Tempus Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) In searching for some other quotes, I came across something that might be an interesting tidbit. The wording is what sparked my mind. “Others may be detestable, but they do not dabble in arts that could return Desolation to this world.” - Darkness (suspected of being Nin/Nalan) Hypothesis: The Desolation is a world-hopping event, and either creates a breach directly to Braize, or transfers things from Braize to Roshar. Evidence: • Odium is suspected to be located on Braize, also called Damnation by Vorinism • The Heralds are tortured in Damnation, or Braize • The return of the Heralds occurs at the same time as the Desolation • The Desolations are preceded by the arrival of a previously unknown on Roshar creature known as the Midnight Essence, seemingly unrelated to the Desolation • The True Desolation is related to a giant storm, the Everstorm, which could have investiture powers on the same scale as the Highstorms • The Spren are particularly wary of the Desolation, and sensitive to it's arrival. Spren live in the cognitive realm, the known method of worldhopping • The Voidbringers were said to be cast back to the 'Tranquiline Halls', a Vorinism belief that corresponds potentially to Yolen (the origin of humanity) • The Odium spren began to appear around the time of the Desolation, and Odium is believed to be on Braize Possible Conclusions: It seems likely that the Desolation itself, in whatever particular form it takes, is a worldhopping event. It is possible that the Desolation is simply the opening of a corridor between Braize and Roshar, causing a variety of creatures to appear in Roshar to wreak havoc. As we have very little specifics about what the Desolation itself is, a more complete conclusion cannot be drawn. Edit: Colloary It strikes me that I missed a vital implication. If the Parshendi are in fact Voidbringers, and the Voidbringers came/were driven to another world at the end of most desolations, it seems logical that the Parshendi were in fact the native race of Braize, not Roshar as some have theorized. They crossed during the world hopping event of the desolations. That would leave the Aimians (confirmed by WoB to be not-human) as the native people of Roshar. Edited March 19, 2014 by Tempus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Now that I see the quote, Darknesses line about returning desolations to this world sounds significant. We know that he is aware of at least one other Shardworld (Nalthis). The only other location where Odium has shattered Shards is Sel, and there we had the Reod. Maybe the Everstorm is the form the Desolation takes on Roshar, while other worlds have different equivalents? The Deepness wasn't caused by Odium, but it might be an example of a Desolation-level event on Scadrial. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted March 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I added what seems to me to be an obvious conclusion if the theory proves true: Parshendi are the native people of Braize. Incidentally to your point about the Ruin-caused Deepness, another big event that caused something important to go wrong was the Reod, no? World-scale natural disasters causing unanticipated trouble might just be a Sanderson writing trope. It doesn't really support or disprove the above theory either way, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Now that I see the quote, Darknesses line about returning desolations to this world sounds significant. We know that he is aware of at least one other Shardworld (Nalthis). The only other location where Odium has shattered Shards is Sel, and there we had the Reod. There is nothing to prove that Darkness knows about Nalthis, only that he possessed Nightblood somehow. Vasher may have showed up and ended up in a fight with Darkness on Roshar for some reason that we don't know yet. I added what seems to me to be an obvious conclusion if the theory proves true: Parshendi are the native people of Braize. Incidentally to your point about the Ruin-caused Deepness, another big event that caused something important to go wrong was the Reod, no? World-scale natural disasters causing unanticipated trouble might just be a Sanderson writing trope. It doesn't really support or disprove the above theory either way, though. The earthquake and chasm which lead to the Reod was caused naturally as far as we know right now. It isn't related to the splintering of Devotion by Odium because Elantris takes place only a few hundred years before Way of Kings, but Odium has been confined to the Greater Roshar system for "millenia" according to the Response. I'll be surprised if it ended up actually being natural, but so far as we know it was/is. All other "world spanning disasters" aren't natural in origin (note I don't consider a highstorm to be a "disaster", just a natural feature of Roshar...) the deepness is Ruin, the ashmounts are caused by Rashek, the Everstorm is Odium rocking his power. I do agree that the Desolations are world hopping events, but I'm fairly certain that they are confined to the Greater Roshar system (at least ever since the Oathpact was taken). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 My original thought was that they were confined to the Greater Roshar system, and a maximum of three planets, yes. The bit about disasters is an interesting parallel, but likely unrelated or at least not directly related. The known Vorin mythos supports a maximum of three planets. It is quite possible the theory could hold true for just two planets, Roshar and Braize. Darkness may or may not know about Nalthis. The Heralds, however, do know about Braize, all too well. And thus a suspected Herald would have a very good point of reference to comment on multiple worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramble Thorn Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Darkness may or may not know about Nalthis. The Heralds, however, do know about Braize, all too well. And thus a suspected Herald would have a very good point of reference to comment on multiple worlds. To be fair, how well the heralds know Braize is up for debate. They know centuries of torture there. Braize could actually have a very good theatre district they have never been to because of their prior engagements with hooks and whips and searing flesh and OH MY GOD PLEASE LET THE PAIN STOP! The real torture might me there is Cosmere version of "Much Ado About Nothing" that is so freaking amazing it has been in constant play at the Braizian Grand Palazzio for the last 10,000 years, and none of the Heralds were ever allowed to see it. Just Sayin. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 So worldhopping has something to do with the Desolations? Interesting... if I recall correctly, Syl took an instant dislike to Hoid because he was "strange." Could that possibly be connected with this theory? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I have just assumed that Syl's dislike if Hoid was related to her ability to sense his other Investitures... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 The real torture might me there is Cosmere version of "Much Ado About Nothing" that is so freaking amazing it has been in constant play at the Braizian Grand Palazzio for the last 10,000 years, and none of the Heralds were ever allowed to see it. Taln is such a philistine. So worldhopping has something to do with the Desolations? Interesting... if I recall correctly, Syl took an instant dislike to Hoid because he was "strange." Could that possibly be connected with this theory? Not necessary that worldhopping has to do with Desolations. Just that the Desolations do not originate on Roshar. Sanderson is far too logical for things like Midnight Essence or voidspren to just 'disappear' for a couple thousand years and no one happens to find them. A number of events such as those or the torture of the Heralds, and the Vorin religious dogma make slightly more sense if the Desolations originate on another planet are brought to Roshar periodically. It seems to fit, but the details we have are insufficient to draw enough conclusions about the exact nature of the Desolation at this time to give this mini-theory enough meat to be a full theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Considering that they seem to be magically animated elementals, and the landscape of Roshar is slowly covered by crem, they would eventually simply seem to be oddly shaped rocks - and that's only the ones that are made of Essences that tend to stick around. What might happen to the Midnight Essences or the air/fire/oil ones? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHyde Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 This doesn't rule out Desolations being world-hopping events, but for what it's worth, Brandon said at the signing last night that there were no Desolations before there were humans on Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 May not be relevant but- is the term Desolation is a general, cosmere term for what's happening, or a specific Rosharan one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 If the Heralds have to willingly go back to Braize (Prologue of WoK), does that mean that they've figured out worldhopping? I mean, it would make sense, after a few thousand years of living and having at least two orders capable of it. It would provide an explanation for any cosmere-awareness that wouldn't normally fit their profiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levian Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I am of the mindset that the Voidbringers are merely byproducts of Odium Spren inhabiting different things/creatures/people. I'm inclined to agree that the Odium Spren are locked away on Braize with Odium until a Desolation occurs, so in that sense it could be considered a "world hopping" event. However, I don't agree with the bit about the Everstorm. I'm pretty sure that the Everstorm is unique to this Desolation, which is why it is claimed as being so different from previous ones. Because of this I definitely don't think there's an Everstorm on Braize that comes to Roshar when the Desolation happens, if that is what you are saying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 The Everstorm is unique to the 'True Desolation', yes. I wasn't implying that there were two planets with world spanning storms! I can't really expand more on this theory until we know more about the Desolations, which will presumably come as they uncover the knowledge of Urithiru in the next book. That's why I decided to call it a mini-theory; I sadly wasn't able to draw any conclusions about the exact nature of the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levian Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Sadly that's the way of our theories. Being given so little information to work with, most of the time it's almost pure speculation with a sentence here and there that may back it up or give some credence. Still, I'm definitely of the mind that what ever is the main source of the Desolations (Odium Spren in my mind) aren't of Roshar, but appear on Roshar when a Desolation happens. I'm definitely with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 This doesn't rule out Desolations being world-hopping events, but for what it's worth, Brandon said at the signing last night that there were no Desolations before there were humans on Roshar. Makes sense... humans probably arrived/created with Honor/Cultivation. Odium would've had no reason to even think about Roshar before Humans. OR as some have speculated in another thread the Secret that caused the Recreance could be that desolations are caused by Honor/Cultivation in some way... so they still wouldn't have been there pre-humans. Unless - humans showed on Roshar prior to a Shard being present, in which case it could be an interesting implication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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