since we see so little of Twinborn but needed to flesh out Compounding and powers to create a full slate of options for players. This keeps us from hemming Brandon in when he's working on new stuff, and makes it easier for us to flex a bit to accommodate the needs of a fun game. Not incidentally, this is pretty much the same relationship that West End Games had with Lucasfilm when they created much of what we know as the Star Wars Extended Universe/Legends material today.

That said, we DO work directly with Peter Ahlstrom and the rest of the canon team with each and every thing we create for the setting, with them and approving our text as we move forward. Typically, they don't really have any issues with the stuff we're doing with the original trilogy/TLR era, so the canon is a bit more "firm" there than it is in the Alloy era. But we do have official support, and Word of Brandon/Dragonsteel always trumps anything we assert.

I personally believe that they managed to somehow restore and recover kelsier's corpse, as it bears the scars of hathsin as seen in the epilogue of Bands of Mourning. Additionally, Kelsier has no qualms about the use of hemalurgy (He has a steel spike in his right eye for harmony's sake!)

So what do you guys think? Really interested to hear your imput.

Relevant WoB:

Just now, Lord Mistborn Skybreaker said:

iwinUlose2
In Mistborn 3, What happened to Kelsier's bones, and will they play any significance in any of the sequels?

Brandon Sanderson
The bones survived the events of the last book. We might see them again. Speaking of relic-like items, Sazed's rings survived as well. We might see those again.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/202/#e5951

Edited by Nohadon
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I think this is interesting but kelsier's corpse was eaten by OreSeur so it might not be his original body. But also I am not really sure how identity works and could effect this. the use of a copper spike on his cognitive shadow could work. Ultimately we will find out a little more when the Hemallurgic Table comes out later this year 

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Sadly, MAG is not canon. They tweaked things and made up things for it to work, including stuff that Brandon hasn't answered/canonized yet. I know they worked with DS to make it as close as possible, but I'm uncomfortable with us using anything from it. We're going to get a hemalurgy table released soon, which should answer some of these questions, at least.

Kelsier's original body was digested, and Oreseur used his bones to impersonate him. He hid the bones somewhere and then the world ended. Unless Sazed took care to not destroy the bones, I think they're pretty much gone.

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1 hour ago, RShara said:

Sadly, MAG is not canon. They tweaked things and made up things for it to work, including stuff that Brandon hasn't answered/canonized yet. I know they worked with DS to make it as close as possible, but I'm uncomfortable with us using anything from it. We're going to get a hemalurgy table released soon, which should answer some of these questions, at least.

Kelsier's original body was digested, and Oreseur used his bones to impersonate him. He hid the bones somewhere and then the world ended. Unless Sazed took care to not destroy the bones, I think they're pretty much gone.

Actually, we know that kelsier’s bones are intact. 

iwinUlose2
In Mistborn 3, What happened to Kelsier's bones, and will they play any significance in any of the sequels?

Brandon Sanderson
The bones survived the events of the last book. We might see them again. Speaking of relic-like items, Sazed's rings survived as well. We might see those again.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/202/#e5951

Edited by Lord Mistborn Skybreaker
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Hmmm cool. But that's still the bones, not the body :)

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Kelsier's bones + Kelsier's Cognitive Shadow + mystery hemalurgic spike + Mistwraith = The Sovereign???

It's certainly one theory for how he found himself that new string at least. xD

6 hours ago, Nohadon said:

I personally believe that they managed to somehow restore and recover kelsier's corpse, as it bears the scars of hathsin as seen in the epilogue of Bands of Mourning. Additionally, Kelsier has no qualms about the use of hemalurgy (He has a steel spike in his right eye for harmony's sake!)

The scars don't require that Kelsier's original body be intact (as we know it isn't) because Kelsier's self-perception would make any body he obtained change to match his Spiritual template filtered through his Cognitive self-image, which would include his iconic scars. It's the same reason why Kaladin's slave brands don't heal; he sees them as a part of himself and so whenever he uses Stormlight healing they're treated as such rather than as a wound to be healed (contra Lopen who doesn't have a similar Cognitive 'filter' so he was able to regrow his arm). It's the same ultimate reason that Savantism can't be 'healed' by normal methods, your Spiritual template is the ultimate arbiter of who you are and as far as it's concerned there's nothing wrong with you. Kelsier sees himself as having those scars, therefore any body he obtains will shift to match his Spiritual template and then his Cognitive filter will add those scars.

Edited by Weltall
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So these are the facts we know:
Kelsier's cognitive shadow is still around.

Kelsier's bones are still around.

Kelsier has a body WITH THE SCARS OF HATHSIN.

He has in-depth knowledge on allomancy, feruchemy and hemalurgy, and has held the power of preservation, briefly expanding his mind and giving him realmatic knowledge.

He has someone (spook) that he can talk to and get him to to favours.

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See above, I edited in an explanation for why the scars are ultimately irrelevant that you might not have seen when you were typing that up.

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I didn't see that earlier, oops, and that would make sense, he always saw the scars as part of himself, so I imagine (if the body gets altered in any way, shape or form) that the scars would stay.

Also, a random tinfoil hat theory just occurred to me (please ignore this); What if Kelsier is using SPOOK's body? that would be nuts

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8 minutes ago, Nohadon said:

I didn't see that earlier, oops, and that would make sense, he always saw the scars as part of himself, so I imagine (if the body gets altered in any way, shape or form) that the scars would stay.

Also, a random tinfoil hat theory just occurred to me (please ignore this); What if Kelsier is using SPOOK's body? that would be nuts

He is not. 

Quote

Questioner

In Bands of Mourning, we learned that the Sovereign, who they confused as being the Lord Ruler, came after the Catacendre. [He] was their god, was their king and god. And then Kelsier looking for a string. Is the spike somehow connecting Kelsier's soul to Spook's body.

Brandon Sanderson

No, good question. It is connecting his soul with his body, his current body, but it is not Spook's body. That's a great theory.

source

 

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35 minutes ago, Weltall said:

Kelsier's bones + Kelsier's Cognitive Shadow + mystery hemalurgic spike + Mistwraith = The Sovereign???

It's certainly one theory for how he found himself that new string at least. xD

The scars don't require that Kelsier's original body be intact (as we know it isn't) because Kelsier's self-perception would make any body he obtained change to match his Spiritual template filtered through his Cognitive self-image, which would include his iconic scars. It's the same reason why Kaladin's slave brands don't heal; he sees them as a part of himself and so whenever he uses Stormlight healing they're treated as such rather than as a wound to be healed (contra Lopen who doesn't have a similar Cognitive 'filter' so he was able to regrow his arm). It's the same ultimate reason that Savantism can't be 'healed' by normal methods, your Spiritual template is the ultimate arbiter of who you are and as far as it's concerned there's nothing wrong with you. Kelsier sees himself as having those scars, therefore any body he obtains will shift to match his Spiritual template and then his Cognitive filter will add those scars.

If Kelsier was spiked into a Mistwraith the cognitive aspect wouldn't matter. He could change his appearance at will. He might heal based on the cognitive self, but he could just alter his appearance. You also might end up with weird issues here. A mistwraith has its own cognitive identity and spiritual template that may interfere.

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