SzethIsBadAsHell

ghostbloods
(OB) what Ghostbloods want with ....

32 posts in this topic

With such a Powerful shard (Odium), his eternal agents (The Fused), it easy for us not to see a sleeping Giant : the ghostbloods. They seem all knowing , way too informed , a pragmatic to the point it’s scary! 

      Now they want Shallan to convince Ska-Amat to come to their side? This is the. Unmade that was reputed the most feared by the Radiants . What the heck do the Ghostbloods want with SJ ? Whats even scarier how do they even know that Shallan made contact with her?  Nobody was on that platform But Azure, Shallan, Adolin, Kaladin , and maybe some members of bridge 4 and maybe few freed house guards . Who could of got word back to them ? Yo shallan is talking to an unmade named Sja-anat. We should look into that .

      At first I thought this smells just like the set on Scadrial ! I started wondering if the Ghostbloods are being ran by Autonomy . Unless the ghostbloods have a shard behind them what do they have to offer Sja-Anat. If Odium takes back his power she is destroyed. Unless she find another shard  to fuel her life essence. 

      Anyways I looked up WoB and only found one that. Says they have communicated with the Ghostbloods. So perhaps that’s not it.

       Then I thought about Kelsier ! He might know a way to keep Ska-Anat. Tethered . So I searched him on WoB and ran into a wall Of Rafo .

     So without doing a bunch of speculating . Let’s just ask Two questions . What do the Ghostbloods want with Sj ? And are the Ghostbloods setting themselves up to Rule. Roshar once the battle of shards is over? 

       Thoughts?

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I made a post related to this if you want to check it out.

I posit that the mechanism through which SA corrupts higher spren is similar to the mechanism involved in editing an individual's spiritweb. Cracks in the spiritweb allow a nahel bond to be formed, thus granting you the power of surge binding. I believe that SA could be used to sidestep the extreme emotional trauma typically required to cause these cracks in the spiritweb, giving someone a much easier path to becoming a radiant. The Ghostbloods have been seen to have many investiture related artifacts from various shardworlds so it would make sense if they were trying to give themselves an easy path to surgebinding, which is why I believe they want SA.

Some Mistborn Era 1 spoilers:

Spoiler

Ingesting Lerasium grants any human Mistborn abilities. This bypasses the snapping that is required to become an Allomancer. Every magic system we have seen has some sort of snapping threshold that varies from world to world. In world logic suggests that you must experience trauma to cause cracks in your spiritweb which cause the Investiture to pour in, filling those cracks in the spiritweb. The action of Lerasium and some WoB's imply that trauma is not the only way to manipulate your spiritweb.

 

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A moderately popular theory is that the Ghostbloods are led by Kelsier, which would explain their high ambitions; he was never afraid to aim high either.

Oh, as for Sja-Anat's power, she's not fueled by Odium, she's a separate Splinter, sentient Investiture, and doesn't need him to live.

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59 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

A moderately popular theory is that the Ghostbloods are led by Kelsier, which would explain their high ambitions; he was never afraid to aim high either.

Oh, as for Sja-Anat's power, she's not fueled by Odium, she's a separate Splinter, sentient Investiture, and doesn't need him to live.

That’s interesting ! I thought all the unmade were his creations . I still think the Ghostbloods are way more dangerous than they appear. They make the Set look like school children imo. I’m not sure why Shallan hasn’t told Dalinar about them yet, she has her brothers back now! 

      The Harlem Worldhoppers theory is intriguing . And it has some merit. After all Renarin is proof that u can still bond a corrupted spren and his powers may be greater than other truthwatchers ( if he is a. Truthwatcher). It’s interesting to know what his ideals are or if he has to have any? Could there goal be Radiants not bound by Oaths . Dangerous , very dangerous . Especially since surgebinding Is predicted to destroy Roshar , what would happen is Radiants didn’t have to be restricted by ideals?

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1 minute ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

That’s interesting ! I thought all the unmade were his creations .

They are, but that doesn't mean he needs to 'fuel' them; once they exist, they can live by themselves like spren.

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That would explain alot since he started with taking down what they thought of as a god. Now Kelsier's more or less immortal, I doubt his ambitions have diminished.

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, Leyrann said:

They are, but that doesn't mean he needs to 'fuel' them; once they exist, they can live by themselves like spren.

I do wonder if the unMade will exist if Odium leaves the planet. If the unMade figure out that they are disposable, maybe more of them will try and revolt. Odium didn't leave power behind on Sel, so it makes sense that the unMade will be ununMade if and when (and I do think when) Odium defeats Cultivation. 

As for the Ghostbloods, I do believe the theory involving Scadrial. However, I don't see an easy way for Brandon to make this society accessible for non Mistborn readers. Warbreaker is one easy book to read to figure out the Azure connection, but a Scadrial connection would take a reader 6+ books for true understanding to take place.

Edited by teknopathetic
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21 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

I do wonder if the unMade will exist if Odium leaves the planet. If the unMade figure out that they are disposable, maybe more of them will try and revolt. Odium didn't leave power behind on Sel, so it makes sense that the unMade will be ununMade if and when (and I do think when) Odium defeats Cultivation. 

I think that's exactly why Sja-anat wants to defect. I understand completely why the Radiants would question her motives, but she's with Rayse for millenia. She composed, at least in part, of his essence. I think she realizes that victory for Odium means that he will willfully withdraw his power from the system, killing her and all of her children. Perhaps the other sapient Unmade also realize and don't care. Perhaps her children are the real thing she wishes to save, and not herself. 

Regardless I doubt the non-sapient ones have the intellect to determine that. Nergaoul for instance. I doubt the thrill has the capacity to revolt. 

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BAM led a war so I doubt she's loyal or content playing second fiddle

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5 minutes ago, Angsos said:

BAM led a war so I doubt she's loyal or content playing second fiddle

She led the same war as Odium, in his absence. She continued working towards his goals. 

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Yes but I mean she wasn't being directed by him personally, so to speak.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

I think that's exactly why Sja-anat wants to defect. I understand completely why the Radiants would question her motives, but she's with Rayse for millenia. She composed, at least in part, of his essence. I think she realizes that victory for Odium means that he will willfully withdraw his power from the system, killing her and all of her children. Perhaps the other sapient Unmade also realize and don't care. Perhaps her children are the real thing she wishes to save, and not herself. 

Regardless I doubt the non-sapient ones have the intellect to determine that. Nergaoul for instance. I doubt the thrill has the capacity to revolt. 

I also think that the Made may have been loyal to the Singers, and perhaps they went over to Odium when the Singers switched Gods. Sja-anat may be trying to save her people from Odium now instead of from the humans. 

Now what the Ghostbloods want with the unmade is another question, but the group certainly does seem knowledgable. I wonder if the Ghostbloods took the unmade living in the tower. 

Edited by teknopathetic
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@teknopathetic Let's say the Ghostbloods took the Unmade living in the tower. How would you accomplish such a thing? Do you talk to the spren and convince it to come with you? Can you do that? Do you bond with it? Can you move it off of Roshar? Are the Ghostbloods trying to take over Roshar and they thought the way to do that is to take an Unmade? The Ghostbloods are the most intriguing secret society out of the ones we have seen so far.

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It all depends on who their leader is.

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I think my favorite theory is Kelsier being the leader. Something about the Ghostbloods screams Kelsier and his crewmates. If Kelsier is indeed the leader, ooh boy.

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I think they are positioning themselves to take control after the war . Let’s say Odium wins, he is freed . He splinter cultivation. Then leaves and the few humans and Singers left form nations out the rags . The ghostbloods step forward as established heirarchy ready to take control 

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@SzethIsBadAsHell Oh man, that is the perfect set up. Regardless if Cultivation is splintered or not, humans and the Singers will be setback. Odium isn't playing around. This is the ideal opportunity for a powerful group like the Ghostbloods to take over. They have crucial intelligence that we have seen so far. Imagine what other intelligence they have; maybe things as simple advanced irrigation techniques. Historically, Rosharans have lost much for the Desolations. The group and/or people that comes on top will be the ones with information. Especially, if Jasnah gets her way and the Heralds are killed. As of now Taln is useless, he's on repeat. And we know that Jezrien is dead. This is so cool!!

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I would love if they were just the semi-moral agents of Cultivation. She wouldn't need to be as honourable as certain other shards in getting things accomplished. It would be even more interesting is she had this group for a while but Honour knew nothing of it. 

Edited by teknopathetic
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28 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

I would love if they were just the semi-moral agents of Cultivation. She wouldn't need to be as honourable as certain other shards in getting things accomplished. It would be even more interesting is she had this group for a while but Honour knew nothing of it. 

I do think things were not all rosy between Honor and Cultivation as Honor slipped into insanity. However, the single biggest piece of evidence against the Ghostbloods being agents of Cultivation is that Cultivation is very much opposed to Odium while the Ghostbloods are sitting on the fence with their whole'We must not let either side gain dominance yet' rhetoric.

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11 minutes ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

I do think things were not all rosy between Honor and Cultivation as Honor slipped into insanity. However, the single biggest piece of evidence against the Ghostbloods being agents of Cultivation is that Cultivation is very much opposed to Odium while the Ghostbloods are sitting on the fence with their whole'We must not let either side gain dominance yet' rhetoric.

Agreed.

Whatever the Ghostbloods goals truly are, their methods seem clear. I don't think they want political power directly. They don't seem interested in power for powers sake, but as another tool to be used. Politicians and rulers are far too visible for their methods, in my opinion. Better to control the party who does rule while avoiding the inherent risks. 

The only shard I would outright align them with that we know of is Splintered, and that's Ambition. 

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I could see Cultivation using the Ghostbloods for her own gain. She seems like she'll do anything to ensure life on Roshar is preserved and Odium is stopped.

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Posted (edited)

19 minutes ago, whattheHoid said:

I could see Cultivation using the Ghostbloods for her own gain. She seems like she'll do anything to ensure life on Roshar is preserved and Odium is stopped.

She must have agents other than the spren, right? I am not actually a proponent of the Cultivation Ghostbloods theory, but I am very curious what her Kandra equivalents are. She "took" a piece of Dalinar and said it would be useful to her, and I cant figure out why a chunk of Dalinar would be so useful; can she grow a new Dalinar?  Can she "spike" people with the things she takes? What does she do with the qualities she takes? 

Edited by teknopathetic
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@teknopathetic That's an excellent point!! Maybe she "spikes" spren who then bond with people, therefore they are under her influence or equipped with the tools necessary to undermine Odium or anyother force/s threatening the planet. We know that through Sja-anat  (right) and Cultivation's foresight that Renarin and Glys are something new, something that at least is hidden from the Diagram and Odium. 

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9 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

She must have agents other than the spren, right? I am not actually a proponent of the Cultivation Ghostbloods theory, but I am very curious what her Kandra equivalents are. She "took" a piece of Dalinar and said it would be useful to her, and I cant figure out why a chunk of Dalinar would be so useful; can she grow a new Dalinar?  Can she "spike" people with the things she takes? What does she do with the qualities she takes? 

When we saw the Nightwatcher in OB she seemed almost childish. She has quite a shallow understanding of human nature and can be seen to grow visibly frustrated when she doesn't understand Dalinar's more complex request. My theory is that Cultivation is trying to,well, cultivate the Nightwatcher by giving it Dalinar's memories. Dalinar's painful memories might help in educating the Nightwatcher on the subject of human nature leading to increased maturity or growth, which would fit Cultivation's intent. We see the Stormfather become more sympathetic towards the Radiants involved in the Recreance through his bond with Dalinar so there is some textual precedent for godspren maturing somewhat.

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If the ghostbloods were Cultivation's agents, she could just be manipulating them from the shadows, letting them do what they want, as long as they're headed in the same general direction

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