Zape

[OB] what was the thing Dalinar summoned?

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Just wondering what that was since the stormfather said he will not be used a shardblade

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That was either raw investiture pulled from the spiritual realm to answer Dalinar's desperation, or a piece of the Stormfather forced into a form usable for operating the Oathgate. The Stormfather does seem somewhat injured after the occurrence.

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i think he's more insulted then hurt and i thought he only broke enough to pull power from the spiritual realm after his confrontation with odium

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11 minutes ago, Zape said:

i think he's more insulted then hurt and i thought he only broke enough to pull power from the spiritual realm after his confrontation with odium

This wasn't Honor's amorphous power. This was a part of the Stormfather himself, who Dalinar is bonded to. 

Dalinar essentially tried to force the Stormfather to become a blade. He succeeded enough to work the gate, even if what appeared wasn't a truly physical blade. 

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Just now, Calderis said:

This wasn't Honor's amorphous power. This was a part of the Stormfather himself, who Dalinar is bonded to. 

Dalinar essentially tried to force the Stormfather to become a blade. He succeeded enough to work the gate, even if what appeared wasn't a truly physical blade. 

wait since when can people force their spern to do things ?

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9 minutes ago, Zape said:

wait since when can people force their spern to do things ?

To my knowledge, since that scene. I would have said you couldn't prior to that. 

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Just now, Calderis said:

To my knowledge, since that scene. I would have said you couldn't prior to that. 

it seems rather unlikely for brandon to introduce this huge concept in such an ambiguous way

Edited by Zape
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Is the thing that Kaladin did with the windspren blocking the highstorm the same thing?

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Just now, Rock's Stew said:

Is the thing that Kaladin did with the windspren blocking the highstorm the same thing?

i don't think they were forced but either way were talking about radiant spern

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2 minutes ago, Zape said:

it seems rather unlikely for brandon to introduce this huge concept in such an ambiguous way

I mean, this is the same novel where Dalinar manages to summon honors perpendicularity, recharges stormlight, and calls himself Unity.

It seems (to me at least) that Brandon is trying to hint that something strange is going on with Dalinar and the Stormfather.  The ambiguity is probably on purpose.

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3 minutes ago, Rock's Stew said:

Is the thing that Kaladin did with the windspren blocking the highstorm the same thing?

Nah, that was using Adhesion (Pressure and vacuum) to create a windbreak, basically. And manipulating wind would get the attention of windspren.

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6 minutes ago, Zape said:

it seems rather unlikely for brandon to introduce this huge concept in such an ambiguous way

The oathgates are only able to be opened by living Shardblades and Honorblades. The Stormfather has told Dalinar that he will not be a Shardblade for him. Dalinar then summons an ephemeral blade shape that both seems to hurt and insult the Stormfather, and uses it to activate the Oathgate. 

Do you see a better explanation? 

Edited by Calderis
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9 hours ago, Journey Before Pancakes said:

I mean, this is the same novel where Dalinar manages to summon honors perpendicularity, recharges stormlight, and calls himself Unity.

It seems (to me at least) that Brandon is trying to hint that something strange is going on with Dalinar and the Stormfather.  The ambiguity is probably on purpose.

well i mean while the whole conduit thing was sudden but it was explained and well established the gate thing was like three lines also yeah Dalinar is totally going to go full vin 

 

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

The oathgates are only able to be opened by living Shardblades and Honorblades. The Stormfather has told Dalinar that he will not be a Shardblade for him. Dalinar then summons an ephemeral blade shape that both seems to hurt and insult the Stormfather, and uses it to activate the Oathgate. 

Do you see a better explanation? 

its just described as a white thing and the stormfather's reaction is very much open to interpretation i personally think he was either insulted or wakened due to Dalinar breaking his oath not because of the thing

Edited by Zape
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1 minute ago, Zape said:

its just described as a white thing and the stormfather's reaction is very much open to interpretation i personally think he was either insulted or wakened due to Dalinar break his oath not because of the thing

Still doesn't explain how the gate was opened, if not by Dalinar using the Stormfather in a way he explicitly said would not happen. 

Edited by Calderis
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@Calderis just like the gate cannot transport people between the physical realm and shadmeser ?

Edited by Zape
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3 minutes ago, Zape said:

@Calderis just like the gate cannot transport people between the physical realm and shadmeser ?

What? That's a prohibition placed on the Spren of the gate itself, and the only time we see it broken is when the Spren of the gate have been fundamentally altered by Sja-anat. 

When Dalinar pulls them all between realms he'd opened a perpendicularity, and the Oathgate wasn't even a factor. 

What does any of that have to do with Dalinar's activation of the gate without a blade? 

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i wanted to make a point that just because something is considered impossible does not mean that it is further more the only actual evidence we have towards oathgates requiring shardblades is completely anicdotal

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The Honorblades were not crafted from spren, but instead directly from pieces of Honor’s soul. And, as has been mentioned, they also had the ability to work the Oathgates. I’ve always interpreted this scene as Dalinar creating a very primitive form of something like an Honorblade. This isn’t directly forcing the Stormfather himself, but since the Stormfather has merged with Honor’s cognitive shadow, it would still have an effect on him.

I’ve always taken this scene as foreshadowing for the end of the book and that Dalinar is becoming something a little more than your average Bondsmith. 

Edited by IntentAwesome
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2 minutes ago, Zape said:

i wanted to make a point that just because something is considered impossible does not mean that it is 

Sorry, I didn't take it that way. I'm not aware of anything that implies it's impossible for the oathgates to do that, just that the Spren are not willing. 

15 minutes ago, Zape said:

further more the only actual evidence we have towards oathgates requiring shardblades is completely anicdotal

They have an indestructible keyhole that only conforms to fit living spren blades and Honorblades. How is that anecdotal? 

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8 hours ago, IntentAwesome said:

The Honorblades were not crafted from spren, but instead directly from pieces of Honor’s soul. And, as has been mentioned, they also had the ability to work the Oathgates. I’ve always interpreted this scene as Dalinar creating a very primitive form of something like an Honorblade. This isn’t directly forcing the Stormfather himself, but since the Stormfather has merged with Honor’s cognitive shadow, it would still have an effect on him.

Ive always taken this scene as a hint that Dalinar is becoming something a little more than your average Bondsmith. 

that's a really good explanation also yeah i am fairly certain he is going to ascend 

 

8 hours ago, Calderis said:

Sorry, I didn't take it that way. I'm not aware of anything that implies it's impossible for the oathgates to do that, just that the Spren are not willing. 

They have an indestructible keyhole that only conforms to fit living spren blades and Honorblades. How is that anecdotal? 

first of all i meant that that its considered impossible to open one without a blade second of all it is purely anecdotal we don't have any clue about how the oathgates work and have no reason to assume only a blade can open them

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3 minutes ago, Zape said:

we don't have any clue about how the oathgates work and have no reason to assume only a blade can open them

I disagree, based of the end of WoR. You have to use the keyhole to make the gate function. The material of the keyhole doesn't respond to a dead blade, just a living one. And the Honorblades working as well makes sense in that context as the blades I themselves were done by the Spren in mimicry of the Honorblades. 

The only anecdote is the "only the Knights could operate the oathgates" and the evidence supports that. 

Until we see another item that can unlock them, the material of the mechanism has been shown to only react to living blades. 

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48 minutes ago, Zape said:

well i mean while the whole conduit thing was sudden but it was explained and well established the gate thing was like three lines also yeah Dalinar is totally going to go full vin 

The perpendicularity was kind of explained.  It seemed like the Stormfather didn't expect it to happen; nor did he expect Dalinar to be able to give stormlight like that.

It really seems like Brandon is just leaving clues (and Dalinars explicit mention) that things are different with the Stormfather now.

I don't think we've ever seen someone else bond a splinter who is also the cognitive shadow of a shards vessel.  He's in a very unique spot.

Edited by Journey Before Pancakes
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1 minute ago, Calderis said:

I disagree, based of the end of WoR. You have to use the keyhole to make the gate function. The material of the keyhole doesn't respond to a dead blade, just a living one. And the Honorblades working as well makes sense in that context as the blades

that is like saying "i know how a gun works you point and pull the trigger" just because you have a rudimentary understanding of how a thing functions sort of does not mean that its impossible for it to function differently from how you expect take azure's or szeth's blade for instance will they work ?

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1 minute ago, Zape said:

that is like saying "i know how a gun works you point and pull the trigger" just because you have a rudimentary understanding of how a thing functions sort of does not mean that its impossible for it to function differently from how you expect take azure's or szeth's blade for instance will they work ?

I doubt it it for Azure's, as an awakened blade I don't think it's physical material can become malleable enough to merge with the locking mechanism even if the mechanism reacts properly. 

Nightblood would just obliterate the Oathgate. 

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Just now, Calderis said:

I doubt it it for Azure's, as an awakened blade I don't think it's physical material can become malleable enough to merge with the locking mechanism even if the mechanism reacts properly. 

Nightblood would just obliterate the Oathgate. 

we do not understand the oathgates because of that we cannot make any assumptions on what will or will not activate them

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