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Long Game 47: Shadow In The South


Jondesu

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Rathm had a sword.  It was taller than a hobbit.  Rathm blinked twice.  A hobbit?  Here?  He'd been hoping to see one in The Shire when protecting the merchant caravan he'd left.  And now he thought he finally had.  He ambled over to where the hobbit was making some stew.  (Bob had better be making more stew tonight!)  "Bob, you say?  Bob the Hobbit...has anyone ever called you Bobbit?"  They chatted for a short time, providing some release from the current situation.  Rathm felt much more relaxed as they sat eating the stew.  After they had eaten and talked, Rathm took his leave and returned to his small section of the camp.  Watching.  Waiting.

Rathm had a sword.  It was taller than a hobbit.

~~

I've been trying to fit this in for a while, but never got around to it...so the RP is just for fun here...and because I've been trying to think of a way to include 'Bob the Hobbit = Bobbit' for a while now...

Since I have your attention though, I am also curious what in the rules caused Dalinar to re-vote on me.  I understand the initial suspicion (although I feel like I've answered for myself there) but the flip-flop in that post is confusing.

Also, Alvron, as much as I appreciate the RP (you and Bort are neck and neck for my favorite RP so far...sorry Devotary...yours is a close third), it could be useful to get some follow-up logic at some point.  I'm also starting to wonder if there's a code hidden in your ramblings...

Finally, hopefully we have some pinch hitters lined up?  Filter comes on today.  By my count, the following people haven't posted this day OR night cycle:

This is going to be a rough night if they all drop, so please stop by, drop a line, say 'hi', have a drink with Bort.  (Sorry if I missed a post from any of you and am pinging you for no reason)

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2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

If Alvron could explain why exactly he keeps voting for me, I would appreciate it.

Black trees and thistles.  A ring surrounding everything.  Purple foxglove.  In the weeds.  With no hat.

The worms are in my head.  They pulse in my brain and I hears their words.  They don’t like you.

1 hour ago, Rathmaskal said:

Also, Alvron, as much as I appreciate the RP (you and Bort are neck and neck for my favorite RP so far...sorry Devotary...yours is a close third), it could be useful to get some follow-up logic at some point.  I'm also starting to wonder if there's a code hidden in your ramblings...

Tasty!  Skulls are happy.  They always smile.  Two.  Then one … then none.  Then none!
Ooo. Shiny.  I can smell the sun!
A very fine carpet, sir.  Man and yet not man.  The dreams begin.


I can't feel it!  I can't, I can't feel it!

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BUTTONS!

Stop it.  Must stop it.  I must stop it!  Stop it.
Black trees and thistles.  Caddor.  The Void doesn't shine but wants to.  Become fire.

Years pass and souls burn.  The song has ended.

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A council was called early the following morning, with all gathered together. The stranger stood next to Elrond, in a place of high honor, already a curious sight, for that seat was usually left open in honor of Celebrian who was now gone.  Elrond opened by standing and raising his hand, all fell silent.

“You have all been called here for one purpose, to hear our honored guest speak of his need." He motioned for the newcomer to begin. The stranger stepped forward slightly and spoke.

"I am Morwe son of Eru Iluvatar. I have no father for I awoke in a forgotten age next to the waters of Cuivienen.”  Here he paused and a slight murmur passed around the council ring before he continued, “To some of you I have another name. Catholmorn. It was under this name that I fought many long years before under the banner of Elu Thingol King of Doriath.”

“That name I have heard, Morwe.”  Glorfindel said, “Long you fought on the marches with Beleg Cuthalion and Mablung of the Heavy Hand, but I had heard that you perished in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad.”

“The servants of Morgoth wish that I had.  That will come in its due time.  When the summons of the Valar came many long years ago I did not obey but remained by Cuivienen for many long years before traveling the length and breadth of Middle Earth while Arda was still young.  I made my home in the South, until the return of Morgoth when events sent me northward.”  The memory of those events was still very painful to him, he would not mention them now.  “I fought under Thingol and then Maedhros for a time and fled to the South again after the Nirnaeth, where word reached me that the Valar had come and that Morgoth was destroyed.  There I have dwelt for the last two ages in peace.”  Here he paused as if in thought.

“Pardon me for interrupting,” It was Fenerien who spoke, “but it is said that the Catholmorn was known as the Darkblade for a sword that he possessed.  I do not doubt your word but do you have this sword.”

Morwe had turned to look at Fenerien while he spoke and now a dark smile pursed his lips.  There was one he needed.  He slowly drew back his cloak to reveal a sword that hung at his side.  He slowly drew it and all present gasped slightly.

The blade was completely black save for the very edge that was brightest steel, and for a strange design that was carved on the blade near the hilt.  But this was not what was breathtaking, for within the blade there dwelt a strange and fell unlight, it seemed as if the light fell upon it and died as countless servants of Morgoth must have done so before this hour.  Along the edge there ran the faintest flicker of red flame, but the whole sword seemed to be subdued as if it felt the mood of its master and was responding like kind.

“Behold Morambar, The Black Doom, forged by me of old in the far south.  More have perished on this blade then all the rest of you gathered here have slain put together.  Orcs fear its name as much as Gurthang, the black blade of Turambar.”

Narmacil spoke from his corner, “So this is the black blade that the goblin was so afraid of.”  He quickly related his story to all present.  Morwe’s eyes narrowed and to kindle slightly.

“You have not come all this way to tell of tales of old, have you?”  It was Findecano who spoke.

Morwe turned to look at the elf, here was another, the dark smile played at his lips.  “Well spoked son of Thranduil, I have not.”  Here he paused and his whole demeanor seemed to darken, and Morambar seemed to kindle, although very subtly.

“I have come from the South because a great evil has awoken there.  As I have learned it is not the only one who has awoken in these latter days.  Even now one dwells in Khazad-Dum, that which has been renamed Moria.  In the tongue of the Sindar it is called a Valaruakar, in the common language a Balrog, the most deadly and fell servants of Morgoth.”

Glorfindel seemed to shudder slightly at the mention of a Balrog.

“The Haradrim awoke this fell beast, in some manner which I have not been able to discover.  But unlike the Balrog of Moria, this foul spawn of Morgoth is not content to rule in one place. Even now he has set himself up as a lord of men and is gathering together an army to assail Middle Earth.  I understand from Galadriel that another evil, far greater then any Balrog has also reappeared in Mirkwood, but here is not the place to speak of that.  Suffice it to say that should these two evil be allowed to unite Middle Earth would not be able to withstand them.”

Here he fell silent and the entire company looked at him for several minutes in complete quiet.

“I have not come to seek an army, indeed unless my heart misgives me very soon you shall see the trials of this age that shall tell if Middle Earth shall stand or fall.  Instead I seek a few who will be willing to journey back to the south with me and join in the stand against this creature of Morgoth.”

Now silence reigned completely.

———————————————————————————

Silence reigned finally in other rooms, where those who had found themselves ill now collapsed in a final sleep. Zunn the Mad muttered no more. Gandalf the Grey, so long a strong servant of Illuvatar, would rise no longer, not even under his assumed disguise as Kadgar.

And though poison had not slowly leeched through their body, Eleryn also failed to rise. Pinned to the bed by a Mordor dagger, her body was left as a message that not even Imladris was safe.

———————————————————————————

Alvron is dead! They were a loyal Companion!

Dalinar Kholin is dead! They were Gandalf the Grey!

Devotary of Spontaneity is dead! They were a loyal Companion!

Day 4 has begun! 

Player List:

Spoiler
  1. Thalin (Fifth Scholar) Prince of Greenwood

  2. Elandera (Elandera)

  3. Eleyrn (Devotary of Spontaneity) Companion

  4. Itiah IV (I think I am here.)

  5. wyndlenquardra (Ornstein)

  6. Rathm (Rathmaskal)

  7. Zunn the Mad (Alvron) Companion

  8. Bob the Hobbit (Snipexe)

  9. Caddor (Cadmium Compounder)

  10. Legless, the alcoholic Elf (Bort)

  11. Kadgar (Dalinar Kholin) Gandalf the Grey

  12. Fade (Araris Valerian) Companion

  13. Suomynona (xinoehp512)

  14. Glieven, a Ranger of the North (Mafia)

  15. Dorder (Walin)

  16. Halve (GreenRover)

Countdown will be edited in, to end at 8PM Eastern on July 26.

Edited by Jondesu
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We need to lynch someone today. Mordor is one person away from meeting their win-con. 

It will be really unfortunate if they win before the village can get a lynch of any kind through. 

Of course, it would be best if who we kill is an elim. That's why I'm placing my vote on Walin once again. He's avoided lynch three times now, two of those with the help of the Hand of Sauron.

Admittedly, both times the Hand has intervened, there have been last-minute votes that made it result in a tie rather than a lynch. It is possible they were protecting Walin because it was convenient and they simply wanted someone to die, but Occam's Razor says the simplest answer is the right one. And the simplest answer is Walin was protected because he's an elim.

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Ok, time to reveal...well, not my hand, but someone else’s hand.

Before the night was over, Dalinar role-claimed to me as Gandalf the Grey. He scanned...and he saw. 

(One sec, I have to check the scans)

Rathmaskal is an Agent of Mordor. Elandera seemed highly suspicious to Dalinar, and the first person he scanned died—so those are the only scans he shared with me.

I’m being used as a scapegoat, and a tool—suspicion is heaped on me, and we tie due to votes on people with evidence against them.

I believe that Agents of Mordor are on both sides of the ties, to make sure that no one dies each cycle.

C’mon, let’s put on some Power Armor and let the CCC (Center for Chaos Control) take care of the rest. The Companions must live.

Edited by Walin
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So at this point, it is important to realize that for the time being, the gondor spies and the companions have to be on the same team. That way, we both have a chance at winning.

I find it kind of odd, I was chatting Alvron. (A pretty much useless chat. It's just gibberish on both parts) Then he mentioned my RP character name in his last post, then finished the post with "the song has ended" 

Which is also how he ended his last PM with me. Then he died. Knowing Alvron, he may have poisoned himself, then given us some encrypted message to save him. Or he knew he was poisoned. I don't know how though.

I also asked him if he was Gandalf and had scanned xino, but then the cycle ended, and we all know he wasn't now.

More thoughts later.

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26 minutes ago, Walin said:

Ok, time to reveal...well, not my hand, but someone else’s hand.

Before the night was over, Dalinar role-claimed to me as Gandalf the Grey. He scanned...and he saw. 

(One sec, I have to check the scans)

Rathmaskal is an Agent of Mordor. Elandera seemed highly suspicious to Dalinar, and the first person he scanned died—so those are the only scans he shared with me.

I’m being used as a scapegoat, and a tool—suspicion is heaped on me, and we tie due to votes on people with evidence against them.

I believe that Agents of Mordor are on both sides of the ties, to make sure that no one dies each cycle.

C’mon, let’s put on some Power Armor and let the CCC (Center for Chaos Control) take care of the rest. The Companions must live.

Can anyone else corroborate this? I find it a bit odd that Dalinar would claim to someone under so much suspicion, despite having apparently scanned someone who had voted on him. (That's too easily a distancing tactic when you can control the lynch anyways.)

Also, if he'd scanned Rath last cycle, why wouldn't he have put a little more weight behind his vote with some reasoning? He said vaguely it had to do with reading the rules that he removed his vote from you and placed it back on Rath, but provided no more information. 

I'm not discounting it entirely, but it's just... too convenient. 

Perhaps I'm willing to lynch Rath, just to get a lynch. I'd just want a bit more evidence than the word of someone I find most suspicious right now.

EDIT: Storm it.Walin, Rathmaskal. I'm really concerned now I'm trusting the wrong person. 

@Rathmaskal, how would you respond to the scan?

Edited by Elandera
Spelling, vote.
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Halve noticed there was a lot of unused sets of armor and weapons in the group, now. Armor and weapons that would go to Mordor if the Companions didn’t figure out what was going on.

——————————————————

I think we need to start using the poison we have. Jondesu, can we/what happens if someone is poisoned with two full vials?

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Rathm had a sword.  It made him a target.  Rathm had watched and waited all night, but no one had come for him.  As he prepared for the next day, he was tired...but ready for the next day.  Sometimes the sword sustained him and he didn't need sleep.  There was a hush over the camp as he walked through...  Gandalf the Grey?  How could one so wise and powerful be caught unaware?  Didn't wizards sleep with their eyes open?  Apparently it had been a bloodbath during the night.  Aside from the wizard, two others were gone.  They hadn't listened to him yet, but maybe they would now.  

"IT WAS HIM"

Rathm heard the shout from across the camp.  He drew his sword looking to see the accused, expecting another finger pointed at Dorter, when he saw Dorter pointing at him...

"Gandalf himself told me you were evil!"

Gandalf...told you...you who has been under scrutiny not once, not twice, but thrice?  You are who he trusted?

"Well, yeah...why wouldn't he?  What do I have to gain from lying?"

~~

OK, I'll stop with the RP.  If we need to get a lynch off and I'm the target, so be it.  I'll...fall on my sword...if you will.  Since I'm going to be much less active for the next 5ish days, it's possible I've reached the relative end of my most useful time for the village anyway.  (as I mentioned last cycle, I'll still make sure to post and vote, but won't have as much time in general)  Note: I clearly don't WANT to be lynched, but if this is the only way to get a lynch in, let's do it.  Just make sure it can't be affected by the vote manipulation.  The hand is clearly active enough to at least continue putting in actions.  It seems mighty convenient that suddenly Walin knows all the secrets of Gandalf now that Dalinar isn't here to confirm or deny.  It's a smooth gambit to try to push it on me when Dalinar was rather vague with his accusations of me, but there's not corroboration of this and no way to either prove or deny.

Final note here (need to get packed for the weekend) I won't be changing my vote at this point.  I don't think there's anything Walin could say at this point that would convince me he's not on one of the elim teams, but if you're not sure and the vote is within 1, make it so the hand can't manipulate!

~~

Rathm had a sword.  It made him a target.

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4 hours ago, GreenRover said:

Halve noticed there was a lot of unused sets of armor and weapons in the group, now. Armor and weapons that would go to Mordor if the Companions didn’t figure out what was going on.

——————————————————

I think we need to start using the poison we have. Jondesu, can we/what happens if someone is poisoned with two full vials?

Poison wouldn't be a bad idea, but try to be certain it's not a companion who's getting poisoned. We really can't afford to lose an more of us.

There are 11 people remaining alive.

At least two of those are Mordor faction (my guess is up to 4 because of the Gondor win-con)

At least two of those are Gondor (because of their win-con).

That leaves us between 7 and 5 (or fewer, if there are more Gondor Spies) companions left.

If we mislynch today, and we have at least one elim kill, a likely inactivity kill (unless there's a pinch hitter), and a probable poisoning, we could be done for if none of those hit a Mordor or Gondor player.

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7 hours ago, GreenRover said:

I think we need to start using the poison we have. Jondesu, can we/what happens if someone is poisoned with two full vials?

PAFO

EDIT: Writeup is added to the original post.

Edited by Jondesu
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Oh, hey everyone. Really sorry for the inactivity. Honestly, I'm not sure how much I can add. I'm not too useful to be elim killed and I haven't voted at all yet, which should clear me, right? Anyway, checking in I can see that the village doesn't seem to be doing too well. Walin, you've been a figurehead of suspicion for some time now, and while Rath's post seems genuine to me, it seems to me you've used Gandalf's death to your advantage. How should we know you didn't plan for Gandalf to die and use his death in this very gambit? Right now the only word we have on this matter is yours, and considering how you were a target before, it makes sense to pile the blame on someone, claiming Gandalf to claim to you.

Honestly, tying again would be pretty bad, but this all seems too fake. Now, maybe reentering the game again with an accusation also isn't the best plan, but still, this seems like a bandwagon. CadCom in particular.

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Legless looked mournfully at the corpses of the madman and his twin brother. Strange how they had died in the exact same pose. But there went, he felt, their best chance of success. The mad always knew stuff, and now their secrets would never be shared.

And Gandalf... Where had the grey one come from? Legless was pretty sure he hadn't been here last night. And there were two of him too. How did that happen? Some weird magical distortion probably. He took a swig of breakfast from his never-ending jug, and turned to listen to the accusations flying.

When all had calmed down, he said into the quiet, "Zoe sedtoyu hewas the grey'un, and that the fellow wi'the sword is evil? An'thenhedied, leafin' everthin' yusfull t'kno't'yu?" He took another swig, forcing the thought through the haze he lived in. "Ahdun'by't. Too convenent. W'shud'kil'Dorder. W'cn'allus kill th'biggun the morn."

Edited by Bort
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"So he told you he was grey one, and that the fellow with the sword is evil? And then he died, leaving everything useful to know to you? I don't buy it. Too convenient. We should kill Dorder. We can always kill the big one in the morning."

Itiah IV translated the drunken slur of the man to the rest of the group, in case they couldn't understand what he was saying. Itiah had always had a knack for understanding drunken speech, but he didn't know if the others did, and so he tried his best to help everyone else understand the words.

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First a discussion of game mechanics, which seems odd to me that almost no one else wants to discuss too much. It's important in determining how many cycles to Lylo I would say, based on the information we have, I personally expect 3 Agents of Mordor. (The hand of Sauron, and two Mordor Assassins) The reason there would need to be at least 3 is because in the rules it mentions that if two agents send in a kill action on the same night, neither will go through. (the other option is that the hand is also a mordor assassin.) Then I expect 3 Gondor spies as well. That totals 6 non-companions(maybe 7, with a fourth being added to either team).  I expect there to be about 4 bottles of poison, just because that seems like a good number. Of these, it appears 2 were used and took affect last night. That means (possibly) 2 more out there. Hopefully they are in village hands, but that isn't guaranteed. They could be in anyone's hands, so we have to be careful. 

A word to the Companions: You are already outnumbered (if my estimates are correct) There are three Agents of Mordor, and three Gondor Spies. (and maybe one more too) You still do have the voting power together of 5 people(4 if you count hand of Sauron vote manipulation) It's time for all of the companions to band together, and start thinking as a team instead of individually.

A word to the Gondor Spies: Right now, you are sitting pretty safe, as long as the Agents don't find their final win condition person. But the agents of Mordor are becoming a serious threat to your success. It's time to (temporarily) join in with the companions and root out this other evil from amidst our roots.

A word to the Agents of Mordor. You are doing well, unfortunately. We know you are among us, but haven't been able to pin any of you yet, and you are causing us much turmoil, having killed two of our three special roles. The last role is hiding out there somewhere. Unfortunately, for us, you don't really need to worry much about the Gondor spies yet, because you should likely be able to complete your wincon long before that.

Now, to stuff that occurred at Rollover.

Dalinar died. He was Gandalf. I think it's important that we look at who he cleared, as there is a possibility that he already scanned those people, and was able to know that they weren't enemies to the companions. 

Quote

Dalinar, D3

Furthermore, when I disagreed that I found nothing suspicious about Walin and Xino, he didn't pursue it any further. Entirely different from his pm's to me in the last long game where he completely tunneled on the same people.

These are two people who have been under suspicion by everyone else, that Dalinar completely doesn't find suspicious. That is enough for me to agree with him. It seems like Dalinar would try to scan people that everyone was voting on to clear them.  

Yes, I know Walin has unnaturally survived 3 close lynches. But lets look at the possibility that this is an attempt at pocketing. (A very convincing attempt, though I believe it is just pocketing Walin. Making him look like an elim (specifically Agent of Mordor)

That being said, The first person Dalinar cast suspicion on, Elandera, seemed to just be a suspicion of the type "I think what you said is fishy" Dalinar did leave his vote on Elandera for the cycle, even after agreeing that it the issue was actually NAI. But considering Dalinar didn't tunnel on Elandera the next cycle, I believe it was just a suspicion. However, during the next cycle, Dalinar chose Rath. 

In the end of that cycle, he removed his vote from Rath, then returned to place it on Rath, within the same post. (Albeit, it looks like it might have been an edit) "After reading the rules" Unfortunately, he was never able to clarify which rules he reread. (That would be too easy) So it is left up to us to determine that. After I reread the rules, there doesn't seem to be anything overly suspicious about Rath from reading the rules. So I suspect that it was likely just a way for Dalinar to keep his vote on Rath, without drawing suspicion to himself. Unfortunately for us, Dalinar Died. 

I think Dalinar actually did scan Rath, and he is an Agent of Mordor. 

So Now, It's time to look back at interactions with Rath. Other than the fact that Rathm had a sword, they have offered pretty decent contributions to the discussion, even if Rathm thinks that people fear him for the sword, they listen to him as well. 

Rathm PM'd me, and mentioned to me that he had a PM with Elandera, where Elan mentioned that I like to do a lot of stuff over PM, so he reached out to me. Nothing within the wording sounded fishy, but the message in general raised a tiny red flag. Then I PM'd Elan to see their opinions on Dalinar's vote on Rath. I got a very short response saying that Rath seemed like a soft village read. Which didn't seem very out of the ordinary at the time it happened. 

Then, Elan's post this morning seems like a defense of Rath, followed by a half-hearted attempt at distancing, where he threw his vote on Rath. 

 

2 hours ago, I think I am here. said:

Oh, hey everyone. Really sorry for the inactivity. Honestly, I'm not sure how much I can add. I'm not too useful to be elim killed and I haven't voted at all yet, which should clear me, right? Anyway, checking in I can see that the village doesn't seem to be doing too well. Walin, you've been a figurehead of suspicion for some time now, and while Rath's post seems genuine to me, it seems to me you've used Gandalf's death to your advantage. How should we know you didn't plan for Gandalf to die and use his death in this very gambit? Right now the only word we have on this matter is yours, and considering how you were a target before, it makes sense to pile the blame on someone, claiming Gandalf to claim to you.

Honestly, tying again would be pretty bad, but this all seems too fake. Now, maybe reentering the game again with an accusation also isn't the best plan, but still, this seems like a bandwagon. CadCom in particular.  

@I think I am here.I hope my vote no longer seems like a bandwagon vote. I actually had reasoning, I just didn't get around to explaining it at the time. To be honest, this post seems like a defense post against Rath as well, but I'm not nearly as suspicious of it as I am of the Elan/Rath team. Unfortunately, they both have a tendency to be on at or about the time of Rollover, so I don't know which one is likely to be Hand of Sauron. My vote will remain on Rath for now though. 

Also, to those Companions, and Gondor spies still active, PLEASE help, if I am right. With the hand of Sauron, and being on late in the cycle, they have the potential to swing the vote by 3 points late in the cycle (Not including other team members)  So we need to have a solid lynch on one of them (At least 3 ahead than the next closest, preferably 4)  For that reason, I'm tagging the remainder of the living players. I'll edit that in. @Elandera @Ornstein @Rathmaskal @Snipexe @Bort, @xinoehp512, @Mafia @Walin, @GreenRover

Edited by Cadmium Compounder
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*sigh* I'm looking over everything, and I can't decide. It seems that the lynch is between Walin and Rath. Walin claims that Rath was scanned by Dalinar and is evil.  Rath, on the other hand claims that Walin is making everything up. Walin has also been saved from the lynch twice by the Hand of Sauron. The problem remains: who to lynch? If we lynch one and they come up as a villager, then clearly we lynch the other. But what if they come up as an elim? It may clear the other, but it seems that framing each other the way they are doing would be a very good elim ploy. With that in mind, I'm voting Walin. Walin, hopefully you can explain why Dalinar was willing to vote on you even for a little bit last cycle, and, as Elandera said, why he would roleclaim to someone under so much suspicion. Rath, don't think I'm taking my eye off you, either.

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Gosh, guys...None of the suspicion is coming from my actions—until this cycle. It was all because I got protected each time I was going to get lynched, via eliminators.

They’ve been trying to steer suspicion out of the game by focusing it all on me—by keeping me alive, they have a suspicion heat-sink that lets them act more suspiciously than they have to.

While killing me does remove that ability from them, I say we lynch Rath and see if I was telling the truth. Mislynches aren’t an option, and either way you slice it, an eliminator dies—if Rath is a villager, then double-dose me on poison—I’ve got one antidote.

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@xinoehp512 I'm going to argue on this. Probably a bit of tunnelling. Elan seems and/or Rath seem to be around near rollover every cycle. A lot of times, the vote doesn't get within one until near the end of the cycle either. It seems like they're the most likely candidates to be the hand of Sauron. 

Plus there are various comments like this, that when you look retrospectively at them in light of them being possible elims, seem very fishy,

Quote

Elandera, Start of D2

Hmm... That's an unfortunate start for the companions. The Agents of Mordor are one-third of the way to their win-con. 

Does anyone know how many people are Gondor Spies?

Issues about this have already been brought up, and "resolved" back on D2. If you want to go back and look you can, but I'd like to bring up the post again.

Quote

Rathmaskal, also near start of D2

Unfortunate indeed.  I guess it's mildly fortunate that Gandalf wasn't the first kill?  haha

Going back to D1/N1 all Fifth did was RP and throw a vote on Dalinar.  I wouldn't imagine either of those would be the reason Fifth was killed (unless Mordor just really hated the RP) so I'm going to assume this one was a mostly random choice unless someone has any better insight.  Also, impressive disguise for Legolas to be able to hide as a dwarf...haha

I'm open for PMs if anyone wants to send one my way.

Originally it seems innocent, but try rereading it, as if you are suspicious that he is part of the Agents of Mordor

Quote

Elan, D2

Reviewing the roles, I now see it's the Assassin of Mordor who kills, and the Hand of Sauron that poisons.

Nothing too fishy here, but You didn't review the roles very well. Placing a drought is different than poisoning. I already hear the voices in my head. "But an elim wouldn't make this mistake about their own teammate." ..... Which is exactly why they would. Entering into WIFOM. That wasn't the point, It was just to point out that it was wrong. (Maybe attempt at misdirection?)

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Rathmaskal, D3(Page6)

I don't think I've played this game anything like I've played the previous game.  (That was my first game...after that experience and being involved with the MR30 spec doc I've gotten a bit more comfortable with the way people play around here)

Rath was already pretty cunning and clever in his first game, I remember some of his analysis. So if he's learned more by now, then we're doomed if he's Elim. Unless I've also learned more! On another note, maybe the reason he's playing differently is because he's an elim

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Elan, D3(page 7)

Keeping a lynch from happening is slowing down the Gondor Spies win-con. They need to outnumber both other factions.

While I'm still more than willing to move forward with a Walin lynch (for Occam's Razor reasons), it's possible the Hand is okay with keeping a lynch from happening because it slows the Gondor goal. But two times protecting the same person is too much to be coincidence.

I don't know if it is too much to be a coincidence. Slowing down their win-con at all is good. If the Hand is on late in the cycle, they can see who needs a vote manip in order to stop a lynch. Perhaps the hand doesn't care at all if it's Walin. All they want to do is slow another team's wincon.  While it is convenient that it's constantly Walin, for using him as a scapegoat, They really don't care who. If they can make it be Walin, they will, especially now that so much suspicion is being thrown at him.

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While I am very new to this game, I feel like the suspicion being afforded to Walin has merit. Simply because he has been saved by the Hand of Sauron twice might not necessarily mean he's evil, but then again, it doesn't mean he isn't. And again, why would Dalinar trust someone under so much suspicion?

It really comes down to the fact that almost all the evidence that Rath is evil comes from Walin. By lynching you we confirm for certain whether Rath is evil or not. 

Again, however, I'm not an expert. Feel free to pick apart my reasoning like wet tissue paper.

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2 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

While I am very new to this game, I feel like the suspicion being afforded to Walin has merit. Simply because he has been saved by the Hand of Sauron twice might not necessarily mean he's evil, but then again, it doesn't mean he isn't. And again, why would Dalinar trust someone under so much suspicion?

It really comes down to the fact that almost all the evidence that Rath is evil comes from Walin. By lynching you we confirm for certain whether Rath is evil or not. 

Again, however, I'm not an expert. Feel free to pick apart my reasoning like wet tissue paper.

Never discount being new as a weakness, There are very good new players. Unless your discounting your being new as reasons for flaws in order to get us to trust you, so you can stab us in the back. I know some players have done that.:ph34r:

Unfortunately, I have no proof. But I think Dalinar trusted Walin because Dalinar already scanned him, and knew he was not a threat to the companions. Doesn't it make sense to scan someone who is under suspicion? I have no proof that Dalinar Scanned Walin. The only proof I have is from a chat I had with Dalinar. All he told me is that he trusted Walin

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33 minutes ago, Cadmium Compounder said:

Unfortunately, I have no proof. But I think Dalinar trusted Walin because Dalinar already scanned him, and knew he was not a threat to the companions. Doesn't it make sense to scan someone who is under suspicion? I have no proof that Dalinar Scanned Walin. The only proof I have is from a chat I had with Dalinar. All he told me is that he trusted Walin

My issue with this is Dalinar wouldn't have had the time to scan and clear Walin if Walin is telling the whole truth.

He said one person Dalinar scanned was dead, and the other was Rath. That accounts for N1 and N2. He wouldn't have had the time to learn about a scan N3 and also pass on that information.

As I said before, Walin's claim is too convenient.

However, I think I may have figured out the logic behind Dalinar's vague mention of the rules. What if he wanted to draw our attention to them? Say he had scanned Rath, but didn't want to openly claim. So instead, he gets people looking at the rules where they're likely to read about Gandalf having a scan. 

It's possible he trusted Walin with the information because Rath has been tunneling.

I'm not going to take that as a 100 percent clear on Walin if Rath flips elim (simply because the last time I cleared someone because an elim started a lynch against them, the person was an elim) but I will step back.

At this point, however, I want to make clear I don't particularly care which of the two we lynch. As things stand now, I see reason enough to lynch both of them.

I will place my vote on whoever is in the lead at the end of cycle, just to get any lynch going.

Edited by Elandera
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3 minutes ago, Elandera said:

At this point, however, I want to make clear, I don't particularly care which of the two we lynch. As things stand now, I see reason enough to lynch both of them.

I will place my vote on whoever is in the lead at the end of cycle, just to get any lynch going.

Fair enough. This post makes me begin to doubt my assumption that you are teammates, trying to simply distance. But only somewhat. (at least based off of an immediate read) 

While I would much prefer a Rathmaskal lynch, If I don't think he is going to be lynched, my vote might be moved late cycle as well. But maybe not.

Edited by Cadmium Compounder
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