Looking for both critical and creative minds to read and critique a play that I wrote

[Nathrangking Prime]

It would be an honor to have some of the more creative among us such as @Brandon Sanderson, @PeterAhlstrom etc... and the critically minded of whom @Delightful, @Kaymyth, @Kingsdaughter613, @Idealistic,, @Pinnacle-Ferring, @Curiosity, @Titan Arum, @Patar, @hoiditthroughthegrapevine, @Silva and those previously mentioned who are only a small sampling to take a look and let me know what you think, what works etc... I suppose that based on interest I could release more, but for now I will release the prologue and act 1 scene 1. I look forward to the feedback and I hope you enjoy it. This play happens to be an adaptation of the biblical book of Esther.

Disclaimer: Outside commentary as well minor dramatization are present both now and going forward.

 

Play Prologue and Act 1 Scene 1 (1).pdf

Edited November 9, 2018 by Nathrangking

[Enantiosis Artifabrian]

I am honored to be listed among your list of creative individuals. 

In regards to your play, I think it is pretty good. I don't know anything about playwriting but I was engaged. I would be interested to read more of it. Also if you could give an introduction to it (something that tells us what it's about, where it's set, etc) that would be great. I'm assuming by the names Haman and Mordechai that this takes place around the time of the biblical story of Esther.

[Nathrangking Prime]

5 minutes ago, TheVillageIdiot said:

I am honored to be listed among your list of creative individuals. 

In regards to your play, I think it is pretty good. I don't know anything about playwriting but I was engaged. I would be interested to read more of it. Also if you could give an introduction to it (something that tells us what it's about, where it's set, etc) that would be great. I'm assuming by the names Haman and Mordechai that this takes place around the time of the biblical story of Esther.

You would be correct as to the setting.

[Steeldancer Prime]

Why you listing me? I'm very limited in my creativity. But, I'll read it when I have a minute. 

[Kureshi Ironclaw Forescout]

Thanks for the mention. I had a quick look and I think it is pretty good. I don't know much about the idiosyncrasies of plays and I find that reading lines makes dialogue feel more stilted than it really is. I think what you're doing is really cool. I always meant to try writing a play in high school.

[StrikerEZ Mistborn]

Wow, thanks for considering me one of the more creative people on the Shard. I haven’t really done much except talk about what I want to do though. 

Anyway, I had a read over this and it seems pretty good. Like Kureshi said, I don’t know much about plays, but the dialogue felt a little exposition-y to me. It also felt a little forced at times. I’m sorry I can’t be more specific, there was nothing that really shot out to me like this, it was just kind of a general feeling from it. Overall, I think it’s really good and I’m excited to see more. 

[Toaster Retribution Prime]

Huh. Apparently I’m creative. Thanks!

Anyway, I read through it quickly, and I will agree with the above statements that the dialogue felt a little exposition-y. I think you might want to cut down the information you give a little. Hold back on some stuff until later. It became a tad too much, I felt. The two guests talked pretty long, and not much happened. So you might want to shorten that somewhat.

Also, I think you might want to give names to the two guests. It sounds like they will be important, and it is easier to connect with them if we know their names. 

I really like the things this sets up though. It feels like it could be really epic, and the deal struck with the sandal was cool, and intriguing, as is the fact that Haman considers himself a god.

I might have to read through parts of this again when I have more time (going to church in less than an hour). But good luck with it, and good work!

[Ammanas Rambleman]

@Nathrangking I must admit that I do not much experience with plays, but I made some changes to the dialogue, and a few changes to punctuation, that I feels improve the story. I feel like you may be on to something though and it shows promise! If you would like some inspiration, the language/style you seem to want to employ reminds me a little of Clark Ashton Smith. I will recommend and link you to one my personal favorites of his entitled, "The Coming of the White Worm."

http://www.eldritchdark.com/writings/short-stories/28/the-coming-of-the-white-worm

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Ammanas

[Oversleep Bondsmith]

I am not really experienced with plays so I am not sure if I can help much. That said, if you want my opinion, ask me again on July 16th. These next three weeks I have more work to do than I have time, so...

[Yezrien Cryptic]

I have a few comments.

• First, if you're serious about writing a play, you might want to work on the formatting. There are plenty of free programs that will do stageplay or screenplay format for you automatically. Or, if you want to keep using a simple word processor, keep in mind that you need to create clear, visible distinctions between the three kinds of text: character, dialog, and stage direction. Right now the characters are the same as the dialog, which can get confusing.
• Second, you're missing a lot of punctuation. Take a sentence like "He is a liar the troops were well fed." This is actually two sentences. I've made one bold and the other italic. If you're not going to put a proper sentence break between them, you at least need a comma, a semicolon, or an em-dash. (And well-fed should have a hyphen.)
• Show, don't tell. For instance, the Angel tells the audience that this story "has far more to it than meets the eye." If this is true, the audience doesn't need to be told. They will figure it out by watching the play. In general, you'll want to cut down all the exposition. Too many of these characters give long speeches to explain things. Try to convey only the information that's absolutely necessary, and in short, meaningful bursts, then get right to the point of the scene.

Have you written any more, or outlined the rest of the play? I'm curious to see where it's going.

[Jehoiada House Lord]

@Nathrangking I applaud you for your cleverness in switching the names back and forth in your original post.

I also agree with what Belzedar said. Definitely needs more show vs tell, but so far your doing well, keep working at it.

[Crucible of Shards Artifabrian]

@Nathrangking I'm honored to me mentioned, man! You have some clever quips in the dialogue there. Like many have said, I don't have much experience with plays. I feel like if I knew more about your intended audience I would be able to give a more helpful critique. My experience is more in writing essays and research than in theater. But the intended audience really does change how you write. Feel free to message me. I can't promise I'll answer quickly though.

[DrakeMarshall Dawnsinger]

Thank you for the mention, although I don't know a lot about play writing. *runs off to go read it

Nicely done. You have an interesting story going down here, I would be interested to see how it turns out.

Personally, I didn't find the exposition to be particularly an issue.

I will bring up though that you could tweak how people say things, to make it more in character. Right now, the word choice of all the characters feels very similar, and sometimes a little out of place in how formal it sounds. Maybe tailor the diction a little more closely to each character?

Just my two cents.

[Rebecca Stone Shaman]

I’m creative? Huh, okay. I’ll just roll with it.

So, I don’t know basically anything about plays. But I thought it was pretty interesting. I don’t have much to add though. I only really noticed what others have already pointed out. Such as how exposition-y it was. I also agree that the guests should have names and you need to differentiate between the character names and dialogue. And on page 4, are the guard and the soldier the same person? If so, the switch in their name is confusing.

And I guess that’s it! Hope this helps.

[Draginon Dakhor Monk]

I'm not really into reading scripts for plays, I do have Cursed Child and Shakespeare but for the most part I don't get into reading scripts since I lose focus and can't pay that much attention to the words. I'm just the person who'd rather see the finished product up on stage since you get more out of it with an actor saying the words.

Sorry I couldn't contribute much but this is out of my zone.

[Sunbird Lerasium Mistborn]

@Nathrangking Wow, I'm honored to be included on your list of creative critics. Thanks! I've read through the first few scenes you shared, and I hope my thoughts will be helpful...

I like the premise you've presented--a dramatic interpretation of a biblical story. It reminds me fondly of the musical Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat.

I also like the idea of the angelic narrator, but I think you've gone a little overboard with lots of telling and not enough showing. Since a play is a very visual format, you have more freedom to show than if you were writing a novel. Make use of stage directions and imagined scenery. Also, I have to say that I appreciate your pun in the angel's intro between "a journey into the distant past" and "battles which have long since passed." Another thing I enjoyed about the prologue was the suspense of seeing Haman read the agreement on the sandal and obviously freak out about it. That's a great way to end the scene--leaving the audience wondering exactly what made Haman so upset. I trust it will be relevant later in the play. (It's been a while since I brushed up on Esther; forgive me.)

My main criticism is an echo of what others have already mentioned: Much of the dialogue feels a bit like an info-dump. The characters seem to be telling each other things they should both already know, purely for the audience's benefit. Try showing the situation more through action rather than talk--for the prologue, maybe include brief snippets of soldiers in the camps arguing over scarce food or getting into fistfights because they're restless. For the angel's intro to the feast/party, I'd suggest shortening the narration to a summary of the war's end and the reason for the party. Then "set the scene" with visuals of the moat, queues of people, tables of food, etc., rather than having the angel describe all of it verbally. Maybe add stage directions to show one of those cliched flip calendars that has each day on a different page to show how ridiculously long the party has lasted, if you're okay with a little bit of humorous anachronism.

I'm definitely interested in seeing where this project goes, and giving feedback if you decide you still want it from me. Subscribing to this thread!

[Young Bard Gerontarch]

On 6/27/2018 at 5:18 AM, Jehoiada said:

@Nathrangking I applaud you for your cleverness in switching the names back and forth in your original post.

Ah, right. Clever, you sly flatterer.  I was wondering why I was mentioned here.

OK, I started responding to this before I went back and saw it was based off of a section of the Bible - since it's an adaptation, that changes how I respond to some of what you've written.

First off, I want to second what everyone else has said about showing, not telling. Also, try and add a bit more of a distinctive voice into each character - what makes them different from those around them, and how can that be shown through their actions and speech patterns. Your language feels kind of stilted - contractions and figures of speech are actually your friend here to try and make your dialogue feel more 'natural'. Also, you can try and trust a bit more in using subtext to your advantage - if the audience knows the guards are worried about food because of Haman's incompetent leadership, a slightly strained conversation between the Guard and Haman can just as easily say all the things you want to say without pausing the proceedings to explain things to the audience.

In the prologue, you make Haman seem completely incompetent, but he ends up being the 'villain' in the story of Esther. Making your villain seem incompetent and buffoonish undermines the tension that your audience might feel throughout the play, so I'd advise you try and think of a slightly more imposing characterisation of Haman, so that there's more tension to the story.

Actually, you're two scenes in, and you haven't introduced the main character of the story, Esther herself, which is generally frowned upon unless it's for a specific reason. Macbeth is introduced two scenes late, for example, but that's because they spend both of those scenes talking about Macbeth and building him up as a character, so that's OK. The reason why this is so important is because your opening impressions of the play or movie are meant to give you a sense of what the play or movie is all about in terms of genre and theme, so your audience knows what to expect and look out for. For this, I'd say the major theme of Esther is discrimination and persecution (a sadly relevant modern topic, as well). Try and think about how what you're writing, especially in the opening scenes, can contribute to at least two or three of: characterisation for someone (not just through what they say, but in how they say it - speech patterns, etc.), the plot, the themes, and the worldbuilding/setting/backdrop (things that aren't essential to the plot of the story, but helps to make the world of the story feel natural and lived-in.)

A quick warning ahead about how you portray Vashti defying the king's word - the way this is portrayed in the Bible has certainly not aged well, so you'll need to be careful how you go about portaying this.

I encourage you to keep writing this - this kind of advice is stuff that can really only get ingrained into you via practice, and I'm still not as good at it as I'd like to be. Going ahead, I'd say the most important thing to focus on is doubling down on characterisation. Who are these people? What are they like? How would you feel bumping into them on the street? How do you want the characters to (emotionally) react to these characters? Are they supposed to hate the character with a fiery burning passion? Are we supposed to feel sorry for them? You want someone who is highly authoratitive to talk? Give them a really confident kind of voice. You want them to be seem as incompetent? They're constantly changing their mind, saying one thing and then back-tracking and saying something else, then try to leave via stage left only to change their minds and leave via stage right. You want people to see someone as malicious? They're cruel to those around them, they say one thing and then do another the next scene, things like that.

[The Invested Beard Listener]

I agree with most of what has already been said. Definitely look into finding the correct format for your script. Work on variations of the lines using contractions and more casual speech to bring a sense of every day conversation into it. Only go formal when the character needs it, like the angel or the king. I also agree that Esther should be introduced in this first scene after the prologue if she is to be the main character of the play, even if it's in passing.

Otherwise, keep it up! It's great to see a play set in this story, it's one of my favorites.

[A Budgie Forger]

I agree about the dialogue- it feels rather wooden, and there's too much exposition.
Seems interesting, although I know nothing about the biblical story behind it.

[Ammanas Rambleman]

So, in my personal opinion, there is a place for casual dialogue, but using more formal and flowery language is also a great way to present a story. I will include a example from one of the great world classics Oedipus Rex as a example below.

Also here is a example from the beginning of the excellent Death of Malygris by Smith:

At the hour of interlunar midnight, when lamps burned rarely and far apart in Susran, and slow-moving autumn clouds had muffled the stars, King Gadeiron sent forth into the sleeping city twelve of his trustiest mutes. Like shadows gliding through oblivion, they vanished upon their various ways; and each of them, returning presently to the darkened palace, led with him a shrouded figure no less discreet and silent than himself.

In this manner, groping along tortuous alleys, through blind cypress-caverns in the royal gardens, and down subterranean halls and steps, twelve of the most powerful sorcerers of Susran were brought together in a vault of oozing, death-gray granite, far beneath the foundations of the palace.

The entrance of the vault was guarded by earth-demons that obeyed the arch-sorcerer, Maranapion, who had long been the king's councillor. These demons would have torn limb from limb any who came unprepared to offer them a libation of fresh blood. The vault was lit dubiously by a single lamp, hollowed from a monstrous garnet, and fed with vipers' oil. Here Gadeiron, crownless, and wearing sackcloth dyed in sober purple, awaited the wizards on a seat of limestone wrought in the form of a sarcophagus. Maranapion stood at his right hand, immobile, and swathed to the mouth in the garments of the tomb. Before him was a tripod of orichalchum, rearing shoulder-high; and on the tripod, in a silver socket, there reposed the enormous blue eye of a slain Cyclops, wherein the archimage was said to behold weird visions. On this eye, gleaming balefully under the garnet lamp, the gaze of Maranapion was fixed with death-like rigidity.

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by Ammanas

[Kidpen Midnight Essence]

I'm critically minded? Huh. Are you just looking around and tagging the people you see posting a lot? That would explain my mention. Either way, I'll give it a read. Keep in mind that I have never even seen a play, much less critiqued one.

I enjoyed it, generally. I do agree that there might be a bit to much dialog that's talking directly to the audience. A decent amount of the angel's dialog is fine, but the characters turning to the audience feels weird. Unless that's something that happens normally in plays, in which case you should ignore me.

You're also missing quite a few commas. Not a big deal, but still.

[Argent Splinter]

I am afraid this is not something I can help you with, I wouldn't know where to begin. 

[ScarletSabre Silent Gatherer]

Did not expect to be in a list like that, but I'll do my best to look this over when I get a chance ^-^

[Nerd3.14159265358979 Silent Gatherer]

I liked it, overall, and I would say a lot more, but what I have has already been covered.

[ccstat Savant]

I haven't looked at it yet. What is the timeframe in which you are hoping for feedback? Work is extremely busy this month and I doubt I will be able to make time for this until things calm down a bit. If the timing works out, it might make more sense for me to read through a later draft after you've Incorporated some of the suggestions from other readers.