Animal takes over shard

[+Ark1002]

I was inspired by another topic, so what would happen if an animal (such as a beaver) took up a shard? Would it become intelligent and human-like? Or would it stay chaotic, such as a giant cat playing with the world like it was yarn. Maybe it would be dependant on the shard? Like Harmony would give enlightenment, Odium would cause the animal to stay instinctual? Just wondering about people's theories.

[Weltall]

Investiture seeks sapience so it probably would be impossible for a non-sapient creature to Ascend in the first place, or if you could somehow force the pairing the Shard would develop sapience of its own and eventually ditch the Vessel that can't do anything for it. We know Shards can fight against their Vessel (see: Secret History) so something similar would probably happen here.

[+Ark1002]

8 hours ago, Weltall said:

Investiture seeks sapience so it probably would be impossible for a non-sapient creature to Ascend in the first place, or if you could somehow force the pairing the Shard would develop sapience of its own and eventually ditch the Vessel that can't do anything for it. We know Shards can fight against their Vessel (see: Secret History) so something similar would probably happen here.

But what if the shard wanted the chaos? Say ruin took it over, would it really want someone with a good essence? Maybe it would use the host until it found a more suitable one.

[Calderis]

If you had a animal that was already near sapient, which in my opinion at least is much more common than most people care to think about, then I don't the Shard would reject the vessel. 

I think it would expand the mind of that vessel exactly as it does for a human vessel. You would have an immensely intelligent and capable mind... Still governed by the base structure of what the animal was mentally. 

I think it could make for some very interesting, and in some cases terrifying, results. 

[Journey Before Pancakes]

20 minutes ago, Calderis said:

If you had a animal that was already near sapient, which in my opinion at least is much more common than most people care to think about, then I don't the Shard would reject the vessel. 

I think it would expand the mind of that vessel exactly as it does for a human vessel. You would have an immensely intelligent and capable mind... Still governed by the base structure of what the animal was mentally. 

I think it could make for some very interesting, and in some cases terrifying, results. 

That's what I'm thinking too.

Something like a Ryshadium probably wouldn't have much trouble at all.

The biggest problem might be intent.  I don't know if you could take up a shard unless you knew you were taking control of a vast wealth of power.  It may be a natural enough process that sentient animals could figure it out anyways though.

[+Ark1002]

7 hours ago, Calderis said:

If you had a animal that was already near sapient, which in my opinion at least is much more common than most people care to think about, then I don't the Shard would reject the vessel. 

I think it would expand the mind of that vessel exactly as it does for a human vessel. You would have an immensely intelligent and capable mind... Still governed by the base structure of what the animal was mentally. 

I think it could make for some very interesting, and in some cases terrifying, results. 

Yeah, maybe a creature like a dolphin or a chimpanzee could do it, though that would create interesting results, as dolphins are naturally playful, so there use of power could be chaotic... 

 

7 hours ago, Journey Before Pancakes said:

That's what I'm thinking too.

Something like a Ryshadium probably wouldn't have much trouble at all.

The biggest problem might be intent.  I don't know if you could take up a shard unless you knew you were taking control of a vast wealth of power.  It may be a natural enough process that sentient animals could figure it out anyways though.

I think they could still do it if they sensed the power coming from it, and thought it would help them. I mean, chimpanzees can play simple video games, can't be to much different

[Wyndlerunner]

I saw the title "Animal takes up Shard" and immediately thought of the Muppet... that could be interesting/incredibly deadly 

[Szmit]

Investiture seaks sapience, but also creates. Shard also requires a phisical aspect. I'd say if for example some shard pushed a vesselles shard into animal, it would create weaker but functional shard, just like

Spoiler

Kelsier could despite not having a body

Can we do SH spoilers there?

[DrakeMarshall]

Raw investiture can in some cases become sapient.

In the case of type IV awakened entities, a consciousness is formed around a single command phrase.

In the case of Roshar's radiant spren, a consciousness is formed around a set of spoken oaths.

It is noteworthy that in both cases, the consciousness had to form around some kind of starting point, a guiding principle.

 

I would guess that what happens with shards and vessels is basically the same thing, just on a larger scale.

For a shard, the starting point is a human being. This is probably because humans are complex enough that they can be strongly connected to a shardic intent.

If theoretically an animal was more strongly connected to a particular shard's intent (unlikely, but maybe possible), they should be able to ascend to hold a shard.

From the evidence that a much smaller amount of investiture can create relatively intelligent and sapient beings like Nightblood and Sylphrena, I conclude that the shard would probably form a very intelligent and human-like consciousness from the animal's mind.

Calderis already suggested that the result would still more or less be governed by the basic structure of an animal's brain. This is quite possible.

The other major possibility though is that the shardic intent wins out, possibly used to fill in the gaps to create the consciousness, and the intelligence guiding the shard is already significantly warped by the shard's intent from day 1.

[goody153]

On 6/24/2018 at 11:58 AM, Ark1002 said:

I was inspired by another topic, so what would happen if an animal (such as a beaver) took up a shard? 

Wouldn't that become a 

Shardbeaver

[+Ark1002]

19 hours ago, goody153 said:

Wouldn't that become a 

Shardbeaver

The cheesiest thing I have ever heard.... I must not get infected, or I will become my dad....

[+Ark1002]

help, where can I get medicine?

[Leyrann]

It will only get worse.

[Bigmikey357]

On 6/26/2018 at 1:35 AM, Drake Marshall said:

Raw investiture can in some cases become sapient.

In the case of type IV awakened entities, a consciousness is formed around a single command phrase.

In the case of Roshar's radiant spren, a consciousness is formed around a set of spoken oaths.

It is noteworthy that in both cases, the consciousness had to form around some kind of starting point, a guiding principle.

 

I would guess that what happens with shards and vessels is basically the same thing, just on a larger scale.

For a shard, the starting point is a human being. This is probably because humans are complex enough that they can be strongly connected to a shardic intent.

If theoretically an animal was more strongly connected to a particular shard's intent (unlikely, but maybe possible), they should be able to ascend to hold a shard.

From the evidence that a much smaller amount of investiture can create relatively intelligent and sapient beings like Nightblood and Sylphrena, I conclude that the shard would probably form a very intelligent and human-like consciousness from the animal's mind.

Calderis already suggested that the result would still more or less be governed by the basic structure of an animal's brain. This is quite possible.

The other major possibility though is that the shardic intent wins out, possibly used to fill in the gaps to create the consciousness, and the intelligence guiding the shard is already significantly warped by the shard's intent from day 1.

We already know humankind doesn't have a monopoly on Vessels. We know Ambition was a Sho Del (whatever that is) and we know from WOB that one of the Shards we haven't met yet is held by a dragon.

[DrakeMarshall]

Very true. Then again, I believe the dragons of Yolen were already sapient.

[happyman]

On 7/1/2018 at 6:43 PM, Drake Marshall said:

Very true. Then again, I believe the dragons of Yolen were already sapient.

As were the Sho Del.