SzethIsBadAsHell

fused
[OB] Let’s discuss. How the Fused use Voidlight

68 posts in this topic

So I’m greatly interested in how the Fused power their surges . Logic would have us thinking it work Like stormlight . Yet the Fused don’t carry spheres .we know that everstorm does not recharge spheres with stormlight . So I’m going to come up with a theory and see what u guys think . 

 

The everstorm brings Voidlight with it when it comes . The Voidlight is captured in the Fused gemheart , gems woven into the Fused hair, and possibly even its skin . We have seen the Fused glow constantly with Voidlight . 

I think the Fused are extremely efficient with their use of Voidlight . We see the Flying Fused that lash constantly Float around to where they hardly ever walk . So when it comes to surges they are extremely efficient or it cost little to anyvoidlight .

 

it could possibly cost more for Healing as we saw a Fused survive a shardblade tp the stomach. It wasn’t until the Gem heart was destroyed and possibly the source of its Voidlight healing did the creature die !

 

as the everstorm comes more often than a highstorm , they usually have enough to last until the next everstorm . 

If u ask me the Fused have more efficient powers . KR have to have constant stormlight and it runs out way too fast. And  the high storm does not come around enough . What do u guys think

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I don't think it's the Everstorm, but I would seriously love to know how Voidlight is delivered. 

On multiple occasions we don't see the Fused start glowing until they actually begin to use their surges. If it were stored in gems, we should see the glow around gemstones but it just appears as they need it. 

As to the efficiency, Voidlight doesn't appear to leak like Stormlight does. Because of that I have a theory about how it functions differently then Stormlight. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I don't think it's the Everstorm, but I would seriously love to know how Voidlight is delivered. 

On multiple occasions we don't see the Fused start glowing until they actually begin to use their surges. If it were stored in gems, we should see the glow around gemstones but it just appears as they need it. 

As to the efficiency, Voidlight doesn't appear to leak like Stormlight does. Because of that I have a theory about how it functions differently then Stormlight. 

 

Well Cal , let’s say your theory  is correct ; How do u explain the Fight Kaladin had on the walls of Kholinar with a Fused ? After they were in the air Kaladin quickly summoned Syl as a longknife and plunged into the Fused stomach . This would be a mortal blow to anyone except a radiant. The Fused survived so the Voidlight must have started healing him immediately. It wasn’t until Kal destroyed his gemheart did he stop healing . So either the gemheart is where the Fused stores his Voidlight. Or the Gemheart is where his connection to Voidlight is accessed. Another example of healing is when a Fused used Voidlight to appear human in Thaylan city in attempts to steal the perfect Ruby. That Fused survived several mortal injuries until Rysn Larkin fed on its Voidlight and after it was deinvestated ( Made that up lol) it was then hurt . So Voidlight has some healing or sustaining effect . Now I agree your theory about it going in may be true . I have seen them glowing with Voidlight without using a surge. And example when Kaladin was a captive of Ken and the freed Alethi parsh, that Fused was glowing and apparently not using a surge...

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The one he stabbed didn't heal, it just didn't die. And the wound Kal inflicted did not sever the spine so it wasn't a mortal blow, even to a normal person. When the gemheart was broken, the anchor of the Fused to the body was severed. 

We have not yet seen Voidlight close a wound. The closest we've seen is the lack of wounds on the one in the Gemstone Repository after Chirri-Chirri sucked away its Voidlight and the illusions fell... But as an illusionist, who knows if those wounds ever landed. Most likely it did heal under the illusion though. 

As I say in that thread, I fully believe that Voidlight can heal, all investiture should be capable of that, I just don't think it's automatic. 

Edited by Calderis
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1 minute ago, Calderis said:

The one he stabbed didn't heal, it just didn't die. And the wound Kal inflicted did not sever the spine so it wasn't a mortal blow, even to a normal person. When the gemheart was broken, the anchor of the Fused to the body was severed. 

We have not yet seen Voidlight close wound. The closest we've seen is the lack of wounds on the one in the Gemstone Repository after Chirri-Chirri sucked away its Voidlight and the illusions fell... But as an illusionist, who knows if those wounds ever landed. Most likely it did heal under the illusion though. 

As I say in that thread, I fully believe that Voidlight can heal, all investiture should be capable of that, I just don't think it's automatic. 

Larkin are dangerous  to binders , they can eat any type of investiture or just storm and Voidlight ? I was clapping when chirri chirri ate up his voidlight . I wonder how big they get and can they eat breath and other forms of investiture??

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Just now, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Larkin are dangerous  to binders , they can eat any type of investiture or just storm and Voidlight ? I was clapping when chirri chirri ate up his voidlight . I wonder how big they get and can they eat breath and other forms of investiture??

Any type. Just like Nightblood, or how Leechers can burn away investiture. 

Quote

Questioner

If you were a Leecher, could you destroy a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to RAFO that for now, let's just say that it would be incredibly difficult if it were possible, and I'm not going to even say if it is. But that kind of power... 

Questioner

Let's just say they were burning duralumin as well.

Brandon Sanderson

Let's just say that the Investiture in a Shardblade is much greater than your average Allomancer, but... This type of thing is not unheard of in the Cosmere. The larkin, the Leechers, and Nightblood all have a similar sort of thing going on. Destroying a Shardblade would be really hard. And Investiture resists other forms of Investiture, so.

source

 

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10 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Any type. Just like Nightblood, or how Leechers can burn away investiture. 

 

So do Larkins get bigger as they feed on investiture ? Just had a funny thought ? What if the Priest in warbreaker used a Larkin on the god king . Either it would get really big or die from over eating . I’d like to see what would happen!!

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So a friend of mine in another group just sent me a message! He theorizes that the Fused are Cognitive shadows and draw their Voidlight directly from Odium. Similar to When Vin fought the Lord Ruler and drew from Preservation power thru the mist ? @Calderis what do u think to this new theory?

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1 minute ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

So a friend of mine in another group just sent me a message! He theorizes that the Fused are Cognitive shadows and draw their Voidlight directly from Odium. Similar to When Vin fought the Lord Ruler and drew from Preservation power thru the mist ? @Calderis what do u think to this new theory?

Well, they are Cognitive Shadows. That’s exactly how they work and are able to stay alive so long and get new bodies. 

The only problem I have with the Fused drawing directly from Odium is that they shouldn’t be able to run out that way, which is not the case since Chiri-Chiri was able to drain a Fused enough to kill it. They would be fed the power directly from a Share, so they shouldn’t ever run out. They must get their voidlight some other way then. 

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Ninja'd by the ever articulate @StrikerEZ

Said almost everything I was going to. 

Odium definitely seems to be the source as the epigraph about BAM tells us that during the false desolation, she provided the Parsh with Voidlight "as Odium once did." 

The feed is either indirect or inconsistent though, otherwise Chirri-Chirri should have just kept on feeding. 

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4 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

Well, they are Cognitive Shadows. That’s exactly how they work and are able to stay alive so long and get new bodies. 

The only problem I have with the Fused drawing directly from Odium is that they shouldn’t be able to run out that way, which is not the case since Chiri-Chiri was able to drain a Fused enough to kill it. They would be fed the power directly from a Share, so they shouldn’t ever run out. They must get their voidlight some other way then. 

Good point , so I like my Voidlight in the Gem heart , and efficient use theory 

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1 minute ago, Calderis said:

Ninja'd by the ever articulate @StrikerEZ

Said almost everything I was going to. 

Odium definitely seems to be the source as the epigraph about BAM tells us that during the false desolation, she provided the Parsh with Voidlight "as Odium once did." 

The feed is either indirect or inconsistent though, otherwise Chirri-Chirri should have just kept on feeding. 

Oh yeah, I don’t disagree with the fact that they’re directly fed by Odium. I just don’t like it lol. 

I could get behind the idea that Odium is directly feeding them, but not constantly or directly. I would just wonder two things: 1) how would that work; and 2) why would he do that? Wouldn’t it be more efficient to just constantly supply the Fused with voidlight? Unless that leaves him open to attacks from the other Shard/Shards (when Honor was still alive). 

Also, I’m sure I’ve told you this before, but I really love you’re theory that voidlight tends to go in while storm light tenda to go out. 

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It seems like they have a direct feed like the Heralds did, like mentioned by others.

The mechanics of how that works have never been explicitly laid out though AFAIK.  I assume there would be limits though.  I think it could cause a lot of problems if their connection actually gave them constant unlimited access to stormlight/void light.

It could be limited by what Odium can use; maybe there's also built in stops to prevent say a large group of larkins from feeding heavily off those direct connections and weakening a shard.  It could even be like an emergency stop valve; kinda like "he's using way too much investiture too fast; stop giving it to him" to prevent an exploitable loss in power.

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@Journey Before Pancakes I could actually really get behind that. It seems like a really cool idea. It would explain why the Heralds and Fused can actually die. Sort of a fail safe in the Shards themselves that stop people from using too much of their power. 

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6 hours ago, Journey Before Pancakes said:

The mechanics of how that works have never been explicitly laid out though AFAIK.  I assume there would be limits though.  I think it could cause a lot of problems if their connection actually gave them constant unlimited access to stormlight/void

I have thinking about this all night . The more I try and let it go , it keeps coming back up in my thoughts : 

so let’s recap 

we all agree that the Fused are cognitive shadows: they occupy the gemheart and rip the spirit web of the listener out forever killing the host .

 

Theory A: Voidlight is the opposite of Stormlight: where Stormlight is captured in gemstones and leaks out over time . Voidlight is absorbed into the Gemheart of. The Fused slowly. Roughly at the same rate as stormlight leaks out. This would allow a direct link to cognitive Realm be it Odium or an Unmade . IT would also make sense That if a creature like The Larkin or leecher would De-invest the Fused it would take a long time hours to build back up . Leaving the Fused vulnerable for a short time

Theory B:

The Gemheart Captures Voidlight During an everstorm . The gemhearts are Perfect gemstones with little to no leakage.

Voidbinders are extremely efficient , requiring very little Voidlight to utilize There surges 

IF the Gemheart is destroyed under either theory The Fused shadow returns to Braiyse until the next Everstorm and a suitable Vessel can be Found .

If anybody has another theory make C and so on .

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1 hour ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

The Gemheart Captures Voidlight During an everstorm

We have been told explicitly that this doesn't happen. Gems left in the Everstorm are not charged with either variety of light. The Everstorm is the delivery method, it would still be imparting Voidlight to the Fused, or perhaps the voidspren in the case of Regals, and not the gemheart itself. 

There still has to be another way for Voidlight to be received, because the Everstorm did not exist in prior desolations, and Voidlight was still available to the Fused. 

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Well Jasnah made a comment ! She said the Everstorm was new, it happened differently in the past , I’m guessing it was some other way to infuse Voidlight . Point was she was immediately familiar with the concept after coming out of shadesmar

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9 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Well Jasnah made a comment ! She said the Everstorm was new, it happened differently in the past , I’m guessing it was some other way to infuse Voidlight . Point was she was immediately familiar with the concept after coming out of shadesmar

That's an assumption I don't see a basis for. All she said was "that's not the way it happened in the past." and per the Stormfather, this storm is not something that happened before. 

Her immediate follow-up also says she has no answers. 

Quote

"We can’t depend upon the ancient writings,” she said. “And the supposed god of men is a fabrication. So we can’t look to the heavens for salvation, but apparently we can’t look toward the past either. So where can we look?" 

She's desperate trying to find answers because every source of information she knows has failed.

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I think the Fused get a direct flow of Voidlight, either from Bo or Odium. But I believe it's like Savantism. Spook burns Tin so much that when he runs out he is sensation-less. Fused are so stuffed with Voidlight that if they are drained past a certain threshold they can no longer function. I postulate the larkin drank much faster than could be replaced. Basically the Fused are a cup under a tap. The larkin put a big hole in the bottom of the cup. Or Voidlight flows like blood and the larkin vamp'ed it all.

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Rather than topic jump a single discussion, I'll respond to this quote here, where it was meant. 

34 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

It’s really all speculation but u hopped around the point that Jasnah said that supported my argument . She said the Everstorm was new but of old design “ what does it do? It allows the Fused to take host , change forms , and I’m assuming gain investiture . I’m ok being wrong ! I just think it does have something to with it. Also I have seen it say that Everstorm do not charge gems with stormlight ! I have never say it doesn’t provide any type of investiture . I would like to see that if u know where it is . Thx

Where did Jasnah say the Everstorm was new but old of design? That was the Stormfather. 

Quote

THE EVERSTORM. IT IS A NEW THING, BUT OLD OF DESIGN. IT ROUNDS THE WORLD NOW, AND CARRIES WITH IT HIS SPREN. ANY OF THE OLD PEOPLE IT TOUCHES WILL TAKE ON THEIR NEW FORMS.

As to the Everstorm not recharging gems, it's in Kaladin's first chapter in OB. 

Quote

The Everstorm hadn’t recharged his spheres, of course. Neither with Stormlight nor some other energy, which he’d feared might happen.

 

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59 minutes ago, Calderis said:

ere did Jasnah say the Everstorm was new but old of design? That was the Stormfather

Hey cal please don’t take offense, I think u pretty knowledgeable guy and I want discuss things with u cause I learn from you. Thing is when I read that sentence , my mind interpreted both those quotes differently. When it said new thing  of old design . I wondered since they have never had an everstorm before , perhaps during past desolation’s the singers may have sung during high storms to achieve similar effects .

 

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

The Everstorm hadn’t recharged his spheres, of course. Neither with Stormlight nor some other energy, which he’d feared might happen

As for this part the everstorm didn’t place Voidlight into gemstones. I don’t think that a singers gemheart containing a cognitive shadow from the void would not be infused . The Gemheart might be the proper vessel for Voidlight . Whereas a gemstone is the proper vessel for stormlight. I think Brandon was just telling us don’t expect stormlight from an everstorm ., and don’t worry about Voidlight either. I guess we will have to RAFO . In logical terms I know why Brandon didn’t work the mechanics like that ! Because if he did then u would run into problems . A KR gemstones half filled with Stormlight , then an everstorm hits , would Voidlight purge the stormlight to take its place? So he had to find another vessel for it or those mechanics would pop up! So it makes sense that Everstorm don’t do anything to gemstones!

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8 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Hey cal please don’t take offense, I think u pretty knowledgeable guy and I want discuss things with u cause I learn from you. Thing is when I read that sentence , my mind interpreted both those quotes differently. When it said new thing  of old design . I wondered since they have never had an everstorm before , perhaps during past desolation’s the singers may have sung during high storms to achieve similar effects .

Sorry for my tone earlier. I'm working a ton of OT right now, and am prepping for a trip tomorrow and am just stressed out. Shouldn't have let that frustration boil out elsewhere. 

For that quote I take it for something as one thing. "Something new, but old of design" to me means that this has been worked towards for ages, but never achieved. 

8 minutes ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

As for this part the everstorm didn’t place Voidlight into gemstones. I don’t think that a singers gemheart containing a cognitive shadow from the void would not be infused .

Then it's not the gemstone. It's the Fused themselves receiving the Investiture. And if that's the case, why is the Everstorm needed, when we know it wasn't in the past? Odium is free and able to impart Voidlight to them, exactly as this epigraph says that he did in the past. 

Quote

Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her.
—From drawer 30-20, fourth emerald

 

Edited by Calderis
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Well That to me is Unbalanced . The Fused can just get Voidlight when they want it, can fly around all day and feet never has to touch the ground . While the KR have to carry pouches of gemstones and better not run out . Unless a Bondsmith is in the vicinity and can supercharge the KR , he is fighting from a disadvantage 

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1 minute ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

Well That to me is Unbalanced . The Fused can just get Voidlight when they want it, can fly around all day and feet never has to touch the ground . While the KR have to carry pouches of gemstones and better not run out . Unless a Bondsmith is in the vicinity and can supercharge the KR , he is fighting from a disadvantage 

Fused aren't supposed to be balanced with Knights Radiant.

Fused are more like Heralds.  In the past Heralds had direct access to stormlight.  

Presumably, since Honor is now splintered, they don't have the direct access they had before.  Odium is still around though, and likely has a way to provide it the same way Honor could.

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