Taln's Identity

[ccstat]

The dart-snatching is also a point in favor of it being Jes specifically, not just because he can catch them but because those darts were aimed at Amaram, and Jes is the one known for protecting others. Taln's attributes are Dependable and Resourceful, which are good things but don't necessarily suggest instinctive assassination-thwarting.

[Eejit]

I really don't see how it can. Shallan, Hoid, and the guards from Kholinar understand him perfect as he speaks "perfect Alethi." Dalinar and Elhokar can barely catch a word here and there and attribute it to what they think is Northern accent. I'd be okay if it was just the accent, but they literally have no idea what he is saying.

 

Amaram didn't have any problems understanding Taln. It's down to mumbling, not accent.

[Lance]

Hallo I'm new here and may not ad anything usefull to this discussion.

I have been rereading the chapter were Taln is discussed and I can't shake the feeling that the person(who is or is not Taln) is still partly connected to damnation. It's like the body of Taln couldn't return fully.

I am not sure at this point of anything,but I Think that the "madman" is maybe sharing his mind with someone else. I hope I didn't stray the discusion anywhere.

[Argent]

Amaram didn't have any problems understanding Taln. It's down to mumbling, not accent.

 

But how can everyone understand him, except for Dalinar and Elhokar? Is that scene the only time he decided to mumble? 

[Gyth]

I believe he is Taln.

 

When he shows up at the gate speaking "perfect Alethi" he seems coherent. It's possible after he collapses and loses consciousness, he loses his grip on reality.

 

It's possible the torture is to blame. Sure, he broke. 

 

He is a warrior. He is one of the Almighty's champions.

 

When Amaram chases after the assassin, I like to think the possible threat of voidbinders attacking, stirred something primal and innate in Taln. Once he realizes it was a simple assassin, he slips back into his trance.

 

Or Taln was at the gates. Then somehow he was switched for Jezrien. He could have broke from the guilt of leaving Taln to endure alone. Who knows, in his guilt Jezrien could have fixated on Taln to the point he lost track of who he was.

[sadavidas]

Here's my long shot theory. The imprisoned Taln is a kandra!

[EnaMai]

Here's my long shot theory. The imprisoned Taln is a kandra!

 

Oooh I like it . Or maybe Shai Forged Taln onto another body.

[Moogle]

New WoB, courtesy of Argent:

Q [28:55]: Will a Surgebinder's eye color change when they Surgebind or have a Blade... Is the color of their eyes corresponding to their Order? So Windrunners would do blue, and [i couldn't finish, but I was going to say "Lightweavers - red-ish, and so on")

A: Yes.

Q: So each Order does a different eye color?

A: Each Order does indeed get a different eye color.

 

So, I believe "Taln's" dark eyes are indeed a sign that he was not wielding an Honorblade. Or, perhaps he had an Honorblade (since it didn't disappear when it was dropped), but it was not bonded to him. He was told what to say and sent into Kholinar with the Blade in hand. Someone later provided him with a Blade when the Honorblade disappeared.

[Argent]

I wonder if maybe he showed up with the Honorblade, but it just wasn't bound to him.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Argent

[Baine]

 

 

But how can everyone understand him, except for Dalinar and Elhokar? Is that scene the only time he decided to mumble? 

 

Regarding that question, just remember; he's been spouting that recorded message like a robot for weeks during the travel from Kholinar to the Shattered plains. It probably dwindled slowly down from then to the almost incoherent mumbling.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Baine

[Swimmingly]

I'm just amused that Shallan is gonna have glowing red eyes.

[Argent]

Except when he recites it to Shallan and Amaram, they have no issues with it.

[Moogle]

I'm just amused that Shallan is gonna have glowing red eyes.

 

I'm holding out for pink eyes, myself. The Surgebinder eyes are described as "pale" and pale garnet makes me think pink.

 

Dustbringers, though? Dustbringers are so getting red eyes. It's hilarious, because they're touchy about their name being similar to Voidbringers, who also have red eyes. (Assuming stormform is a Voidbringer form, anyways.)

Edited March 23, 2014 by Moogle

[Baine]

Maybe it's louder in the cell? Do padded walls echo?

[trendkill]

New WoB, courtesy of Argent:

So, I believe "Taln's" dark eyes are indeed a sign that he was not wielding an Honorblade. Or, perhaps he had an Honorblade (since it didn't disappear when it was dropped), but it was not bonded to him. He was told what to say and sent into Kholinar with the Blade in hand. Someone later provided him with a Blade when the Honorblade disappeared.

Of course, that assumes that he also included the Heralds in his definition of Surgebinder for the purpose of answering the question. The question was also pretty specific to Shardblades as opposed to Honorblades.

I'm not convinced one way or the other. I don't think it's proof that the dark eyes do or don't mean anything. We might need a more specifically worded question.

[Moogle]

Of course, that assumes that he also included the Heralds in his definition of Surgebinder for the purpose of answering the question. The question was also pretty specific to Shardblades as opposed to Honorblades.

I'm not convinced one way or the other. I don't think it's proof that the dark eyes do or don't mean anything. We might need a more specifically worded question.

 

Jezrien's Honorblade turned Szeth's eyes a pale blue, exactly how Kaladin's eyes were described. Like, I can understand people not wanting to leap to conclusions here... but what more evidence do you want? Like, do you think it's likely that it's just Jezrien's Honorblade that changes your eye color? We have WoB that all Surgebinders have a specific eye color, and we are batting 100% for known Honorblades changing the eye color of those who summon them. We know that Shardblades were modeled after Honorblades.

 

There's clear links here, so I think it's like over 90% likely that Honorblades change the eye color of those they're bonded to when they're summoned. I can't really understand your viewpoint here.

[trendkill]

The main thing holding me back is that he's a Herald. We just don't know enough about them to know how or if things affect them. Like I said, I'm not saying that it doesn't mean anything, but I don't know that it does, either.

[Argent]

Yea, I have to agree with you here... Though I will stick with "Taln didn't get a chance to re-bond with his Honorblade after his return"

[Swimmingly]

I can just imagine a Dustbringer bar, everybody drinking dejectedly and ranting about how they're misunderstood because of their glowing red eyes.

"I'm telling you, Khas, it's rough. I saved an orphanage full of children today from a fire, blew a hole in their wall and carried out the ones that were unconscious from smoke inhalation with my bare hands, and you know what happened? They screamed and ran away from me. One little boy with burns across his entire body began screaming to 'get the Voidbringer away' when I pulled out my ReGrowth fabrial. It's these damned eyes, Khas. A little red glow, and suddenly I'm the next thing to a Void-taken marble. Storm it, I don't know why I still do this."

[Aleksiel]

I can just imagine a Dustbringer bar, everybody drinking dejectedly and ranting about how they're misunderstood because of their glowing red eyes.

"I'm telling you, Khas, it's rough. I saved an orphanage full of children today from a fire, blew a hole in their wall and carried out the ones that were unconscious from smoke inhalation with my bare hands, and you know what happened? They screamed and ran away from me. One little boy with burns across his entire body began screaming to 'get the Voidbringer away' when I pulled out my ReGrowth fabrial. It's these damned eyes, Khas. A little red glow, and suddenly I'm the next thing to a Void-taken marble. Storm it, I don't know why I still do this."

 

And that's why the Dustbringers rage quit during the Recreance, one mystery solved 

[Gamma Fiend]

The blue Alethi war uniform is really going to clash with Adolin's glowing red eyes....

[Elena]

The blue Alethi war uniform is really going to clash with Adolin's glowing red eyes....

He's still got his pretty face though.

 

[Levian]

I mentioned all this in another thread

 http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/7113-theory-nohadon-wor-spoilers/ 

 

The section where he sees Shallan Lightweaving is very interesting. Now, I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as probably everybody else on these forums, but the Desolation we see the Heralds giving up the Oathpact was the last Desolation between then and our current point in the story. I don't remember what Taln said exactly, but he was sort of surprised by Shallan Lightweaving. He knew what it was but if I remember correctly, by what he said and his reaction there were no Lightweavers around that he had ever seen, commenting about how... someone who I forget the name of (Ishi?)... was successful in founding them. Now this strikes me as VERY odd. I highly doubt after the last Desolation, any of the Heralds went about recruiting or making the order of Lightweavers. Which means they were probably founded before the last Desolation, which is something Taln should know about isn't it? Which - unless I'm missing something - is some sort of evidence that the madman isn't Taln, but rather someone who is knowledgeable of the KR. I'm not sure, I'm probably missing something big here. 

 

I assumed Taln was on repeat because his mind snapped from torture and he was just repeating what he would have said in previous Desolations. But from the WoB we've seen, something is definitely wrong. Maybe he bonded with an Odium spren in a way similar to the Nahel bond, whether intentional or not, and it is trying to control his thoughts and actions similar to the Parshendi, but his will is strong enough that he is fighting it.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Levian

[Awesomeness Summoned]

“One of Ishar’s Knights,” the madman whispered. His eyes narrowed. “I remember . . . He founded them? Yes. Several Desolations ago. No longer just talk. It hasn’t been talk for thousands of years. But . . . When . . .”

It seems more like he remembers their founding and has seen Radiants before, he's just having troubles figuring out exactly how long it's been since then and how many desolations. His timeline has gotten screwed up.

[Levian]

Ah that does make sense, I was under the impressing for some reason all the orders except the Lightweavers had been founded.. Thanks for that!

 

So that leaves me thinking that it is indeed Taln still, but not as he should be. My guess is he has involuntarily bonded with an Odium spren and it is trying to take over his mind. Being the last Herald who hasn't been corrupted by breaking their vows and spending thousands of years brooding over the fact, if Odium could incapacitate him it would be a huge advantage.