whattheHoid Posted June 8, 2018 Report Share Posted June 8, 2018 I wasn't sure whether to post this in the Mistborn or WOT category, but I had a thought. How cool would it be to have to awesome wildcards like Kelsier and Mat meet up!? I feel they would either become enemies or they would team up and cause havok all over the Cosmere or on Randland! I think they would make a hilariously, aggravating team together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Cole Posted June 8, 2018 Report Share Posted June 8, 2018 Mat would win, 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whattheHoid Posted June 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2018 Yeah, upon reflection Mat would win, but I don't think Kelsier would go down easily. He is the Survivor after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace21 Posted June 8, 2018 Report Share Posted June 8, 2018 Not sure if this is a "wouldnt this be cool" or a fight thread so I'll do both. I think it wouod be hilarious, at keast fir a while, not sure well much they' get along in the long term though. If the fight is just straight h2h combat with favoyred weapons then Matt probably wins. If Kelsier has basic metals he woukd destroy Matt. If Kel had atium then it wouldnt even be a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted June 9, 2018 Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 With or without Allomancy ? In before Kelsier's steelpush/ironpulls goes awry cause taveran luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whattheHoid Posted June 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) Let's make it real interesting- with Allomancy after all Mat has countless memories of battles, so he already has a huge advantage. Edit-this is more of a semi serious inquiry that I also thought could be funny. Edited June 9, 2018 by whattheHoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Before Pancakes Posted June 9, 2018 Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 Is Mat still Ta'veren for this comparison? That + the luck was extremely thick plot armour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted June 9, 2018 Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 Iron and steel rely on physics. A metal storm flying around would require things actually hitting all of the pieces to prevent them from hitting Mat. Luck can make some crazy things happen, but it shouldn't alter physics themselves. That said, I think Kel would take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whattheHoid Posted June 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2018 Yes Mat is still ta'veren while Kelsier is still an Allomancer. The scenario I have in my head is Mat is drinking at a bar in Scadrial because through some crazy cosmic occurrence he got there. And Kelsier comes walking in and from there, for the sake of this scenario, they get into a bar fight that gets way out of hand real fast. Although I'd like to think they'd become if not friends crew members at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 Rand(pre-Memories of Light , cause he the broken during that book though) probably is a better match since Mat kinda does not have powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+hwiles Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Calderis said: Iron and steel rely on physics. A metal storm flying around would require things actually hitting all of the pieces to prevent them from hitting Mat. Luck can make some crazy things happen, but it shouldn't alter physics themselves. That said, I think Kel would take it. I mean...Major WoT spoiler... Spoiler Ta'veren are hypothesized by Rand, the Dragon, the savior of the Universe who is spun into existence when it is close to being unraveled, to be the Pattern's systemic response to legitimate threats. Sanderson has gone on record saying he can't confirm what the source of Rand's awesome reality-bending powers at the end of Memory of Light is, but I believe in a Q&A he tacitly acknowledge that his personal theory is that Rand became the most, or one of the most, "awake" Dragon's ever spun into reality; meaning that his knowledge of his ability to shape reality for the purpose of saving reality hit a critical point whereby his will is literally as powerful as the physics that govern existence. He could wish people away, start fires with a whim, or conceivably rewrite the past with a thought because every thread of the pattern is directly tied to his. It is speculated in world that ta'veren are essentially the immune response of the pattern when someone (maybe not always the Dark One) is close to gaining a critical influence over something that would permanently derail reality. They can be killed, they can fail their quests, and they can even make things worse for the pattern in general (see: Arthur Hawkwing), but when push comes to shove and the pattern's back is against the wall, they are the ultimate deus ex machina. Pre-Last Battle, it can be argued that Matt was literally un-killable because Rand truly believed he needed him to win. The Dragon can't lose; even if he dies the Pattern just goes into overtime and resurrects him; it even gives him his memories back if it thinks they will help. Anyone the Dragon regards as critical cannot ever die until they stop being critical (see: Moraine) (also see: Egwene when Rand stopped agreeing with her directives). Matt can't lose because even if Kelsier kills him then a stray bolt of balefire will his Kelsier and allow Matt to come back to life again. Edit: I feel like my original argument reduced the story to sounding arbitrary and predictable, but it's actually my all time favorite. There are deeper morals about balance and good and evil never being able to fully conquer each other that I severely under represented. 3/5, would rewrite if had time. Edited June 10, 2018 by hwiles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace21 Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 If Kelsier has Allomancy he wins. WoT spoliers Spoiler Whether or not a Ta'veren can manipulate reality or not is irrelevant. Even if that is how Rand lights his pipe at the end of the book Matt has never been able to do that. I also seriously doubt that nothing could go wrong if Rand needed it to win. Matt lived because of plot armor and luck, if he is on Scadrial then the first no longer applies. Matt has no way of protecting hinself from Kel's flying pieces if metal and can't match the physical capabilities of pewter. Thousands of years of memories can't overcome that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Before Pancakes Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Jace21 said: If Kelsier has Allomancy he wins. WoT spoliers Hide contents Whether or not a Ta'veren can manipulate reality or not is irrelevant. Even if that is how Rand lights his pipe at the end of the book Matt has never been able to do that. I also seriously doubt that nothing could go wrong if Rand needed it to win. Matt lived because of plot armor and luck, if he is on Scadrial then the first no longer applies. Matt has no way of protecting hinself from Kel's flying pieces if metal and can't match the physical capabilities of pewter. Thousands of years of memories can't overcome that. Mat's plot armor was in-universe though; so like allomancy it still has a lot of merit to include it with his abilities. I don't think it's safe to say Mat would immediately lose just because his opponent is physically more capable and/or had an extreme advantage like steel pushing and iron pulling. Mat's plot basically consisted of surviving that, and trouble with women. At the end of the day though, the whole idea of Mat vs. Kelsier is pretty hard to determine, because they both seem near unkillable, even when they technically die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whattheHoid Posted June 10, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 (edited) Perhaps Rand would be a better match, but Mat is so much more fun. Mat always has a trick or surprise up his sleeve. He survives. Out of the 3 ta'veren, Mat surprised me the most. That, in my opinion, is why Mat and Kelsier would be more "evenly" matched. Edited June 10, 2018 by whattheHoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goody153 Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 Rand vs Kelsier is actually not feasible. Rand basically just points and clicks people to death (point his hand then kill them with balefire or something) unless ofc it's the post-era 1 Kelsier with the speed compounding then it's a little tougher to tell since Rand can just mass AOE but Kelsier still murders him outright just through speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 So Rand vs Rashek then. Mat v Kelsier is hard because Mat has so much metal on his person he literally could not come close to Kelsier. Forewarned, give Mat Obsidian and a non-metal staff and the fight gets much closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace21 Posted June 10, 2018 Report Share Posted June 10, 2018 The only plot-armor Matt officially has in-universe is extreme luck. I can't see a way that even Matt's luck can stop Kel's swarm of fast moving pieces of metal. Aside from luck he has the medallion, which doesnt help against allomantic steel or iron and his memories, which are of limited use against an opponent with abilities he has never seen before. Pure combat skill, Matt would probably win even if Kel has pewter but if you allow steel and iron I dont see how Matt can take it. For Rashek vs Rand one thing is certain, it wouldn't take long. Compounded Steel and Gold probably give it to Rashek but I could see that one going either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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